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Made in us
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc




The darkness between the stars

 Melissia wrote:
 Exergy wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
Orks succeeded of course, but that's because Orks always succeed.


Goal posts move closer for orks sometimes
Not really. Orks have very clear goalposts, as stated in their codices-- they like to fight. As long as they have war, they win, since war is all they want.


To be fair, Melissia has a point. From a guard point, you'd say that it was a failure but... look at it! The orks, the same orks, every single day get to fight. Death? That inconvenient factor that means they can't fight anymore? Gone. It is the truest victory for Orks possible

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Made in us
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

 Melissia wrote:
As long as they have war, they win, since war is all they want.
Unless theyre fighting Tau, in which case they die pissed off and buttmad because the Tau refuse to fight Orks the way they think war should be fought.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/04 22:08:07


 
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought





 Melissia wrote:
 Exergy wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
Orks succeeded of course, but that's because Orks always succeed.


Goal posts move closer for orks sometimes
Not really. Orks have very clear goalposts, as stated in their codices-- they like to fight. As long as they have war, they win, since war is all they want.


Technically speaking, those Orks stuck in the Warp on the Daemon World owned by Khorne are in absolute heaven. They may always lose, but the fight never ends. Khorne and Orks are truly a match made in heaven.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/04 22:21:46


“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter




Seattle

... and mighty C'thulhu is sleeping. He's not forced to fail because victory means non-existence. He will rise and consume humanity- something Chaos simply cannot do.


In 40K terms, Cthulhu is a powerfully-psychic Xeno from a long-dead civilization, but is otherwise not particularly powerful in the setting. Things like Cthulhu reside in the Ghoul Stars, and are kept there (and have been kept there) by a line of Space Marine-held Fortress Worlds at its rim.

Also, R'lyeh was supposedly sunken in the Pacific ocean. In the era of 40K, there are no more oceans on Terra. R'lyeh isn't/wasn't there. So either the God-Emperor (or some other figure lost to the mists of time) destroyed the Sleeping Lord sometime prior to the Unification Wars on Terra, or Cthulhu already awoke and returned to the stars... and did not, obviously, devour humanity.

It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. 
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

 BlaxicanX wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
As long as they have war, they win, since war is all they want.
Unless theyre fighting Tau, in which case they die pissed off and buttmad because the Tau refuse to fight Orks the way they think war should be fought.
Nope, they just come back with bigger gunz and more dakka and show the Tau how to properly fight.

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

Nah, they just get pissed off and die. Tau and forces that use guerrilla tactics genuinely piss Orks off according to fluff, and they don't respond it to very competently.

I suppose that's why the Old Ones created two races. The Orks smash things up and are dick at dealing with subterfuge. Eldar are frail fragile flowers but are quick and can fight asymmetrically.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/06/05 02:13:20


 
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Nah, they just get pissed off and die. Tau and forces that use guerrilla tactics genuinely piss Orks off according to fluff
Nah. Not according to Ork fluff.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/05 04:19:57


The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Houston, Texas

Couldnt you just kill orks on concrete on steel so the spores couldn't take root?
Or just kill them with Plasma, Melta, Gauss, or Flamers?
There's a reason they aren't a threat on the level of Chaos or Tyranids
How is this thread ongoing.
The answer is hell no the Imperium can't. Cause Daemons on thier worlds could just say "those battleships in my atmosphere? They're blown up now. Now back to the rape".

Finally found my quote from a gym buddy born and raised in South Korea:
"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
"It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
"It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
"It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." 
   
Made in us
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc




The darkness between the stars

To be technical, there are simply not enough Plasma, Melta, Gauss, or Flamers to reliably kill all the orks not to mention destroy every single spore that comes out. Add to that orks work on the same bs logic as everything else and would likely somehow find some nutrients to feed on.

Back to the question.... Could the IOM launch an offensive operation? Yes. Yes they can. In fact, they have before. That said, I am not mentioning an important caveat. It's an absolutely terrible idea! SM are less corruptable than IG and the crusade they did ended in a complete disaster that arguably gave more to chaos than lost.

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Longtime Dakkanaut




Houston, Texas

 StarTrotter wrote:
To be technical, there are simply not enough Plasma, Melta, Gauss, or Flamers to reliably kill all the orks not to mention destroy every single spore that comes out. Add to that orks work on the same bs logic as everything else and would likely somehow find some nutrients to feed on.

Back to the question.... Could the IOM launch an offensive operation? Yes. Yes they can. In fact, they have before. That said, I am not mentioning an important caveat. It's an absolutely terrible idea! SM are less corruptable than IG and the crusade they did ended in a complete disaster that arguably gave more to chaos than lost.

Isnt it being a bad enough idea to make Chaos stronger, make it a non possibility?
What other race has that stupid of bs?
That could be a reason forge worlds can be casually cleansed of orks due to all the concrete and steel.
Like in Space Marine.

Finally found my quote from a gym buddy born and raised in South Korea:
"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
"It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
"It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
"It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." 
   
Made in us
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife




The Internet- where men are men, women are men, and kids are undercover cops

 StarTrotter wrote:
 EmpNortonII wrote:
 Wyzilla wrote:
 EmpNortonII wrote:
 Wyzilla wrote:
Vintersorg wrote:
People please, Chaos feeds an ALL emotions, not just the negative (for whom?) ones.
As long there is emotional activity in the Universe, there will be Chaos gods.


Not just that. It feeds on other universes as well. Plus Chaos, and the Warp itself, ignores time and causality itself. Chaos is unlikely to ever be going anywhere from the Warp.


Yes, Chaos is everywhere. There's just one problem with using that fact to extrapolate that Chaos is unending.

You see, the Tyranids have devoured galaxies where Chaos did jack to stop them. They're the biggest kid on the 40k block.


And there is no reason to even think that twelve galaxies sacked by the Tyranids held any civilizations even remotely as interesting or as powerful as those contained in the Milky Way. Plus Chaos seems to care little for the Tyranids and only is interested in the main sources of its entertainment, Humanity and Eldar. Chaos is also multiuniversal and thus has no need to even truly care about the Tyranids considering they're not very emotional, nor are they much of a threat. The only thing really tying them to the Milky Way is the GEOM, who, if he operates like the Chaos Gods, who have always existed and came before everything while never existing, the GEOM has always been fighting Chaos and holding them back, just as Chaos has always been fighting him. If Chaos ever truly wanted to "win", it would simply rip holes into the materium across the Galaxy like during the death of the empire(s) DAOT humanity ruled as their FTL was rendered useless by warpstorms and rifts.

To understand the nature of Chaos, I'd suggest reading into the works of H.P. Lovecraft for a damned good description of the nature of incomprehensible eldritch abominations. The only real guess we have to the desire of the Chaos Gods is entertainment, a source of laughter while playing the Great Game. It's the only explanation for the behavior of the Chaos Gods in such instances as abandoning their greatest champions upon the moment of victory, feeding their own false information, and champions such as Abaddon failing to reap true victories. All Chaos wants is the status quo of war to continue.


The galaxies, if they possessed sentient life at all, held Chaos... and likely, rifts to the Immaterium like the EoT. While Chaos may care little for the Tyranids, the reverse does not hold true. The Tyranids destroy Chaos the same as they destroy everything else.

... and mighty C'thulhu is sleeping. He's not forced to fail because victory means non-existence. He will rise and consume humanity- something Chaos simply cannot do.


.... huh? We have no clue about the alternate galaxies that Nids have consumed. Along with that, how does victory mean chaos dies? They want to plunge reality into the warp or, at least, the Milky Way into the warp not slaughter all of humanity (that was Nids and Old Crons thing)


If they plunge reality into the Warp, the emotions that sustain them cease to exist, and thus the Chaos Gods die.

While we don't know much about those galaxies, we do know a lot about Chaos, and it's always-corrupting-everywhere nature. The Tyranids obviously faced resistance in those galaxies. Otherwise, they wouldn't have evolved the weapons they did- you don't need venom cannons to kill deer, after all.

 Jon Garrett wrote:
Perhaps not technically a Marine Chapter anymore, but the Flame Falcons would be pretty creepy to fight.

"Boss, we waz out lookin' for grub when some of them Spice Marines showed up and shot all the lads."

"Right. Well, did you at least use the burnas?"

"We tried, but the gits was already on fire."

"...Kunnin'."
 
   
Made in us
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc




The darkness between the stars

 EmpNortonII wrote:
 StarTrotter wrote:
 EmpNortonII wrote:
 Wyzilla wrote:
 EmpNortonII wrote:
 Wyzilla wrote:
Vintersorg wrote:
People please, Chaos feeds an ALL emotions, not just the negative (for whom?) ones.
As long there is emotional activity in the Universe, there will be Chaos gods.


Not just that. It feeds on other universes as well. Plus Chaos, and the Warp itself, ignores time and causality itself. Chaos is unlikely to ever be going anywhere from the Warp.


Yes, Chaos is everywhere. There's just one problem with using that fact to extrapolate that Chaos is unending.

You see, the Tyranids have devoured galaxies where Chaos did jack to stop them. They're the biggest kid on the 40k block.


And there is no reason to even think that twelve galaxies sacked by the Tyranids held any civilizations even remotely as interesting or as powerful as those contained in the Milky Way. Plus Chaos seems to care little for the Tyranids and only is interested in the main sources of its entertainment, Humanity and Eldar. Chaos is also multiuniversal and thus has no need to even truly care about the Tyranids considering they're not very emotional, nor are they much of a threat. The only thing really tying them to the Milky Way is the GEOM, who, if he operates like the Chaos Gods, who have always existed and came before everything while never existing, the GEOM has always been fighting Chaos and holding them back, just as Chaos has always been fighting him. If Chaos ever truly wanted to "win", it would simply rip holes into the materium across the Galaxy like during the death of the empire(s) DAOT humanity ruled as their FTL was rendered useless by warpstorms and rifts.

To understand the nature of Chaos, I'd suggest reading into the works of H.P. Lovecraft for a damned good description of the nature of incomprehensible eldritch abominations. The only real guess we have to the desire of the Chaos Gods is entertainment, a source of laughter while playing the Great Game. It's the only explanation for the behavior of the Chaos Gods in such instances as abandoning their greatest champions upon the moment of victory, feeding their own false information, and champions such as Abaddon failing to reap true victories. All Chaos wants is the status quo of war to continue.


The galaxies, if they possessed sentient life at all, held Chaos... and likely, rifts to the Immaterium like the EoT. While Chaos may care little for the Tyranids, the reverse does not hold true. The Tyranids destroy Chaos the same as they destroy everything else.

... and mighty C'thulhu is sleeping. He's not forced to fail because victory means non-existence. He will rise and consume humanity- something Chaos simply cannot do.


.... huh? We have no clue about the alternate galaxies that Nids have consumed. Along with that, how does victory mean chaos dies? They want to plunge reality into the warp or, at least, the Milky Way into the warp not slaughter all of humanity (that was Nids and Old Crons thing)


If they plunge reality into the Warp, the emotions that sustain them cease to exist, and thus the Chaos Gods die.

While we don't know much about those galaxies, we do know a lot about Chaos, and it's always-corrupting-everywhere nature. The Tyranids obviously faced resistance in those galaxies. Otherwise, they wouldn't have evolved the weapons they did- you don't need venom cannons to kill deer, after all.


But arguably nothing to the scale of the Imperium. Perhaps armies more akin to our modern day society. We just really don't know. That and GW sucks at statistics. As per chaos, not quite. Plunging them doesn't really mean death to humans. There are humans that live on Daemon Worlds all the time in reality so that claim doesn't quite work. Also if they kill themselves all becomes peace in an eternal balance.

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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Houston, Texas

 EmpNortonII wrote:
 StarTrotter wrote:
 EmpNortonII wrote:
 Wyzilla wrote:
 EmpNortonII wrote:
 Wyzilla wrote:
Vintersorg wrote:
People please, Chaos feeds an ALL emotions, not just the negative (for whom?) ones.
As long there is emotional activity in the Universe, there will be Chaos gods.


Not just that. It feeds on other universes as well. Plus Chaos, and the Warp itself, ignores time and causality itself. Chaos is unlikely to ever be going anywhere from the Warp.


Yes, Chaos is everywhere. There's just one problem with using that fact to extrapolate that Chaos is unending.

You see, the Tyranids have devoured galaxies where Chaos did jack to stop them. They're the biggest kid on the 40k block.


And there is no reason to even think that twelve galaxies sacked by the Tyranids held any civilizations even remotely as interesting or as powerful as those contained in the Milky Way. Plus Chaos seems to care little for the Tyranids and only is interested in the main sources of its entertainment, Humanity and Eldar. Chaos is also multiuniversal and thus has no need to even truly care about the Tyranids considering they're not very emotional, nor are they much of a threat. The only thing really tying them to the Milky Way is the GEOM, who, if he operates like the Chaos Gods, who have always existed and came before everything while never existing, the GEOM has always been fighting Chaos and holding them back, just as Chaos has always been fighting him. If Chaos ever truly wanted to "win", it would simply rip holes into the materium across the Galaxy like during the death of the empire(s) DAOT humanity ruled as their FTL was rendered useless by warpstorms and rifts.

To understand the nature of Chaos, I'd suggest reading into the works of H.P. Lovecraft for a damned good description of the nature of incomprehensible eldritch abominations. The only real guess we have to the desire of the Chaos Gods is entertainment, a source of laughter while playing the Great Game. It's the only explanation for the behavior of the Chaos Gods in such instances as abandoning their greatest champions upon the moment of victory, feeding their own false information, and champions such as Abaddon failing to reap true victories. All Chaos wants is the status quo of war to continue.


The galaxies, if they possessed sentient life at all, held Chaos... and likely, rifts to the Immaterium like the EoT. While Chaos may care little for the Tyranids, the reverse does not hold true. The Tyranids destroy Chaos the same as they destroy everything else.

... and mighty C'thulhu is sleeping. He's not forced to fail because victory means non-existence. He will rise and consume humanity- something Chaos simply cannot do.


.... huh? We have no clue about the alternate galaxies that Nids have consumed. Along with that, how does victory mean chaos dies? They want to plunge reality into the warp or, at least, the Milky Way into the warp not slaughter all of humanity (that was Nids and Old Crons thing)


If they plunge reality into the Warp, the emotions that sustain them cease to exist, and thus the Chaos Gods die.

While we don't know much about those galaxies, we do know a lot about Chaos, and it's always-corrupting-everywhere nature. The Tyranids obviously faced resistance in those galaxies. Otherwise, they wouldn't have evolved the weapons they did- you don't need venom cannons to kill deer, after all.
y
What?
Emotions would still exist if humanity was in the warp. Only difference is the Gods would be closer to thier food.

Finally found my quote from a gym buddy born and raised in South Korea:
"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
"It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
"It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
"It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." 
   
Made in us
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc




The darkness between the stars

 ThePrimordial wrote:
 StarTrotter wrote:
To be technical, there are simply not enough Plasma, Melta, Gauss, or Flamers to reliably kill all the orks not to mention destroy every single spore that comes out. Add to that orks work on the same bs logic as everything else and would likely somehow find some nutrients to feed on.

Back to the question.... Could the IOM launch an offensive operation? Yes. Yes they can. In fact, they have before. That said, I am not mentioning an important caveat. It's an absolutely terrible idea! SM are less corruptable than IG and the crusade they did ended in a complete disaster that arguably gave more to chaos than lost.

Isnt it being a bad enough idea to make Chaos stronger, make it a non possibility?
What other race has that stupid of bs?
That could be a reason forge worlds can be casually cleansed of orks due to all the concrete and steel.
Like in Space Marine.


To be fair, SM was a fun game. That said, the single SM slaughtered hundreds if not thousands of orks, grots, and squigs, killed a warboss solo and ork hordes, healed by slaughtering enemies in GLORIOUS CLOSE COMBAT, killed dozens or more of cultists, murderized a ton of Bloodletters (I still don't know why these sorcerers so frequently summon Khorne in relic games), killed dozens of CSM, and managed to kill a recently formed Daemon Prince all the while resisting the warp entirely.

As per race that does something so stupid.... to be fair, inept bureacracy+secretly heretic judge = all according to plans

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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

 Melissia wrote:
 BlaxicanX wrote:
Nah, they just get pissed off and die. Tau and forces that use guerrilla tactics genuinely piss Orks off according to fluff
Nah. Not according to Ork fluff.
Examples?
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

The fact that you need examples regarding Orks liking dakka on a website called dakkadakka says much about your (lack of) knowledge fo the lore.

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in fi
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine





somewhere in the northern side of the beachball

 BlaxicanX wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
 BlaxicanX wrote:
Nah, they just get pissed off and die. Tau and forces that use guerrilla tactics genuinely piss Orks off according to fluff
Nah. Not according to Ork fluff.
Examples?


War of Dakka

"the Tau high command were shocked to the core"
"Tau forces trapped and outmaneuvered."

Every time I hear "in my opinion" or "just my opinion" makes me want to strangle a puppy. People use their opinions as a shield that other poeple can't critisize and that is bs.

If you can't defend or won't defend your opinion then that "opinion" is bs. Stop trying to tip-toe and defend what you believe in. 
   
Made in us
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

 Melissia wrote:
The fact that you need examples regarding Orks liking dakka on a website called dakkadakka says much about your (lack of) knowledge fo the lore.


We've actually had this discussion before, a couple of months ago in fact.

You lost then, just like you're going to lose now.

I have no doubt that the orks "like dakka". The assertion you're making is that they enjoy fighting Tau and can handle their tactics. That's wrong on both accounts.

I was waiting for you to bring up the War of Dakka, the only moment in Ork fluff where they ever hold their own against Tau, so that I could inform you (again) that the War of Dakka is over in the fluff as of the Farsight Enclaves supplement, ending with Farsight saying "I aint got time for this gak" and decapitating the warboss after routing his forces and wiping the orks off the face of the planet.

It's noted in both the Ork codex and the Tyranid codex that guerrilla tactics "frustrate" and "infuriate" Orks, to the point where they get pissed off enough to lose their judgement and make mistakes, hence Skarfang's eventual assassination at the hands of the Tyranids.

So we have codex fluff stating that they don't like hit and run attacks, and there's yet to be any provided instances of Orks ever defeating the Tau in a war. So what is this sooper-dooper secret fluff you're holding to your chest that says otherwise?

Edit- Ah, there we go. Thanks illuknisaaMade.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2014/06/05 08:10:46


 
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I have no doubt that the orks "like dakka". The assertion you're making is that they enjoy fighting
If you had ended your post here, you'd have been correct.

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

I'm still correct, as that wasn't your assertion, madame. Either that or you suck at articulating your points. *blackgirlheadswivel

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/06/05 08:17:23


 
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I'm still correct, as that wasn't your assertion.
I don't respect you enough to let you redefine my assertions for me. I asserted exactly what I said.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/05 08:17:38


The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

I know you did. Hence, your assertion that orks don't do anything but get mad and die at the hands of Tau in the fluff is incorrect.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2014/06/05 08:19:08


 
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I know you did. Hence, your assertion that orks don't do anything but get mad and die at the hands of Tau in the fluff is incorrect.
My assertion is that Orks like war and fighting. Yes, even sneaky fighting (they have an entire clan dedicated to it in fact).

This is such a fundamental aspect of Ork lore that, given the fact that I dislike you and don't respect you, I have no intention of debating you on it. Your ignorance is its own testament to itself.


edit: On a more pleasant note, the image in your signature is broken. Figure you'd like to know.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/06/05 08:22:43


The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
Banelord Titan Princeps of Khorne




Noctis Labyrinthus

You like and respect me though, right?
   
Made in se
Glorious Lord of Chaos






The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer

 Void__Dragon wrote:
You like and respect me though, right?


Everyone does.

Look at you, how could someone not love that face?

Currently ongoing projects:
Horus Heresy Alpha Legion
Tyranids  
   
Made in us
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

 Melissia wrote:
 BlaxicanX wrote:
I know you did. Hence, your assertion that orks don't do anything but get mad and die at the hands of Tau in the fluff is incorrect.
My assertion is that Orks like war and fighting. Yes, even sneaky fighting (they have an entire clan dedicated to it in fact).

This is such a fundamental aspect of Ork lore that, given the fact that I dislike you and don't respect you, I have no intention of debating you on it. Your ignorance is its own testament to itself.

edit: On a more pleasant note, the image in your signature is broken. Figure you'd like to know.
What assertion have I made that you're disagreeing with, then?

Also, why do you dislike me?

And thank you. It'll start working on its own in a few days, my bandwidth is exceeded.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/05 08:37:31


 
   
Made in us
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife




The Internet- where men are men, women are men, and kids are undercover cops

 StarTrotter wrote:
 EmpNortonII wrote:
 StarTrotter wrote:
 EmpNortonII wrote:
 Wyzilla wrote:
 EmpNortonII wrote:
 Wyzilla wrote:
Vintersorg wrote:
People please, Chaos feeds an ALL emotions, not just the negative (for whom?) ones.
As long there is emotional activity in the Universe, there will be Chaos gods.


Not just that. It feeds on other universes as well. Plus Chaos, and the Warp itself, ignores time and causality itself. Chaos is unlikely to ever be going anywhere from the Warp.


Yes, Chaos is everywhere. There's just one problem with using that fact to extrapolate that Chaos is unending.

You see, the Tyranids have devoured galaxies where Chaos did jack to stop them. They're the biggest kid on the 40k block.


And there is no reason to even think that twelve galaxies sacked by the Tyranids held any civilizations even remotely as interesting or as powerful as those contained in the Milky Way. Plus Chaos seems to care little for the Tyranids and only is interested in the main sources of its entertainment, Humanity and Eldar. Chaos is also multiuniversal and thus has no need to even truly care about the Tyranids considering they're not very emotional, nor are they much of a threat. The only thing really tying them to the Milky Way is the GEOM, who, if he operates like the Chaos Gods, who have always existed and came before everything while never existing, the GEOM has always been fighting Chaos and holding them back, just as Chaos has always been fighting him. If Chaos ever truly wanted to "win", it would simply rip holes into the materium across the Galaxy like during the death of the empire(s) DAOT humanity ruled as their FTL was rendered useless by warpstorms and rifts.

To understand the nature of Chaos, I'd suggest reading into the works of H.P. Lovecraft for a damned good description of the nature of incomprehensible eldritch abominations. The only real guess we have to the desire of the Chaos Gods is entertainment, a source of laughter while playing the Great Game. It's the only explanation for the behavior of the Chaos Gods in such instances as abandoning their greatest champions upon the moment of victory, feeding their own false information, and champions such as Abaddon failing to reap true victories. All Chaos wants is the status quo of war to continue.


The galaxies, if they possessed sentient life at all, held Chaos... and likely, rifts to the Immaterium like the EoT. While Chaos may care little for the Tyranids, the reverse does not hold true. The Tyranids destroy Chaos the same as they destroy everything else.

... and mighty C'thulhu is sleeping. He's not forced to fail because victory means non-existence. He will rise and consume humanity- something Chaos simply cannot do.


.... huh? We have no clue about the alternate galaxies that Nids have consumed. Along with that, how does victory mean chaos dies? They want to plunge reality into the warp or, at least, the Milky Way into the warp not slaughter all of humanity (that was Nids and Old Crons thing)


If they plunge reality into the Warp, the emotions that sustain them cease to exist, and thus the Chaos Gods die.

While we don't know much about those galaxies, we do know a lot about Chaos, and it's always-corrupting-everywhere nature. The Tyranids obviously faced resistance in those galaxies. Otherwise, they wouldn't have evolved the weapons they did- you don't need venom cannons to kill deer, after all.


But arguably nothing to the scale of the Imperium. Perhaps armies more akin to our modern day society. We just really don't know. That and GW sucks at statistics. As per chaos, not quite. Plunging them doesn't really mean death to humans. There are humans that live on Daemon Worlds all the time in reality so that claim doesn't quite work. Also if they kill themselves all becomes peace in an eternal balance.


The Tyranids developed weapons advanced enough that the Ultramarines had to develop new tactics to beat them- the Ultramarines... did... something... NEW!

Besides, they possessed organisms capable of facing down space ships- they've clearly fought space-faring enemies before.

 Jon Garrett wrote:
Perhaps not technically a Marine Chapter anymore, but the Flame Falcons would be pretty creepy to fight.

"Boss, we waz out lookin' for grub when some of them Spice Marines showed up and shot all the lads."

"Right. Well, did you at least use the burnas?"

"We tried, but the gits was already on fire."

"...Kunnin'."
 
   
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USA

Yeah, that's definitely a good point regarding space combat.

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought





 Psienesis wrote:
... and mighty C'thulhu is sleeping. He's not forced to fail because victory means non-existence. He will rise and consume humanity- something Chaos simply cannot do.


In 40K terms, Cthulhu is a powerfully-psychic Xeno from a long-dead civilization, but is otherwise not particularly powerful in the setting. Things like Cthulhu reside in the Ghoul Stars, and are kept there (and have been kept there) by a line of Space Marine-held Fortress Worlds at its rim.

Also, R'lyeh was supposedly sunken in the Pacific ocean. In the era of 40K, there are no more oceans on Terra. R'lyeh isn't/wasn't there. So either the God-Emperor (or some other figure lost to the mists of time) destroyed the Sleeping Lord sometime prior to the Unification Wars on Terra, or Cthulhu already awoke and returned to the stars... and did not, obviously, devour humanity.


Nah, Cthulhu's easily on par with a Greater Daemon if not leagues beyond it (he's multi dimensional), but I'd put him on par with somebody like say, Magnus realizing his full potential and turning into a Primarch version of Dak'ir. Cthulhu though would certainly get his ass kick fighting the GEOM or Chaos though, even if he's truly immortal and cannot die. Azathoth and Yog-Sothoth though, now that's a completely different story.

“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
 
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought





 EmpNortonII wrote:
 StarTrotter wrote:
 EmpNortonII wrote:
 Wyzilla wrote:
 EmpNortonII wrote:
 Wyzilla wrote:
Vintersorg wrote:
People please, Chaos feeds an ALL emotions, not just the negative (for whom?) ones.
As long there is emotional activity in the Universe, there will be Chaos gods.


Not just that. It feeds on other universes as well. Plus Chaos, and the Warp itself, ignores time and causality itself. Chaos is unlikely to ever be going anywhere from the Warp.


Yes, Chaos is everywhere. There's just one problem with using that fact to extrapolate that Chaos is unending.

You see, the Tyranids have devoured galaxies where Chaos did jack to stop them. They're the biggest kid on the 40k block.


And there is no reason to even think that twelve galaxies sacked by the Tyranids held any civilizations even remotely as interesting or as powerful as those contained in the Milky Way. Plus Chaos seems to care little for the Tyranids and only is interested in the main sources of its entertainment, Humanity and Eldar. Chaos is also multiuniversal and thus has no need to even truly care about the Tyranids considering they're not very emotional, nor are they much of a threat. The only thing really tying them to the Milky Way is the GEOM, who, if he operates like the Chaos Gods, who have always existed and came before everything while never existing, the GEOM has always been fighting Chaos and holding them back, just as Chaos has always been fighting him. If Chaos ever truly wanted to "win", it would simply rip holes into the materium across the Galaxy like during the death of the empire(s) DAOT humanity ruled as their FTL was rendered useless by warpstorms and rifts.

To understand the nature of Chaos, I'd suggest reading into the works of H.P. Lovecraft for a damned good description of the nature of incomprehensible eldritch abominations. The only real guess we have to the desire of the Chaos Gods is entertainment, a source of laughter while playing the Great Game. It's the only explanation for the behavior of the Chaos Gods in such instances as abandoning their greatest champions upon the moment of victory, feeding their own false information, and champions such as Abaddon failing to reap true victories. All Chaos wants is the status quo of war to continue.


The galaxies, if they possessed sentient life at all, held Chaos... and likely, rifts to the Immaterium like the EoT. While Chaos may care little for the Tyranids, the reverse does not hold true. The Tyranids destroy Chaos the same as they destroy everything else.

... and mighty C'thulhu is sleeping. He's not forced to fail because victory means non-existence. He will rise and consume humanity- something Chaos simply cannot do.


.... huh? We have no clue about the alternate galaxies that Nids have consumed. Along with that, how does victory mean chaos dies? They want to plunge reality into the warp or, at least, the Milky Way into the warp not slaughter all of humanity (that was Nids and Old Crons thing)


If they plunge reality into the Warp, the emotions that sustain them cease to exist, and thus the Chaos Gods die.

While we don't know much about those galaxies, we do know a lot about Chaos, and it's always-corrupting-everywhere nature. The Tyranids obviously faced resistance in those galaxies. Otherwise, they wouldn't have evolved the weapons they did- you don't need venom cannons to kill deer, after all.


Are you literate? I already posted a massive collection of quotes from the BRB and Codices stating that Chaos is multiuniversal, omnipotent, undefeatable, eternal, and causality ignoring. They operate on a completely different scale than the Tyranids. Do you even understand what causality ignoring and occupying a Schrodinger state of existence means? They're invincible by anything else in 40K save another warp entity similar to them and much greater in power (which will be damn near impossible to ever do, thanks Eldar). Hell even if you did harm them it wouldn't do anything as, due to the lack of causality itself in the warp, they'd be unharmed. Hell you could even blow up the Milky Way and they'd be unfazed, they'd just move over to another one of the numerous universes they're connected for food and entertainment. At least the Eldar actually have a legitimate claim to being a threat to Chaos if they ever indeed do creat Ynnead, and even that may not work given Ynnead being composed of laughably fewer souls than Slaanesh.

(Numbers for the Eldar Empire pre-fall are absolutely insane. They could have quite likely outnumbered the ORKS.)

“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
 
   
 
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