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He is one of Farsight's bodyguards and now he can't even join the bodyguard. I play several armies, so I understand the angst against playing against ICs with MCs, but it sure seems like they went out of their way to screw over Tau and daemons, while buffing imperials to the moon and doing very little to the Eldar.

What is this rule you speak of?

Independent Characters cannot join MC's anymore.

I doubt that prevents IC MC's from joining other units however.

Yeah i was going to say O'vesa is an IC MC.
Does that mean he cant join another Rippy?
Not that i mind. Get rid of some of the 'stars'

Daemon characters could never join MCs. They could only join because the unit had more than one model.
It was really only cheesy tau shennanigins, and tyranid primes with carnifexes.

If Ovesa is still and IC (after FAQs) I would assume she can join other units.

ICs joining MCs was seen with Tau, Necron Spyders, and Nids (Carifexes and Tyrant Plus guard joined by Primes.)

Would be interesting to see if adding drones to a riptide make it majority not-MC and joinable?

valace2 wrote:
He is one of Farsight's bodyguards and now he can't even join the bodyguard. I play several armies, so I understand the angst against playing against ICs with MCs, but it sure seems like they went out of their way to screw over Tau and daemons, while buffing imperials to the moon and doing very little to the Eldar.

Seriously?

i suspect a FAQ about that one, yes ICs cannot attach to an MC anymore but hes literally the ONLY MC that is also an IC (afaik anyway). If it still applies to him, then his IC is nothing but a 2+ LOS to his shield drones if he got his armor penned.....still good but not nearly as awesome.

I wouldnt say 7th was to screw over Tau and Daemons yet. Rumors and tidbits of info leaked/released tends to lead that way, but the rulebook is what 200-300 pages of RULES? theres bound to be a bunch of stuff we dont know that make it all even out.
I would say though that they killed riptide spammers, since we cant psyker ally them or buffmander them anymore. Whooptidoo, it was an ultimate cheese anyway, and i damn near never did that tactic anyway lol.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i suspect a FAQ about that one, yes ICs cannot attach to an MC anymore but hes literally the ONLY MC that is also an IC (afaik anyway). If it still applies to him, then his IC is nothing but a 2+ LOS to his shield drones if he got his armor penned.....still good but not nearly as awesome.

I wouldnt say 7th was to screw over Tau and Daemons yet. Rumors and tidbits of info leaked/released tends to lead that way, but the rulebook is what 200-300 pages of RULES? theres bound to be a bunch of stuff we dont know that make it all even out.
I would say though that they killed riptide spammers, since we cant psyker ally them or buffmander them anymore. Whooptidoo, it was an ultimate cheese anyway, and i damn near never did that tactic anyway lol.

Well, he'll be able to join Crisis, Broadsides and other flavors of non-IC stuff. The problem comes up with The Eight and joining a unit he's already in with a Commander or joining O'Vesa to a unit that already possess a Commander...
I'm expecting the Tau FAQ to address it.

Even if 7th brings Tau to a lower standard, we'll need to adapt and survive. At least it won't be like 4th ed (glad I didn't play back then!).

 Vector Strike wrote:

Even if 7th brings Tau to a lower standard, we'll need to adapt and survive. At least it won't be like 4th ed (glad I didn't play back then!).

IMHO, the O'vesa Star was an overhyped mess. The Tau army is actually stronger without it.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:

Even if 7th brings Tau to a lower standard, we'll need to adapt and survive. At least it won't be like 4th ed (glad I didn't play back then!).

IMHO, the O'vesa Star was an overhyped mess. The Tau army is actually stronger without it.

Tried it yesterday, didn't stroke me as too amazing. Centstar with a toolbox commander, on the other hand... sadly, it's in the past now.

Tau got what they deserves if you ask me. 6th was a rulebook that made the tau victims of circumstance. The rulebook basically fed them cheese lists on a silver platter. And now that things are changing your going to see them get a boot up their rear end. I don't feel sorry for them and hope this teaches the fish people not to abuse any gifts they receive from our alien overlords.

valace2 wrote:
it sure seems like they went out of their way to screw over Tau

Removing the second-most broken combo in the game = screw over. More drama. Please.

I doubt they will FAQ anything. GW clearly don't want O'Vesa in the same unit as other IC and released 7th Edition solely to make Tau players cry. All the other changes were thrown in to try and distract the player base from this.

 ionusx wrote:
Tau got what they deserves if you ask me. 6th was a rulebook that made the tau victims of circumstance. The rulebook basically fed them cheese lists on a silver platter. And now that things are changing your going to see them get a boot up their rear end.

This isn't the case at all. The Tau has gained almost as many good things with 7th ed than it has lost. Missilesides are still brutal, markerlights still give the same buffs, Riptides are still killy, Fire Warrior Castles are better than before and you can take more stuff if you wish thankfully to Combined Arms (You think Triptide was bad? Well, say 'hi' to Hextide!).

Melee armies received zero meaningful buffs, shooting on the other hand was made even better a little bit. Some of the fast armies were hit by the nerfhammer (FMC Circus, White Scars). Overall, I can't see where the Tau was shafted, but maybe I missed something important ...

This reminds me of people complaining that Grey Knights got screwed by 6th and everyone else calling them silly.

Haven't seen Grey Knights dominating many tournaments for the last two years, have you?

And after five years, toiling away at the bottom of the barrel, it's amazing how much hatred Tau is getting after one year of cheese.

Poor little blue fishmen.

 Sigvatr wrote:

valace2 wrote:
it sure seems like they went out of their way to screw over Tau

Removing the second-most broken combo in the game = screw over. More drama. Please.

heh no kidding, when the rules are allowing you to break the game in ways the designers didn't intend for it to be broken, don't be suprised when it gets fixed

 AtoMaki wrote:

 ionusx wrote:
Tau got what they deserves if you ask me. 6th was a rulebook that made the tau victims of circumstance. The rulebook basically fed them cheese lists on a silver platter. And now that things are changing your going to see them get a boot up their rear end.

This isn't the case at all. The Tau has gained almost as many good things with 7th ed than it has lost. Missilesides are still brutal, markerlights still give the same buffs, Riptides are still killy, Fire Warrior Castles are better than before and you can take more stuff if you wish thankfully to Combined Arms (You think Triptide was bad? Well, say 'hi' to Hextide!).

Melee armies received zero meaningful buffs, shooting on the other hand was made even better a little bit. Some of the fast armies were hit by the nerfhammer (FMC Circus, White Scars). Overall, I can't see where the Tau was shafted, but maybe I missed something important ...

If you GtG now, you can't Overwatch. It doesn't affect us that badly, but it's still a buff to assault armies with these kind of weapons (but Snipers and Barrage lost Pinning).
Charge is less random: 2d6, -2" if crosses difficult terrain. Way better than 3d6, pick lesser 2.

'hextide' gave me an idea... Tetraide: Unbound list, only with Tetras and Riptides

 Vector Strike wrote:

Charge is less random: 2d6, -2" if crosses difficult terrain. Way better than 3d6, pick lesser 2.

This is almost a nerf to charging. So far, if you were 2" away from the enemy, you could charge them no matter what. From now on, even a 1" distance could be a failed charge with a snake eye and difficult terrain.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:

Charge is less random: 2d6, -2" if crosses difficult terrain. Way better than 3d6, pick lesser 2.

This is almost a nerf to charging. So far, if you were 2" away from the enemy, you could charge them no matter what. From now on, even a 1" distance could be a failed charge with a snake eye and difficult terrain.

that's true, but the standard roll was lower (6" in 6th, 8" now; both diff terrain)

Looks like defensive grenades still take away +A from charges (saw on ATT). But the Stealth bonus is gone

Regarding O'Vesa, we have this:

Leerjawise wrote:
Haven't seen it posted, but slight IC change, the wording is now "They cannot, however, join units that contain vehicles or monstrous creatures" instead of the previous vehicle squadron/single model unit wording

So, if you add him to a unit AFTER an IC already joined it, looks like it's ok. If for any reason you remove the IC, he cannot return unless O'Vesa leaves the unit as well prior to IC's return.
To get Commander + O'Vesa again, join Commander to another IC. O'Vesa in the sequence joins the unit. Finally, remove the originally joined IC.
Of course, it's YMDC material...

Read the new rulebook.

Tau's ultimate cheese got nerfed, outside that we really didnt get hurt at all. I personlly dont like the new Jink rule, though thats mainly because for some reason now you declare it BEFORE any HITS are rolled, rather than any wounds/pen/glance that Fliers had in 6th (essentially same rule, now its jink in general not just fliers). Meh, i can still hide my tanks behind a riptide for intervening model, or a ruin for a 4+ into a 3+ from dpods. Mainly jacks my Piranhas up.
Defensive grenades are da bomb now (badumm chhh!) lol. I will GLADLY take something i can throw 8" and if i even touch their unit, they have a chance to lose their WS/BS to 1 for a turn, effectively neutering that unit whether theyre melee or not. I almost never had the +1 cover actually help, as if i ever got assaulted i wasnt even shot beforehand by that unit, or they were 9" away and had Fleet to try and get that longer charge range in. And i still have no charge bonus for the chargee. Happy happy happy!

We lost every battle brother we had, and in fact almost every race is now Desperate Allies rather than Convenience.....for some reason. I never allied except for Farsight, so big deal on that lol.

Also i find it kinda unfair that people are going "Tau got what they deserve" - tau were far from the cheesiest army in the game, Eldar take that trophy two-fold. My FLGS has 3 tau players out of ~10 people, and all of us are about 50-50 win/lose whether we use cheese or not because our opponents actually learned how to face tau without list tailoring. Just cause you cant auto-defeat an army, doesnt mean theyre OP and need a nerf.

Sensor spines and a ruin-rich battlefield are our friends

O dear god yes lol. And what defines rubble is kinda vague, it almost replaces area terrain as a whole excluding patches of rough ground or forests lol. I know most of the area terrain we use at our FLGS is more or less rubble, since theyre rocky formations tacked on to a grassy plate. Usually use them as 5+ if on the base, 4+ if behind the rocks. Now theyre 4+ period lol.