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Well this thread was dissapointing.. competitive 1850 can be done im sure...

Large squad of nurgle bikers, daemon prince with black mace, cultists in a huge squad, multiple heldrakes, defiler

Defiler?

Defliers are cool, pie plates and OK in CC.

Also 3 heldrakes, 3 squads of oblits, chaos lord and scorc on bike with MoN, maxed squad of MoN spawn, and anywhere from 60+ cultists.

That's a good place to stop.

Ok lets try this one.

+++ 1850 csm & D (1850pts) +++
+++ 1850pt Chaos Space Marines: Supplement - Crimson Slaughter (2014) v4, Codex: Chaos Daemons 2013 Roster (Primary Detachment, Allied Detachment)) +++

Selections:

Chaos Space Marines: Supplement - Crimson Slaughter (2014) v4 (Primary Detachment) Selections:

+ HQ +

* Be'lakor, The Dark Master
(Daemon, Eternal Warrior, Fearless, Lord of Torment, Psyker (Mastery Level 3), Shadow Form)


* Chaos Lord
(Champion of Chaos, Fearless, Independent Character)
Aura of dark glory, Jump Pack, Melta bombs
* Power Armour
Bolt Pistol, Power Weapon


+ Troops +

* Chaos Cultists
(Champion of Chaos)
29x Autopistol, 29x Squad models (champion included)
* Champion's upgrade
Cultist Champion's Shotgun


* Chaos Cultists
(Champion of Chaos)
Champion's upgrade, 10x Squad models (champion included)


+ Fast Attack +

* Chaos Spawn
(Fear, Fearless, Mutated Beyond Reason, Rage, Random Attacks, Very Bulky)
Mark of Nurgle, 5x Spawn


* Heldrake
(Daemon, Daemonforge, It Will Not Die, Meteroric Descent)
Baleflamer


* Heldrake
(Daemon, Daemonforge, It Will Not Die, Meteroric Descent)
Baleflamer


+ Heavy Support +

* Obliterators
(Bulky, Daemon, Deep Strike, Obliterator Weapons, Slow and Purposeful)
Mark of Nurgle, Obliterator


* Obliterators
(Bulky, Daemon, Deep Strike, Obliterator Weapons, Slow and Purposeful)
Mark of Nurgle, Obliterator


Codex: Chaos Daemons 2013 (Allied Detachment) Selections:

+ (No Category) +

+ HQ +

* Lord of Change
(Change Discipline, Daemonic Instability, Deep Strike)
D6 Exalted Daemonic Reward (Exalted Rewards, Hellforged Artefacts), Psyker Level 3
* Daemon of Tzeentch
(Hatred (Daemon of Nurgle), Re-roll all Saving throws results of 1, Tzeentch Psyker Powers)
Daemon (5+ Invulnerable Save, Fear)


+ Troops +

* Plaguebearers of Nurgle
(Daemonic Instability, Deep Strike)
10x Plaguebearers
* Daemon of Nurgle
(Hatred (Daemon of Tzeencth), Shrouded, Slow & Purposeful)
Daemon (5+ Invulnerable Save, Fear)


+ Fast Attack +

* Flesh Hounds of Khorne
(Daemonic Instability, Deep Strike, Scout)
10x Flesh Hounds
* Daemon of Khorne
(Furious Charge, Hatred (Daemon of Slaanesh))
Daemon (5+ Invulnerable Save, Fear)

Heres what i came up with, lots of msu, lots of shots, What do you think?

abaddon - 265

x6 (5) Chosen - 110
- meltagun
- autocannon

x2 Heldrake -170

x3 (2) Oblits -152
-MoN

(3) terminators - 110
- x3 combi meltas

As much as i like abaddon n his overt chosens, i think typhus, zombies, and plague marines are better.

OH god, please don't copy paste army builders please hahah

Yeah I feel this thread isn't needed. CSM have been out for a long time and have been pretty fully explored.

Abby has his place as the #1 IC in CC out there. The only single models that'll beat him are characters like daemon princes and swarmlords. Theres a 20 some page mathhammer thread here somewhere that proves it. Throw him with some FNP slaanesh termies and hes pretty great.

Aside from that, your standard comp list is going to be

Typhus
Plague Marines
Zombies
Heldrakes
Obliterators

Additionally, biker and spawn squads escorting a biker lord of nurgle has been proven effective.

Although I don't see it used often, I feel Be'Lakor, A tzeentch prince with black mace, and a Khorne list with Axe of Blind Fury, as well as 2 or 3 heldrakes could do well. Problem is then you don't get access to Power Armor troops that are good, so that means you take lotsa cultists.

The last two 1850 point CSM lists I fielded looked something like...


Huron
Chaos Lord - MoK, vets, sigil, Axe of Blind Fury

10x Terminators - MoK, IoW, champ with fist, 3x c.meltas, 3x c.plasmas, chainfist, 2x reaper autocannons

20x Khorne berzerkers - IoW, champ with fist
20x Khorne berzerkers - IoW, champ with fist

3x Obliterators - MoK


and a version that swapped out the khorne lord for a sorcerer, and the berzerkers for MoK CSM with gun upgrades.

The jist is that huron infiltrates stuff forward, and then terminators and/or obliterators deepstrike on top of my opponent. A few times huron made terminators infiltrate.

Anyways, this army exists to rush forward and beat face, of course. As for missions, it doesn't care about missions. It is virtually immune to losing first blood, which means if I can force the game onto secondaries, I win, because I'll have first blood, and very likely linebreaker (and I dont' think I ever lost huron in any of the games I played).

I think earlier in the edition Typhus/plagues/zombies were great, and plagues still are, but bc of how the game is changing they just don't do enough anymore, you need units that are able to hit and make an impact early on in the game, zombies just don't offer much other than bodies which won't win you games alone. and plagues aren't useful until turn 2/3+. Id rather have the firepower.

On a side note, if chosen become troops, wether its the BL supplement or through abby, do i still have the option to take them in the elites spot too? so (not saying i would do this) up to 9 units of chosen?

there really isn't a need to go over this, most of its been said.

to sum it up, HQs:
huron
typhus
princes
abby
sorcs
lords

elites:
helbrute formations
literally nothing else.

troops:
cultists
plague marines
noise marines
zombies

fast attack: (our best slot)
baleflamer drakes
mon bikes
mon spawn
(imo your army will be built around your fast attack choices)

heavy support:
mon oblits
maybe cheap predators, maybe

then you ally in demons.

be'lakor is worth noting as an HQ to be used as either CSM or DoC.

ill respectfully disagree on some of your choices. MoN bikes are a waste of points, Havocs are completely viable options as are raptors and terminators, and you don't have to revolve the rest of your army around the fast attacks (Heldrakes),Actually I'm 100% we can make a good list right here without them. We have allies, we can ally with our supplements that also have some good choices, We have other options lets give it a try.

Did you say competitive? Should be possible.

I know a guy playing Helldrakes, Maulerfiends, allied with Necrons (two Night Scythes) and he's doing quite well with them.

phempchildrenbob wrote:
ill respectfully disagree on some of your choices. MoN bikes are a waste of points, Havocs are completely viable options as are raptors and terminators, and you don't have to revolve the rest of your army around the fast attacks (Heldrakes),Actually I'm 100% we can make a good list right here without them. We have allies, we can ally with our supplements that also have some good choices, We have other options lets give it a try.

mon bikes aren't a waste of points

havocs are terrible, take obliterateors
raptors are terrible, take drakes spawn or bikes.
terminators are teriible.

you asked to make csm competitive, you were given your best bets to do do. good luck respectfully making a csm competitive list with raptors and havocs, instead of oblits and drakes.


let me know how that goes.

lol your joking right? Have you won any tournaments before? Theres no way you could with that simple mindset. Think outside the box, (sigh) internet

---------------------------- , its not hard its called tactics,and strategy and I'm from a very competitive area, you can win games against some really tough armies, some harder than others, but it isn't as hopeless as people on the net think (take typhus spawn zombies plagues heldrakes and thats it) that midset doesn't win you games and definatley doesn't win tournaments especially with the new codecs that are out you have to learn to adapt. Im speaking from one chaos player to another

sigh, you can lead a horse to water.

I've never even played 40k, i stumbled across this forum looking bbw porn, and just haven't left yet!

115 points for 4 auto cannon havocs isn't effective? You think a predator is a better choice than that?

1+ for internet i give up lol

well the thing i like over nurgle bikers is slanassh bikers because you can get feel no pain with them,donot forget that.get the bearer of excess and you get feel no pain with slanassh biers.

phempchildrenbob wrote:
115 points for 4 auto cannon havocs isn't effective? You think a predator is a better choice than that?

1+ for internet i give up lol

there was a maybe beside the predatot, only because its cheap.
i would never take one in a competitive environment personally, i would use mon oblits.

and maybe I've come across wrong (I'm sure i have), so ill say I'm sorry for that. my frustration isn't with you, but the csm codex itself. it sucks. i feel pigeon holed into taking the cookie cuter units, that have been tested by others and myself. i want raptors and warp talons to be good, i want mutilators and terminators to be good, i want the defiler and 'fiends' to be good. but they are lacking and fall short in comparison to other units in their shared foc slot.

hell, I'd be happy if plain old evil marines were useful.

so from one chaos player to the other, death to the false emperor!!

good luck, and let the galaxy burn!

Of course! Its all love brother

i honestly think theres no hope for warp talons or mutilators but ill stay on topic and create some lists

Heres one using havocs:

Chaos lord - 170
- MoN
- L/C
- P.fist
- meltabombs
- sigil
- bike

x6(5) csm - 135
- meltagun
- combi melta
- meltabomb
- rhino

(5) MoN spawn -180

x2 Heldrakes

x3 (5) Havocs - 115
- x4 autocannons

total: 1845

Anti infantry, anti vehicle, anti flyer, Lots of target saturation and a solid HQ. Thoughts?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
next lets try and build one WITHOUT heldrakes

it looks good, the rhinos are firstblood (our group also plays a house rule, we call nemesis, whatever unit draws first blood is also worth a vp, i don't remember where i saw that being used, but i loved it and we haven't looked back)

the lord and spawn are a hard nut to crack, i also like lvl 3 sorc on bike unmarked.

i personally would either drop one rhino, drop the upgrades on one squad and make a baby sitter unit. maybe an adl with quad gun to work with your havocs?

This is pretty crazy:

x2 lord - 170
- MoN
- LC
- PF
- m bombs
- sigil
- bike

x2 (5) Spawn - 180
- MoN

Heldrake - 170

x4 (10) cultists -50

x3 (3) oblits - 228
- MoN

1754- not even 1850 yet


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ADL would go good w/ that list, all behind the aegis thats 24 auto shots a turn?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And another one, this one has NO fast attacks O.o but fills up the elites:

D.Prince - 265
- MoT
- wings
- armour
- blackmace

D. Prince - 250
- MoT
- Wings
- armour
- burning brand

x3 (3) termintators - 110
- combi meltas

x4 (5) csm - 135
- meltagun
- combimelta
- meltabomb

x2 (10) cultists- 50

x3 (5) havocs - 115
- x4 autocannons

total - 1830

i like the second list better, because i like oblits more than havocs. and i know you're wanting to use drakes less, but I'd make one of those lords a sorcerer on bike, and put them both in one squad of spawn, and add a second drake.

but i like the second list as it is too.

I would Drop Meltabombs on the Lord for Blight Grenades.

At 1850 I run khorne lord on jugger, big cultist blob, 2 10 man cultists squads, 2 drakes, 5 nurgle spawn, allied destroyer lord, 6 wraiths, 2 night scythes with 5 warriors, annihilation barge, aegis line with comms.
Other chaos units I would consider are typhus and zombies, sorcerers, nurgle oblits, maulerfiends or forgefiends. Nothing else in the codex really cuts it as competitve. Definitely not the elite choices... Chaos without allies struggles to be competitive at 1850, as you only have 3 FA slots and the troops can't kill anything.

 zachwho wrote:
sigh, you can lead a horse to water.

I've never even played 40k, i stumbled across this forum looking bbw porn, and just haven't left yet!

LOL this is great

GW Is like cash porn so it works.