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I am preparing a new table of alliances, it covers in detail the different chapters sm, the legions of chaos, Craftworlds and regiments of the Astra. this will be a nice printed sheet A2 I think
I'm doing work in excel, someone already has ideas or has done the same job?
if something of the table you think it is wrong let me know.
thanks

Is this going to be an "Elves and Humans get all the goodies, the other xenos can get bent" sort of thing?

 Kain wrote:
Is this going to be an "Elves and Humans get all the goodies, the other xenos can get bent" sort of thing?

Yes.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Is this going to be an "Elves and Humans get all the goodies, the other xenos can get bent" sort of thing?

Yes.

I'm hopeful enough to give him(her?) the benefit of the doubt.

Why yes I have made my own alliance Chart.

Link: http://j3fwt.deviantart.com/#/art/Allies-Matrix-435414404?hf=1

Why are there random symbols in various cells?

Also grey's not a good BB colour.

They're decorations, they all correspond to their row or column's army.

 J3f wrote:
They're decorations, they all correspond to their row or column's army.

That's just confusing.

also, what does LatD refer to in this chart?

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

 J3f wrote:
They're decorations, they all correspond to their row or column's army.

That's just confusing.

also, what does LatD refer to in this chart?

Lost and the Damned: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Lost_and_the_Damned

All the Army symbols share a common visual Motif. IG have Regimental Standard, Space Marines Have Shoulder Pads, Eldar have Corsair Flags, etc. Once you pick up on that it's a lot more intuitive.

I cannot, for the life of me, glean much information from that chart at a glance, it's really not reader friendly.

The decorative symbols thrown about willy-nilly don't help matters in the slightest.

 morganfreeman wrote:
I cannot, for the life of me, glean much information from that chart at a glance, it's really not reader friendly.

The decorative symbols thrown about willy-nilly don't help matters in the slightest.

The choice of colouring is also a bit off.

Grey is not a colour associated with friendship and camaraderie. Blue is not the first colour that comes to mind when I think "desperate alliance."

 Kain wrote:

 morganfreeman wrote:
I cannot, for the life of me, glean much information from that chart at a glance, it's really not reader friendly.

The decorative symbols thrown about willy-nilly don't help matters in the slightest.

The choice of colouring is also a bit off.

Grey is not a colour associated with friendship and camaraderie. Blue is not the first colour that comes to mind when I think "desperate alliance."

I used the same color scheme from the 6th edition BRB.

I've Changed the Color Scheme to make more sense like 7th edition. I also made a clean version: http://j3fwt.deviantart.com/#/art/Allies-Matrix-Clean-455704454?hf=1



Clean

Not sure on how crons and orks are gona work together. Fluffwise crons are increadibly hard to beat. And when an ork sees something that's increadibly hard to beat one and only thing he desires is TO BEAT IT!

That's much easier to read; thank you!

Other than that I'd also advise removing the symbols from -all- sides of the chart.. It just makes it kind of difficult to understand at a glance. That was one of the main things that was throwing me off when I first looked at it, though the completely random symbols and odd colorations didn't exactly help either.

How are these?

Original: http://j3fwt.deviantart.com/art/Allies-Matrix-435414404
Clean: http://j3fwt.deviantart.com/art/Allies-Matrix-Clean-455704454
Minimal: http://j3fwt.deviantart.com/art/Allies-Matrix-Minimal-455984890

Original


Clean


Minimal

Nice job.

I like the 'clean' and the 'minimal'. The one with decorations is sort of confusing until you realise they mean nothing.

Some random personal opinions:
1) I like the inclusion of Lost & Damned. If anything, they can be proxied with IG.
2) It is taken from the current 'official' chart, but I just don´t feel it is right. Necrons + Tau and Necrons + Chaos (L&D, CSM) being Allies of Convenience: I don´t see it. The same goes for Eldar and Dark Eldar being Brothers. Allies of Convenience sounds better.
3) Daemons: I think they should be Come the Apocalypse with everyone outside of Chaos. They are quite obvious abominations from Hell, I can´t imagine anyone else but a Chaos follower fighting at their side.
4) Sisters: I think they should be Come the Apocalypse with everyone outside the Imperium, I just can´t imagine Sisters and Dark Eldar or Necrons fighting together. Also, I don´t see why they are Come the Apocalypse with GK. Sure, GK killed some Sisters, but this is business as usual for GK, and the Sisters do not know it. I will give them Allies of Convenience instead. Pushing it a little further, I will give them Allies of Convenience with all forms of Space Marines.
5) Lost and the Damned and CSM should have the same results. The only difference is with the Dark Eldar, but I don´t see the reason.
6) I think radical Inquisitors should be able to ally with many Xenos as Allies of Convenience or Desperate Allies. Pushing it a little, I will happily welcome an alliance between Inquisitors and Chaos. Lots of Inquisitors have fallen in the background.
7) I am missing Blood Angels and Dark Angels. The first does not need a separate row, but Dark Angels do not consort with the Xeno. "The Dark Angels are also notoriously intolerant of non-humans and will refuse to fight alongside armies that include alien races." So instead of giving the Wolves a different row I will just get the Sisters to Allies of Convenience with Marines (the only difference between Marines and Wolves) and then create a different row for Dark Angels and similarly uncompromising Astartes (like, say, Black Templars).

 Kain wrote:
Is this going to be an "Elves and Humans get all the goodies, the other xenos can get bent" sort of thing?

Nids are doomed in this regard.

Do not think of it as a problem. It is somehow a proof that they are the only true Xeno (a word meaning 'alien', 'strange') faction standing. It is sort of a privilege.


Coming to think of it, a sudden Battle Brothers with the Lost and the Damned (provided you don´t get any Mark or Monstruous Creature) sounds interesting...

It's always bothered me that Corsairs are Desperate allies with Orks, but they certainly don't deserve their own column, and Craftworlders seem like Desperate allies with Orks.

More specifically with Craftworlders, fluffwise, they would be Allies of Convenience (always manipulating those lesser races, y'know), but still have the rules of Desperate Allies.

It seems to be there should be seperate Factions for Imperials not just along Codex lines.

For instance, there would probably be something like:
Imperium Military: SM, IG, Knights, SW, BA
Inquisition: Inqisitors, GK, SOB, SM
Splinters: SMs, IG, Knights
Traitors: SM, IG, Knights
Cult<of Faction>: IG

Factions in more than 1 category must pick at list creation.

Inquisition could BB with Inquisition or AoC Military. Possibly DA to Eldar (Uthwe might work with them),

Military could ally with some Xenos, but poorly (probably always Desperate)

Splinter factions would be those who might invoke the wrath of the Inquisition. Desperate or CtA with Inquisition, but Convenience with some Xenos

Traitors basically use the CSM chart (might take some changes, but unlikely). Basically, they've fallen to Chaos. We don't really need a separate codex for Traitor Guard or newly fallen Marines, although Maelific Demo and some Chaos allies might be appropriate.

The last one would be like Gue'sava serving Tau or Genestealer cults for Nids. Basically, they would use the chart for that faction (although only a few factions could actually do this). Mostly just IG here. Some parts of their Dex might not make complete sense (would a Primaris psyker still be throwing around Prescience as part of a Genestealer cult? Would Commisars lead Gue'sava to war?) but a good hobbyist would have those cases covered.

 da001 wrote:
Nice job.

I like the 'clean' and the 'minimal'. The one with decorations is sort of confusing until you realise they mean nothing.

Some random personal opinions:
1) I like the inclusion of Lost & Damned. If anything, they can be proxied with IG.
2) It is taken from the current 'official' chart, but I just don´t feel it is right. Necrons + Tau and Necrons + Chaos (L&D, CSM) being Allies of Convenience: I don´t see it. The same goes for Eldar and Dark Eldar being Brothers. Allies of Convenience sounds better.
3) Daemons: I think they should be Come the Apocalypse with everyone outside of Chaos. They are quite obvious abominations from Hell, I can´t imagine anyone else but a Chaos follower fighting at their side.
4) Sisters: I think they should be Come the Apocalypse with everyone outside the Imperium, I just can´t imagine Sisters and Dark Eldar or Necrons fighting together. Also, I don´t see why they are Come the Apocalypse with GK. Sure, GK killed some Sisters, but this is business as usual for GK, and the Sisters do not know it. I will give them Allies of Convenience instead. Pushing it a little further, I will give them Allies of Convenience with all forms of Space Marines.
5) Lost and the Damned and CSM should have the same results. The only difference is with the Dark Eldar, but I don´t see the reason.
6) I think radical Inquisitors should be able to ally with many Xenos as Allies of Convenience or Desperate Allies. Pushing it a little, I will happily welcome an alliance between Inquisitors and Chaos. Lots of Inquisitors have fallen in the background.
7) I am missing Blood Angels and Dark Angels. The first does not need a separate row, but Dark Angels do not consort with the Xeno. "The Dark Angels are also notoriously intolerant of non-humans and will refuse to fight alongside armies that include alien races." So instead of giving the Wolves a different row I will just get the Sisters to Allies of Convenience with Marines (the only difference between Marines and Wolves) and then create a different row for Dark Angels and similarly uncompromising Astartes (like, say, Black Templars).

 Kain wrote:
Is this going to be an "Elves and Humans get all the goodies, the other xenos can get bent" sort of thing?

Nids are doomed in this regard.

Do not think of it as a problem. It is somehow a proof that they are the only true Xeno (a word meaning 'alien', 'strange') faction standing. It is sort of a privilege.


Coming to think of it, a sudden Battle Brothers with the Lost and the Damned (provided you don´t get any Mark or Monstruous Creature) sounds interesting...

Necrons, Tau, and Orks also got bent by the new allied table.

Not enough, specially for Necrons.

A true xeno faction should be on its own unless it is specifically described as firmly believing in something like 'all races unite'. And in this case there should be rules to field them with multiple xeno allies.

Tau and Necrons started like two opposite ideals for xeno species, but eventually lost their uniqueness. I will gladly see the Necron turning back to 'everyone else is nothing' and the Tau getting rules for Nicassar, Demiurg, Tarellian, Hrenian and the rest.

I think GW heard their customers´ complaints in this regard. For two years we have seen friedship among the stars, but they have toned it down a bit now.

 da001 wrote:
Not enough, specially for Necrons.

A true xeno faction should be on its own unless it is specifically described as firmly believing in something like 'all races unite'. And in this case there should be rules to field them with multiple xeno allies.

Tau and Necrons started like two opposite ideals for xeno species, but eventually lost their uniqueness. I will gladly see the Necron turning back to 'everyone else is nothing' and the Tau getting rules for Nicassar, Demiurg, Tarellian, Hrenian and the rest.

I think GW heard their customers´ complaints in this regard. For two years we have seen friedship among the stars, but they have toned it down a bit now.

Well on 1d4chan I envisage creating fandexes for the forgotten parts of 40k lore.

In addition to Tyranid, Dark Angel, and Sister of battle fandexes we have a Squat codex we're working on, and I've put in other races I've felt worth giving a fandex to on the allies chart.

For the Tau the preliminary armies considered as part of the "Forces of the Tau Empire" are the Tau, Kroot, Gue'Ves'a, and assorted auxiliaries.

Chaos has "The Lost and the Damned, the Chaos Legions, Renegade Space Marines, and Chaos Daemons"

The Eldar are broken up into "Exodites, Harlequins, Corsairs, and Craftworld Eldar" with the Dark Eldar being considered to have too different an outlook to be lumped together with them. Although to be fair I think that could be said of all the Eldar subsets.

Check it.

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Codex_-_Squats

Nice.

Thanks for the link, it is quite a lot of work.

 da001 wrote:
Nice.

Thanks for the link, it is quite a lot of work.

The /tg/ motto is that we get gak done.

 J3f wrote:
Why yes I have made my own alliance Chart.

Link: http://j3fwt.deviantart.com/#/art/Allies-Matrix-435414404?hf=1

Spoiler:

Your chart is bad and you should feel bad. Just to point out a few issues

*Inquisition is battle bros with space wolves (it isn't like they fought a big war as recently as the first war for Armageddon and ignore the codex Astartes completely)
*Space Wolves are allies of convenience with Grey Knights just like all other marines (it isn't like they once killed a Grandmaster of the Grey Knights for killing possibly tainted civilians)
*Inquisition is desperate allies with Eldar, and come the apocalypse with all other non-Imperial factions except Tau (who they are allies of convenience with for some reason)
*Chaos can't get Guard allies outside of a crappy list from FW which is heavily outdated and only represents poorly equipped renegades as opposed to recent traitors (eg. the Volscani Cataphracts)
*Necrons are allies of convenience with Chaos (Necrons don't hate Chaos apparently, in fact they don't mind working together at all)
*Dark Eldar are allies of convenience with Chaos (Dark Eldar have talked it over and Slaanesh agreed to settle his differences with them)

Honestly the whole chart is pretty much "Good guys get everything, bad guys can just suck it up."

Honestly I would probably set up these basic requirements for an allies chart
>Eldar and Dark Eldar are desperate allies with CSM (they are still mortals and have individual desires outside of helping their gods so can potentially be negotiated with) and come the apocalypse with daemons
>Guard is at least allies of convenience for Tau and CSM to represent gue'vesa and traitor guard respectively
>Inquisition is at least allies of convenience with Space Wolves, Grey Knights are at least Desperate Allies
>"Bad Guy" factions have mostly equal opportunity to ally as the "Good Guy" factions. CSM, Daemons, Dark Eldar, and Necrons aren't left out just because

I thought the symbols within the chart were "exceptions" or notable units with special collusions - for example Space Marines + Inquisition = Grey Knights, who'd be Battle Brothers (or +1 level closer to being friendlies, where normally they'd be Allies of Convience).

I think that'd actually be an interesting way to do the chart. Have the base intermix at some level. Say Imperial Guard x Orcs = Desperate Allies, but if you put the icon for Blood Axes there, then you could have a Imperial Guard x Blood Axe = Allies of Convenience.

 Stormonu wrote:
I thought the symbols within the chart were "exceptions" or notable units with special collusions - for example Space Marines + Inquisition = Grey Knights, who'd be Battle Brothers (or +1 level closer to being friendlies, where normally they'd be Allies of Convience).

I think that'd actually be an interesting way to do the chart. Have the base intermix at some level. Say Imperial Guard x Orcs = Desperate Allies, but if you put the icon for Blood Axes there, then you could have a Imperial Guard x Blood Axe = Allies of Convenience.

It's too many rules. If I were to do that I'd have to also give them Consequences like the Red Hunters. If there weren't any downside everyone would paint or proxy their Eldar as Corsairs so they could get their Taudar back.

CW Eldar are more aligned with and have more similar doctrines with Tau than Corsairs do by a wide margin... Now, if we were talking Orks or Renegades, that wouldn't be true.

(Besides, Corsairs have completely different sets of options.

I would like to see something for Gue'vessa, but on the whole it's rather good.