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So I am pretty new to FOW, I have purchased, assembled, and painted the open fire box set. I have also played about three games with it, including the demo game. I play around Philadelphia, PA.

I know I want to play the germans and play mostly late war but wanting to keep mid war an option. I have not purchased any of the supplement books yet as I am not sure which one I want to go with, although desperate measurers is looking like the first purchase.

I have decided to try to build a decent late war army up first and have decided to use the intelligence briefs for my first army before I commit to a certain book. I am partial to TD's (and AT guns) for some reason. I really feel like they strike fear on the battlefield and I know if I was an allied tanker the thought of a Jagdpanther maybe being in the next bush would still keep me up at night!

(I promise I'll get to the questions soon)

So I looked through the intel briefs and think I have decided on the 653 Schwere Panzerjagerabteilung (whew) Elefant Company. I attempted to use EasyArmy to do this but I could not figure out what source this would fall under so I just did it on power point.

Basically I decided on this list cause it lets me use some of the models I have with open fire and lets me get some more common late war models. I think the elefants are not that common though.

Here is the list:

HQ: (367)
Tiger (P) Late (285)
Bergepanther (82) <has pz4 turret

Cmbt Plts (600)
2x Elefants (600)

Sprt Plts (440)
3x Stug G (285)
2x Gren Squads (155) ><<<<Are these the ones from open fire????

Total Points (1407)


So I was shooting for 1500 points. I'm hoping 1500 is common.

My questions:
Does this list seem feasible/competitive? I would like to take artillery I can get 2x NW42 launchers for 90 points but not sure how effective two launchers would be.

Is anti-air or air support a necessity? I have never seen anyone use it. I do hope to do some tournaments this summer though even for just experience.

The grenadier squads are compatiable with the open fire infantry squads? I think the open fire has a Panzerfaust SMG team?? ><this would add 10 points I believe.

To make the bergepanther would I have to buy a tiger and a pz4 box then mash them, because I could not find a bergepanther box set? ><<<

Since the elefants are an improved (in the field) version of a Ferdinand would I catch a lot of flak using the models as both? Such as in a list that calls for a ferdi and not an elefant.

The intel report says the Tiger (P) has upgraded armor. This does not need to be modeled in any way? I believe it is reflected in the Intel Report stats section.

Also about Intel reports, are they generally accepted for use in most gaming shops and tournaments? and do they fall in with certain books? >


Thank you so Much for your help community! I have never posted before but I read a lot of the post and you guys/girls provide invaluable information!>

Hi MrMcAwesome.
The list you picked , is a bit specialist, and I would not use this one to start with.

The stugs and panzer grenadiers from Open Fire are useful in lots of lists .

Have you looked at the free lists on Easy Army .They have all the lists from the V3 Forces books , and the PDF lists from Battlefront website briefings?

Most players tend to have a good mix of infantry and armour with artillery and recon support.
Anti air craft units tend to be more list specific.I tend to take a few cheap units , as they are good vs infantry too!

If you prefer to attack take an armoured list with infantry support.
If you prefer to defend take an infantry list with armour support.

if you are not sure, then amoured infantry with armoured support is more flexible.

(If you are new and budget is a bit tight.I suggest looking at the Plastic Soldier Company, for vehicles .)

If you look at the other lists on EA, and see what appeals we may be able to help you more.

AFAIK all the breifing lists on the web site are accepted by other players, as well as the lists in the 'campaign' books.

Hi there welcome to FoW, as mentioned you're going for a very specialised list, I can completely understand why you want elephants as they are pretty cool, but bar that PDF and the new Italy Axis book they are very much 'on their own' with little crossover to other areas.

If you have open fire and want elephants, you may do better with a grenadier list from 'fortress italy' the advantage of this is that you have all the open fire grenadiers (and they can be grenadiers from every front and almost every time period) - and whilst there are lots of common support options you can then add little 'special' bits fo equipment to each list to add variety.

I'd consider
362 Infanteriedivision CV

HQ both panzerfausts and anti tank section

Grenadier Platoon 3 squads with panzerfaust

Grenadier Platoon 3 squads with panzerfaust

schwere panzerjager platoon
2 elephants

3 Pak 40's

2 Recon 8-rads

3 Nebelwerfers

Grenadier mortar platoon 2 sections

thats almost 1500 points, and bar the elephants can be used to make normandy, market garden and easter front grenadier lists

Hey guys thank you so much for your replies and your great advice.

I have been looking through the briefings from the battlefront website again and I have found a list that looks a little more...less specialized. As in the units seem to be pretty useful through most campaings.

I do want to do an armor list with infantry to seize and hold objectives. SO I have taken an intrest in the Fuhrer Brigades Intel Briefings.

The new list that I think I like better (seems more flexible and easier to knock down to 1000 for smaller games) is the Fuhrer Panzerkompaine (http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=108&art_id=3780&kb_cat_id=18) list as follows:

HQ (185):

2x Panzer IV J

Combat Plts (805):

3x Panzer IV J (270)
4x Panzer IV J (360)
3x Whirbelwind or Mobelwagon (175)<<<Not sure which would be better or more common.

Support Plts (475):
3x Grenadier Sqauds (130)
3x Grenadier Sqauds (130)
3x 15cm sFH18 (185)><<<<Can drop the AA and make this a six gun battery for nearly same cost.
2x Light Mortar (30)><<<<<Add one team to each grenadier squad as an option.

Total Points (1465)

My concerns about this list:

The Panzer IV's have many different versions-J,G,H, etc etc. If I purchase and model this many J versions how hard is it to convert them to other versions or switch them between list???? Basicaly is there much of a modeling difference or will J's be almost indistinguishable from H's or G's???

Which AA is better or more common?? Wirbelwind or Mobelwagon?

Not sure about taking the extra mortars. Is one mortar stand effective when in a grenadier company? Especially if it is a mobile unit?

http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=108&art_id=3780&kb_cat_id=18

^^^^^^The List^^^^^^^

Thanks again for your help guys!>

Far better list to begin with.

The panzer 4 H/J do have differences but not enough that people care, just remember to say I have J's or H's so your opponent knows.

The AA is a difficult call but I would go for the mobelwagon it's slightly more common. Both are equally effective.

I'll just point you towards another German armour PDF which I think is slightly better IMHO

http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=108&art_id=3730&kb_cat_id=100

You still have panzer 4's/ infantry but access to more useful units like puma's for recon and nebelwerfers as cheap artillery

Hope you find it helpful

Hi again.
I totally agree with Reaver83 points.

Just to add I have found it is best to run Panzer IV like this.

HQ 2 x panzer IV

2 combat platoons 4 x panzer IV

This gives the optimum amount of vehicles to maximize morale.

(You can buy 2 boxes of 5 x Panzer IV ,(10 in total) from Plastic Soldier Company for £39.if you are on a budget.)

Have fun writing your lists.

Lanrak wrote:
(You can buy 2 boxes of 5 x Panzer IV ,(10 in total) from Plastic Soldier Company for £39.if you are on a budget.)

Since he's in the U.S., he can get them for $25.99 each from The War Store.

Thanks again guys.

Reaver I had looked at the Lehr Panzer Division before I looked at the Fuhrer one and the only reason I did not go with it was because of the mechanized infantry.

I am pretty much gonna blow my summer gaming budget on the tanks and support options and I was not too keen on buying trucks/halftracks. I was not sure if I could field the infantry in that list without the transport vehicles for them. I know that sometimes it is an option with AT and Artillery guns to leave them off the table, but I figured you still had to have the models with you?

Lanrak thanks for the advice about running the 10 panzers instead of a less than a full squad. It see what you mean about the morale checks and I didn't realize at first that the cost scales down per extra model you bring.

Ghaz thank you for that link. I ordered a box already!

http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=4235

Cost about the same as you'd be paying for the two units of Grenadiers, both money and points-wise. Also there are benefits to having mobile infantry, especially in an armored company.

If you go to page 22 of PttM there is a non mechanised infantry list too (well optional trucks)

MrMcAwesome wrote:
but I figured you still had to have the models with you?

If they don't go on the table you don't need them.