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Hello everyone, I haven't used matte varnish in a good five-six years due to multiple frosting incidents. Recently, however, Pedro Kantor and his retinue of sternguard have acquired too many chips and I wanted to varnish them. Does anyone have a brand that they have had good luck with, particularly one that doesn't frost miniatures? Thanks very much.

I really like Vallejo's brush on matte varnish. I have also lost good models to frosting and swore off of GW's purity seal. Have had amazing and controllable results with the brush on stuff.

When used correctly, Testor's Dullcote has never failed me and never had any problems.

Several thin coats of dullcote works well. Sounds like it was applied too thick, or maybe you have issues with humidity or something?

Ah, several thin paints of dullcote, that's what I was doing wrong... I only put one on.

Krylon has been wonderful to me for everything....definitely like them a lot and its readily available.

I think im going back to brush on matt varnish after a terrible frosting on some of my best painted models, spray varnish is to scary for the speed it takes me to paint a model. lol

frosting is caused by humidity in the air. You need to use spray varnish at around 30% humidity.

Frosting isn't just caused by humidity, nor is it restricted solely to aerosol sprays. Improper mixing, agitation during curing, overly thick application, etc. can all adversely affect the finish of matte varnishes, whether sprayed (airbrush or rattle can) or brushed on by hand.

As for what to use, I also swear by Dullcote, if you're looking for a spray can (haven't used the brush-on/airbrush version). I've used it on dozens of models, sprayed in various conditions (winter, summer... obviously not in the rain, but definitely >30% humidity), and have yet to experience a single frosting issue with it - if you exercise a bit of care and common sense, you should be fine.

If you want a liquid product, I'd advise against the ubiquitous Liquitex matte - aside from being closer to satin than dead flat, I find that the finish is slightly hazy, even if outright frosting is avoided, which kills any subtle color transitions. I like their satin for canvas paintings, but I won't use any of their varnishes on models, again. Vallejo would treat you much better, I imagine.

i use Vallejo's Gloss for one coat, then Matte for the last. Reason i do this is if i see a shiny spot i know its wearing off, and two layers is better than one since you REALLY dont want to glob it on there - i found that out the hard way, ended up almost repainting my riptide

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i use Vallejo's Gloss for one coat, then Matte for the last. Reason i do this is if i see a shiny spot i know its wearing off, and two layers is better than one since you REALLY dont want to glob it on there - i found that out the hard way, ended up almost repainting my riptide

Gloss will be good for giving you a stronger coat underneath the matte. though dullcote is probably just as strong in my experience (but I always but gloss on underneath just cause).

Interesting thread, as I'll be using some type of Matte finish varnish to finish off my very first models soon.

Right now based on the replies I think I may go with Testor's Dullcote rather than the Vallejo I had planned on buying.

Thought I would chime in here. I have used Testors Dullcote on hundreds of models, and I have never had a problem. I, too, have used it in a number of various weather conditions. So one more vote for Testors.

Something to note; recently there have been rumors that Testor's has changed the formula for their Dullcote sprays, resulting in less of a matte finish than before. I for one believe this to be some element of truth as I have sprayed numerous models up to about 8 months ago with Dullcote. At some point after that, the cans that I purchased gave more of a satin finish no where near the level of previously sprayed models.

I have since moved on from Dullcote and have multiple different brands ready to test out. So far I've tried Liquitex and did not like the finish at all. It muted the colors too much and the finish didn't appear to be the smooth result I achieved with the old Dullcote. One down, three more to go.

Ulterior wrote:
Something to note; recently there have been rumors that Testor's has changed the formula for their Dullcote sprays, resulting in less of a matte finish than before.

The reformulation has happened. It started in the EU/UK due to a restriction on toluene back in the 2010 time frame. In 2012 they went ahead and switched the entire supply chain for the Dullcote family (Dullcote and Glosscote) to a toluene free flavor to simplify their logistics and deal with increasing pressure from large domestic markets like New York and California.

The old formula used toluene as the primary solvent for the lacquer. The new formula uses Naptha and Methyl isobutyl ketone. Naptha and MIBK are not able to properly dissolve the old nitrocellulose formula and a new version was developed which is more sensitive to temperature during the curing process. Higher temperatures are needed in order to achieve the dead flat finish from the previous version (not significantly higher...whereas 70 was optimal pre2012, around 75 is the word for the new formulation).

A bigger change is that the new formulation is less able to be recoated. Previous version - the lacquer solvent would redissolve the first coat and allow you to build a dead flat finish with two or three brushing spaced out over hours, days or even months if you wanted to. The new formulation really needs to have a second coat applied within an hour or so of the first coat. Longer than that and the previous coat will have set up too much for the naptha/MIBK to redissolve. It will still bond well enough, however the progressive build up of layers of matte finish actually can lead to a less than matte finish.

You can of course solve that issue by using a toluene based lacquer thinner and spray using an airbrush...though there are certain other issues relating to that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Orinoco wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i use Vallejo's Gloss for one coat, then Matte for the last. Reason i do this is if i see a shiny spot i know its wearing off, and two layers is better than one since you REALLY dont want to glob it on there - i found that out the hard way, ended up almost repainting my riptide

Gloss will be good for giving you a stronger coat underneath the matte. though dullcote is probably just as strong in my experience (but I always but gloss on underneath just cause).

The gloss is also handy for sealing everything in.

Dullcote (even the new version) can be a bit of a problem if you have certain washes, tints or other effects using paints other than regular acrylics. If you go a bit too heavy with the lacquer, the solvents can cause some of those paints to run or otherwise react in a way you weren't expecting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Orinoco wrote:
frosting is caused by humidity in the air. You need to use spray varnish at around 30% humidity.

Sort of one of the reasons why lacquers are generally a more bullet proof clear than other options - they really don't care about humidity (within reason...wouldn't recommend using them in a steam room - though you probably could). The solvents actually displace any moisture they come in contact with quite readily, whether that is atmospheric moisture that condenses in the air stream or moisture that is held by the paint finish itself. Kinder, gentler clears tend to be more sensitive since if there is moisture caught up in the spray or latent moisture being held by the paint film (semi-cured paints are amazingly porous) that moisture can lead to the frosting issues we have come to know.

Testers every time and if it ever leaves a frost just re apply it to remove frosting

 Sean_OBrien wrote:

Ulterior wrote:
Something to note; recently there have been rumors that Testor's has changed the formula for their Dullcote sprays, resulting in less of a matte finish than before.

The reformulation has happened. It started in the EU/UK due to a restriction on toluene back in the 2010 time frame. In 2012 they went ahead and switched the entire supply chain for the Dullcote family (Dullcote and Glosscote) to a toluene free flavor to simplify their logistics and deal with increasing pressure from large domestic markets like New York and California.

The old formula used toluene as the primary solvent for the lacquer. The new formula uses Naptha and Methyl isobutyl ketone. Naptha and MIBK are not able to properly dissolve the old nitrocellulose formula and a new version was developed which is more sensitive to temperature during the curing process. Higher temperatures are needed in order to achieve the dead flat finish from the previous version (not significantly higher...whereas 70 was optimal pre2012, around 75 is the word for the new formulation).

A bigger change is that the new formulation is less able to be recoated. Previous version - the lacquer solvent would redissolve the first coat and allow you to build a dead flat finish with two or three brushing spaced out over hours, days or even months if you wanted to. The new formulation really needs to have a second coat applied within an hour or so of the first coat. Longer than that and the previous coat will have set up too much for the naptha/MIBK to redissolve. It will still bond well enough, however the progressive build up of layers of matte finish actually can lead to a less than matte finish.

You can of course solve that issue by using a toluene based lacquer thinner and spray using an airbrush...though there are certain other issues relating to that.

Wow, thanks Sean! Now I can confirm my own sanity... it is different!