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2014/05/21 21:03:21
Subject: Bulls 3 Matadors 0 or, Why you shouldn't get into an arena with a bull for "sport"
I fully support any animal's attempt to stomp a human to death. What is the point of being the apex predator if nothing challenges that every once in a while?
If you want to hunt, or bloodsport against an animal, or dominate him for personal recreation or entertainment, then don't complain when the animal bests you and stomps your skull in or mauls you.
It doesn't matter if 'bulls are dangerous' they basically bleed them out so the bull is fighting while on the verge of passing out. You dake a human, beat him to within an inch of his life then be entertained as someone goes in and dances around him as he fights to stay alive and ultimately dies... it isn't very interesting.
It is the final scene from gladiator where the emperor stabs and poisons Maximus so he can have what is assumed to be an 'easy win' but maximus summons up some unexpected speed and kills him before he dies. Good for Maximus, Good for bull.
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2014/05/21 21:05:11
Subject: Bulls 3 Matadors 0 or, Why you shouldn't get into an arena with a bull for "sport"
The bull is not an aggressive animal, and the reason he is angry and attempts to charge at the matador whilst in the bullring is mainly because he has been horrendously abused for the previous two days. In fact, what spectators see is not a normal, healthy bull, but a weakened, half-blinded and mentally destroyed version, whose chances of harming his tormentors is virtually nil. The bull has wet newspapers stuffed into his ears; vaseline is rubbed into his eyes to blur his vision; cotton is stuffed up his nostrils to cut off his respiration and a needle is stuck into his genitals. Also, a strong caustic solution is rubbed onto his legs which throws him off balance. This also keeps him from lying down on the ground. In addition to this, drugs are administered to pep him up or slow him down, and strong laxatives are added to his feed to further incapacitate him. He is kept in a dark box for a couple of days before he faces the ring: the purpose of this is to disorientate him. When he is let out of the box, he runs desperately towards the light at the end of the tunnel. He thinks that at last his suffering is over and he is being set free — instead, he runs into the bullring to face his killers and a jeering mob.
Do you have a better source than "stopbullfighting.org.uk"? With a name like that, I strongly suspect bias in any "facts" it puts out. As has already been pointed out, bulls are actually quite aggressive. In fact, I'd be more inclined to believe that that is simply a list of things which have happened to bulls, rather than a list of atrocities committed upon each individual bull.
See, you're trying to use people logic. DM uses Mandelogic, which we've established has 2+2=quack. - Aerethan
Putin.....would make a Vulcan Intelligence officer cry. - Jihadin
AFAIK, there is only one world, and it is the real world. - Iron_Captain
DakkaRank Comment: I sound like a Power Ranger.
TFOL and proud. Also a Forge World Fan.
I should really paint some of my models instead of browsing forums.
2014/05/21 21:06:12
Subject: Bulls 3 Matadors 0 or, Why you shouldn't get into an arena with a bull for "sport"
djones520 wrote: Animals ARE ours to do with what we wish. Do you think the lion stops and thinks about the ethical implications when he kills a zebra? And we're higher up on the food chain then that.
And sometimes a Zebra stomps a lion to death while it attempts to eat him... being victorious and reminding Lions why 'being higher on the food chain' doesn't mean much. Hence why they go after the sick and weak.
My Models: Ork Army: Waaagh 'Az-ard - Chibi Dungeon RPG Models! - My Workblog! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
RULE OF COOL: When converting models, there is only one rule: "The better your model looks, the less people will complain about it."
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MODELING FOR ADVANTAGE TEST: rigeld2: "Easy test - are you willing to play the model as a stock one? No? MFA."
2014/05/21 21:06:22
Subject: Bulls 3 Matadors 0 or, Why you shouldn't get into an arena with a bull for "sport"
It is the final scene from gladiator where the emperor stabs and poisons Maximus so he can have what is assumed to be an 'easy win' but maximus summons up some unexpected speed and kills him before he dies. Good for Maximus, Good for bull.
Bro there, Bronkelsch bro abrout some spoiler brolerts?
2014/05/21 21:08:15
Subject: Bulls 3 Matadors 0 or, Why you shouldn't get into an arena with a bull for "sport"
It is the final scene from gladiator where the emperor stabs and poisons Maximus so he can have what is assumed to be an 'easy win' but maximus summons up some unexpected speed and kills him before he dies. Good for Maximus, Good for bull.
Bro there, Bronkelsch bro abrout some spoiler brolerts?
Do you think there's someone on this forum who hasn't seen Gladiator yet?
It is the final scene from gladiator where the emperor stabs and poisons Maximus so he can have what is assumed to be an 'easy win' but maximus summons up some unexpected speed and kills him before he dies. Good for Maximus, Good for bull.
Bro there, Bronkelsch bro abrout some spoiler brolerts?
You can spoil a 15 year old movie? Darth Vader is Luke's Father, King Kong dies...?
My Models: Ork Army: Waaagh 'Az-ard - Chibi Dungeon RPG Models! - My Workblog! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
RULE OF COOL: When converting models, there is only one rule: "The better your model looks, the less people will complain about it."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
MODELING FOR ADVANTAGE TEST: rigeld2: "Easy test - are you willing to play the model as a stock one? No? MFA."
2014/05/21 21:13:41
Subject: Re:Bulls 3 Matadors 0 or, Why you shouldn't get into an arena with a bull for "sport"
OK, can we all agree that no matter what, it would be both cool and awesome if we pitted an enraged bull against a bunch of smurfs. STOMP STOMP STOMP yes!
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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2014/05/22 02:09:26
Subject: Bulls 3 Matadors 0 or, Why you shouldn't get into an arena with a bull for "sport"
I would give more links about why what DarkTraveller says is BS but you need to know Spanish, but the basics are that before a bull faces the matador a veterinary checks the bull for shaving of the horns (the tip of the horn is shaved a few cm to throw the bull off mark when charging) prior injuries that might substract strength, blindness... if the bull does not meet the minimuns it's returned to the corral and another selected. Also the bulls are shipped to all major Plaza de Toros the morning of the corrida so they are not kept in a cage for three days as suggested. I will say that probably there are places where the regulations are ignored but that's akin of driving over the speed limit. You know that what you are doing is wrong and your license to hold corridas might be revoqued if foind out.
Ofc the Corrida is stacked against the bull, but that's not because the bull has been "tortured" before but because the matador learns how to fight against the different encastes or sub breeds and some of them refuse to fight against some they fear (the Miuras have a fearsome reputation) So a matador has many chances to kill a bull but the bull only gets one and that experience is what it really counts at the end of the day.
M.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/22 02:10:58
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2014/05/22 02:38:34
Subject: Bulls 3 Matadors 0 or, Why you shouldn't get into an arena with a bull for "sport"
I would comment on this thread but apparently bullfighting fans are threatening to sue anyone they catch mocking their precious matadors on the Interwebs. Perhaps even those who dare remind them than human fatalities are also an integral part of their beloved blood sport.
War does not determine who is right - only who is left.
2014/05/22 14:53:37
Subject: Bulls 3 Matadors 0 or, Why you shouldn't get into an arena with a bull for "sport"
This thread has a scary amount of people who enjoy watching human deaths and injuries just as much as those who enjoy watching the bull fight...
See, you're trying to use people logic. DM uses Mandelogic, which we've established has 2+2=quack. - Aerethan
Putin.....would make a Vulcan Intelligence officer cry. - Jihadin
AFAIK, there is only one world, and it is the real world. - Iron_Captain
DakkaRank Comment: I sound like a Power Ranger.
TFOL and proud. Also a Forge World Fan.
I should really paint some of my models instead of browsing forums.
2014/05/22 15:43:41
Subject: Bulls 3 Matadors 0 or, Why you shouldn't get into an arena with a bull for "sport"
-Shrike- wrote: This thread has a scary amount of people who enjoy watching human deaths and injuries just as much as those who enjoy watching the bull fight...
Welcome to the creepy torture fantasies of Dakka.
You should see what they wish for to happen to criminals. Or people accused of being criminals at trial. Or even just suspects in crimes.
-Shrike- wrote: This thread has a scary amount of people who enjoy watching human deaths and injuries just as much as those who enjoy watching the bull fight...
Welcome to the creepy torture fantasies of Dakka.
You should see what they wish for to happen to criminals. Or people accused of being criminals at trial. Or even just suspects in crimes.
Don't worry, I read the original Zimmerman thread.
See, you're trying to use people logic. DM uses Mandelogic, which we've established has 2+2=quack. - Aerethan
Putin.....would make a Vulcan Intelligence officer cry. - Jihadin
AFAIK, there is only one world, and it is the real world. - Iron_Captain
DakkaRank Comment: I sound like a Power Ranger.
TFOL and proud. Also a Forge World Fan.
I should really paint some of my models instead of browsing forums.
2014/05/22 16:00:25
Subject: Bulls 3 Matadors 0 or, Why you shouldn't get into an arena with a bull for "sport"
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
-Shrike- wrote: This thread has a scary amount of people who enjoy watching human deaths and injuries just as much as those who enjoy watching the bull fight...
You know we could kill 2 birds with one stone here.
Take page from the Roman playbook and sentence criminals to fight in the arena against dangerous animals.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
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What happens to a bull that kills or defeats a matador? Is it treated to a lifetime as a stud of other dangerous bovines, killed as it has tasted human flesh, or does it have to fight more matadors?
Klawz-Ramming is a subset of citrus fruit?
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2014/05/22 17:11:40
Subject: Bulls 3 Matadors 0 or, Why you shouldn't get into an arena with a bull for "sport"
Gitzbitah wrote: What happens to a bull that kills or defeats a matador? Is it treated to a lifetime as a stud of other dangerous bovines, killed as it has tasted human flesh, or does it have to fight more matadors?
Actually, I think they put it down because it's dangerous.
Very few times a year a bull will be indultado, or 'pardoned', meaning his life is spared due to 'outstanding' behavior in the bullring, leading the audience to petition the president of the ring with white handkerchiefs. The bullfighter joins the petition, as it is a great honor to have a bull one has fought pardoned. The bull is then returned to the ranch where he will live out his days in the fields and in most cases will become a 'seed bull' (he is mated once with some 30 cows and the offspring are tested after four years for their efficacy in the ring). In these circumstances a bull's lifespan can be 20 to 25 years.
See, you're trying to use people logic. DM uses Mandelogic, which we've established has 2+2=quack. - Aerethan
Putin.....would make a Vulcan Intelligence officer cry. - Jihadin
AFAIK, there is only one world, and it is the real world. - Iron_Captain
DakkaRank Comment: I sound like a Power Ranger.
TFOL and proud. Also a Forge World Fan.
I should really paint some of my models instead of browsing forums.
2014/05/26 01:33:47
Subject: Bulls 3 Matadors 0 or, Why you shouldn't get into an arena with a bull for "sport"
-Shrike- wrote: This thread has a scary amount of people who enjoy watching human deaths and injuries just as much as those who enjoy watching the bull fight...
I think that's a cop-out, and a fairly lazy one at that. I don't enjoy seeing people injured or killed, unless of course they happen to be macho pricks who making a living from torturing animals for fun and entertainment, who are killed or injured by the very animals they are tormenting. There's a certain poetry in it I find compelling. Plus, it's just bloody funny.
The same would apply if a bear who was forced to dance ripped it's handler's face off. I'd watch that with a coke and a smile, and sleep like a fething baby afterwards.
Orlanth wrote: I have respect for Matadors, unlike most forms of hunting the prey has a fair chance of comeback.
That being said, I have no problem with most blood sports also. Humans are predators, predators hunt. Its a rural culture thing, and townies really ought to not impose their views on them.
It isn't as though the Matador is the only one in the ring with the bull, though.
My father told me of a bullfight he went to see as a young man in Mexico once, since he had heard so much of the romance and courage to be on exibition there. The horse one of the Picadors were riding was thrown against the wall of the areana and subjected to a slow disembowlement as the bull continually thrust its horns into it's gut.
The Matador was inept and kept stabbing the bull as it lay halpless, trying for the final kill, as the crowd booed his lack of skill. All in all, he said it was one of the most degenerate and cruel exibitions he had ever witnessed in his life, which is saying something, since he was in the Phillipines in WW2.
Automatically Appended Next Post: While in the Air Force, my brother in law and sister were stationed in the Azores where they witnessed and filmed a non lethal form of bullfighting.
It was comical to watch as the bull chased the people facing it into a shed and followed them in. Seconds later, people were boiling out the widows to escape it.
Seriously, I fully support people taking delight in the suffering of idiots who put themselves into the situation causing their misfortune. One of my favorite time-wasting activities is watching idiots falling off of motorcycles while doing tricks on YouTube.
"Holy Sh*&, you've opened my eyes and changed my mind about this topic, thanks Dakka OT!"
I can't believe the number of people in here who support killing animals for fun. Jeebus, guys. It's one of the classic red flags for psychopaths.
And while I'm not gleeful over the injuries sustained by the matadors, I am giving a metaphorical high five to the bulls.
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2014/05/27 08:30:23
Subject: Bulls 3 Matadors 0 or, Why you shouldn't get into an arena with a bull for "sport"
feeder wrote: I can't believe the number of people in here who support killing animals for fun. Jeebus, guys. It's one of the classic red flags for psychopaths.
And while I'm not gleeful over the injuries sustained by the matadors, I am giving a metaphorical high five to the bulls.
I was pretty certain psychopaths generally liked animals. I could be thinking of something else, though.
See, you're trying to use people logic. DM uses Mandelogic, which we've established has 2+2=quack. - Aerethan
Putin.....would make a Vulcan Intelligence officer cry. - Jihadin
AFAIK, there is only one world, and it is the real world. - Iron_Captain
DakkaRank Comment: I sound like a Power Ranger.
TFOL and proud. Also a Forge World Fan.
I should really paint some of my models instead of browsing forums.
2014/05/27 14:08:57
Subject: Bulls 3 Matadors 0 or, Why you shouldn't get into an arena with a bull for "sport"
A friend of mine in California is of Portuguese descent, and participates in the *bloodless* Portuguese bullfighting tradition.
He is one of the kind of guys shown at 13:00(ish). He isn't actually in this group in the video.
That being said.....
Bullfighting is barbaric in and of itself because its main goal is not to feed from or harvest the animal, it is to torment the animal and provide entertainment to the spectators.
There is no *good* reason for these kind of sports...bullfighting, cockfighting, dog fighting, etc.
Animals that naturally are put into situations where they must confront each other is one thing.....
But to artificially engineer deadly confrontation between animals, not to mention the humans that challenge them, is beyond disgusting.
Animals can be hunted for food. The whaling practices of the native americans is completely legitimate.
Deer hunters that use the deer to help feed their family are completely legitimate.
Big game hunters that do nothing but kill from a distance while hiding in a blind, just for the "sport" of it, and have no intention of using the animal as food/etc? Reprehensible.
If we are going to hunt animals, that's fine...provided we actually use/eat them. But we must also be good conservationists and ensure that their populations are not harmed through over-hunting or over-fishing, etc.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And this is quite an interesting video/documentary....
Look how they actually break the bull's tail at 23:00 and then cut off its ear shortly thereafter.
What's the point of doing that?
As she says....to try and get the animal aroused again to continue the show.
What kind of defense is there for this kind of thing? None.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Like Jens says while learning the fighting....
There is a certain beauty to it....the art of evading the bull with the cape...but why do they have to kill it? To torment it to death?
That is definitely the biggest problem I have with it.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/05/27 14:36:37
