Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

With cover saves galore and a focus on MCs, does the Vindicator still have a place?
Best I can come up with is as a heavy tank killer, using that S10 ordnance boost.

As a BA player, it has its uses for me, ex it gets an aditional 6" range because of the added profile of "Fast" giving me more move distance. But for everybody else, probably Cities of Death as a building killer.

I've used it from time to time. My opponent likes to deep strike his terminators mid field, right in the sweet spot for the 24' range. The template does some damage and AV13 is enough that he can't be sure the cyclone missile launcher will take it out when he lands.

While there is a lot of cover out there, you still need to respect the pie plate. The vindi has always been very focused. I think it might be a little too limited for a very competitive list, but it should work fine in a more relaxed environment.

Looking back at my last few games, there were quite a few things rushing across the table to get to grips with me. Not every list is a gunline cowering on cover. A vindi would not have been a waste.

They insti-kill up to T5 multi-wound models. It's a very versatile weapon when used with correct support. An excellent core to be paired up with flanking support.

I love my vindi. Generally it is my only heavy support choice in 1000 pt level games.

The pie plate deserves respect. Keep the flanks covered and the front AV 13 is still a challenge to most enemies you face.

I could see it falling away if I began playing on a larger table more often but on our 3x3 table it can get into range.

If the rumors about consolidating into another combat hold true for 7th edition, then assault based armies become more viable. If assault becomes more viable, giant pie plates of death become better too.

-Matt

I see it working alongside a Tac Squad in a Rhino. Rhino can block a weak side and mop up wounded squads.

With vehicles being harder to kill in 7th E. There might be more uses and viability for most vehicles. Maulerfiiends, dreadnoughts might make a slight comeback

They are excellent distractors. 2 are more than twice as good as one. Insert another cliché here - '........'
But seriously - both points stand.

For BA - Yes. Fast is necessary IMO to make the big gun work well.

Agreed.

I think that the Chaos Vindicator with Daemonic Possession or Blood Angels Fast Vindicator still has a place.

As for others... I think they are still viable, just not spectacular. Have to respect the Strength 10 pieplate.

The closest equivalent unit (s) would probably be a combination of whirlwind and dual MM speeders. Luckily both are fairly cheap

Played my Vindi the other night and once more it survived three turns. Took l my opponents anti tank for 3 turns and managed to pie plate a couple of infantry blobs. For 135 pts with a siege shield I can't think of a HS choice that would replace it in low point games.

If there is ANYTHING that can get me to play a Loyalist army, it is Fast Vindicators from BA. Either that or Leman Russ BT in SW...

In my upcoming game I'll be fielding 3 vindi's and LRC w/ dakka banner. I have high expectations for them.

I had a game against Thousand Sons where I took 1 Vindicator and it wrecked 2x Rhino's, Vindicator and a blob of infantry. Went gangbusters. I love mine. I think it is still viable.

It's either a ~110 point distraction or it's a fatal unit for your opponent if he lets it fire unmolested and you scatter well. Neither is ideal, but neither is terrible either.

At the moment it seems like it would best compliment an assault or deathstar army that needed alternative sources of high-threat, high-priority targets, or for Blood Angels in general. Anyone else will probably be better off taking more efficient, well-rounded units as the Vindicators won't survive very long in their list.

If someone finds a way to both force the opponent to deal with the Vindicator AND still have it survive to manage to fire off multiple shots with it, I'm all ears.

Well I'll be running a librarian on a bike with a PFG behind the LRC and two vindi's to give 3 of my tanks a 4++

Tanks just got slightly better, MCs slightly worse, and vindicator is good anti-tank. I'd say he got a buff here.
Nice tank, not my cup of tea, but nice.

24" Is not a hindrance for any standard deployment. You will always have 24" between your deployment edge and the enemies. So place your vindi(or LRPunisher) on the line and move it 6" directly towards the nearest enemy unit(if you go second you deploy directly across from a choice target and still try to steal the initiative).

There are 2 things to consider:
1) you should absolutely be able to fire from 1st turn on.
2) The vindicator is cheap and durable and so can be sacrificed to all of your opponents anti-tank guns while your other armour elements move into position.

Because you assume I will deploy everything and anything you want to shoot at as far up front as I can?
Unlikely, especially if I have 36 or greater range, and I know you plan to get closer as you got lower ranges.

For the good.of this thread I'm rematching my opponent tomorrow running a dev squad instead of the vindi I run normally.

I'll report back!

 BoomWolf wrote:
Because you assume I will deploy everything and anything you want to shoot at as far up front as I can?
Unlikely, especially if I have 36 or greater range, and I know you plan to get closer as you got lower ranges.

No.

I assume that in 50% of the games I play, I will deploy second; and be able to deploy within 30" of a good target.

I also assume that you are more likely to still deploy some units within about 30" of my 24" ranged tanks(with very nearby troops) because you do not want to waste a turn not shooting your basic weapons.

But hey if I set a squadron of Punishers(or 3 vindicators) across my front lines and that causes you to deploy along your back edge; my tanks have paid for themselves just in denying most of your guns for a turn or 2. And in the mean time they will rush forward popping smoke, then blast your units

Looks like there is a high chance to get locked out of shooting.

I run two Vindicators in all of my lists. They are effective against everything but flyers.

They insta-kill almost any infantry in the game on a 2+ with only a few exceptions. They rarely miss armor and can hit it hard with ordinance rolls to pen. They are not exactly easy to take out with armor 13 and any skill at guarding your weak side armor.

Even in games where they kill very few enemies they still extend a bubble of command that very few people willingly enter. I have watched opponents agonize over entering withing thirty inches of my Vindicators out of fear of catching a Str10 pie plate.

They are simply all around useful.

If your foe brings a fortification and you can secure safe passage to firing range. A vindi will knock it down like a pro. That's a good enough reason to take a vindicator.

It would also be great at splatting nids if your in a more defensive posture.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
If there is ANYTHING that can get me to play a Loyalist army, it is Fast Vindicators from BA. Either that or Leman Russ BT in SW...

hahah not anymore

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Because you assume I will deploy everything and anything you want to shoot at as far up front as I can?
Unlikely, especially if I have 36 or greater range, and I know you plan to get closer as you got lower ranges.

No.

I assume that in 50% of the games I play, I will deploy second; and be able to deploy within 30" of a good target.

I also assume that you are more likely to still deploy some units within about 30" of my 24" ranged tanks(with very nearby troops) because you do not want to waste a turn not shooting your basic weapons.

But hey if I set a squadron of Punishers(or 3 vindicators) across my front lines and that causes you to deploy along your back edge; my tanks have paid for themselves just in denying most of your guns for a turn or 2. And in the mean time they will rush forward popping smoke, then blast your units

This. Even if you deploy first, pick your deployment across from any BLOS terrain and you've just created a 24" kill zone that your opponent will be very hesitant to enter.