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 Kavish wrote:
Wow! I didn't expect to get such a strong reaction. Nobody HAS to use the overpowered lists you know. If they do, tell them to GTFO. It's pretty simple to me. We have a pretty strong 40k scene here in Canberra, Australia. I have no shortage of opponents and can think of only two guys who play nasty lists (Venom spam, and the guy I ran into today who's Daemons army is now a daemon factory). I don't have to play those guys. And if I end up facing them at an event, it will be an interesting novelty to see what daemon spam is like (it will certainly look impressive). I've played against the venom spam guy before and it wasn't much fun, but since then I got a buch of drop pods, so he won't be staying out of my range anymore!

Great.

So, first the community splits in two. Competitive players on one side and casual/fluffy/narrative players on the other.

And then, I, a fluffy/narrative/whatever player, decide that Farsight Enclaves (or Mechanized Eldar) is the army I want to play. I just think it's awesome. And then you tell me to bugger off because the things I like happen to be too good for you.

So the community splits again.

But then I find a guy who doesn't mind that the army I like is OP, but he has a Transcendant C'tan. And I don't want to play with super heavies or gargantuans.

So it splits again.


But more importantly, for all players, it creates a situation where someone like you starts shaming someone like me because the rules designers at GW are incompetent, and feels justified in doing so. If I go to a chess club and use the Yugoslav attack, no one is going to call me a cheesy git, but if I play you and start summoning Daemons you're going to ragequit, call me a douche, and still be incapable of seeing that there just possibly might be something wrong with the game we're playing and that the problem is not limited to tournament play? Really?


But yeah, you have a great community in Canberra, and I'm sure it will remain like that forever. After all, it's not like GW's revenue in Australia fell by 20% over one year. Oh, hang on...

The issue at hand is that the crazy Unbound lists are legal. It might be a d-bag move to bring say 10 Riptides or whatever to a game, but it's *allowed*. Therein is the issue with an unbalanced game; balance is an agreement rather than something hardwired into the rules, and therefore subjective. You basically need to have a gentleman's agreement with every opponent you ever face that you won't try and make the game unfun for each other (and then hope it doesn't happen inadvertently due to 40k's randomness).

Telling the 10 Riptides guy to GTFO makes *you* the jerk, even if you're right (which IMO you still are), because you're the one telling somebody they can't play with what is a legal army. It would be another story if it was outright cheating, but it's not anymore.

 Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
Reaction at our FLGS, who've already run one tourney, seems overwhelmingly positive. Surprisingly so. Especially to the more dynamic, fluid nature of the game.

Restrictions?

 kronk wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:

(Side note: Still no friggin' legions)

Army lists for the Emperor's Children, Death Guard, Sons of Horus, World Eaters, Word Bearers, Night Lords, Iron Hands, Salamanders, Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, Imperial Fists and Raven Guard can be found in these 2 books. Bam.

LINK

Someone promote this man

That´s 30k.

Most Legions are mostly the same. And if you are searching for Chaos Legions, you will not find them there.

I really wish people would stop pointing to 30k and say "Here are your legion!". 30k is a *different game*.

WayneTheGame wrote:
30k is a *different game*.

Well, it uses the exact same core rulebook. I'd hardly call it a different game.

More like an expansion of codices.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I'm totally pumped for this edition.

I have a tournament with a bunch of newish players coming up in a few weeks. I can't wait to mercilessly crush every single one of them with my Infinite Daemons Summoning army.

I don't know if you're joking or being serious.

Fantastic

WayneTheGame wrote:
I really wish people would stop pointing to 30k and say "Here are your legion!". 30k is a *different game*.

Not to GW it isn't. Look at Word Bearers and tell me that isn't a Chaos Legion. And FW says all the legions will get more "chaosy" as the series moved forward. For crying out loud, in the era of unbound, what does a HH supplement matter?

 Lobukia wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:
I really wish people would stop pointing to 30k and say "Here are your legion!". 30k is a *different game*.

Not to GW it isn't. Look at Word Bearers and tell me that isn't a Chaos Legion. And FW says all the legions will get more "chaosy" as the series moved forward. For crying out loud, in the era of unbound, what does a HH supplement matter?

Looking at Word Bearers.... No this isn´t a Chaos Legion. At all. It is a Space Marine Legion with a few unique traits. My 5th edition WB were far more 'Word Beary' than anything I can do with 30k at this point. The differences between, say, Raven Guard and Word Bearers are similar to the differences between Raven Guard and Iron Hands. Which should be telling.

I am totally loving FW´s HH stuff, but they are not giving us Chaos Legions. Perhaps they will in the future but at this point 30k has only two armies: Mechanicus and Space Marines. Which, coming to think of it, is a really big problem on the long term.

On the other side, I totally agree on the "For crying out loud, in the era of unbound, what does a HH supplement matter?". Yeah, there should be any problem in playing Mechanicum 30k vs X 40k. I am not sure about SM 30k vs SM 40k. There are more than enough marines everywhere already.

 Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
Reaction at our FLGS, who've already run one tourney, seems overwhelmingly positive. Surprisingly so. Especially to the more dynamic, fluid nature of the game.

Yea! Yew! Positivity! That's what I like to hear!

Every time a new edition comes out, people on the internet say that the game is ruined and 40k is dead. Then it turns out to be good, and much fun is had. Quit with the doom and gloom guys!

 Kavish wrote:

 Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
Reaction at our FLGS, who've already run one tourney, seems overwhelmingly positive. Surprisingly so. Especially to the more dynamic, fluid nature of the game.

Yea! Yew! Positivity! That's what I like to hear!

Every time a new edition comes out, people on the internet say that the game is ruined and 40k is dead. Then it turns out to be good, and much fun is had. Quit with the doom and gloom guys!

7th ed is different and unique, just like every other codex and edition before it. We're concerned when we go for pick up games or tournaments, our worst fears become realized when someone brings an army so min/maxed it makes it terrible to play against (even if you win it's horrible to play against).

For casual fights, I'd be more forgiving. if I go to an Unbound tournament at 2000 points and someone brings 666 grots and wins because he drew the random objective cards that gives him Objectives VPs and we don't get to the third turn, that is what I fear the most.

Strategy cards are more auto lose/win than unlimited battle forged detachments or unbound armies IMO.

 Byte wrote:
Strategy cards are more auto lose/win than unlimited battle forged detachments or unbound armies IMO.

Agreed. I'm trying to figure out some slightly tweaked ground rules of the cards (like must discard and draw a new one each turn, or something) to keep it from being imbalanced. I doubt I'll settle on that, but the simpler, the better.

 Kavish wrote:

 Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
Reaction at our FLGS, who've already run one tourney, seems overwhelmingly positive. Surprisingly so. Especially to the more dynamic, fluid nature of the game.

Yea! Yew! Positivity! That's what I like to hear!

Every time a new edition comes out, people on the internet say that the game is ruined and 40k is dead. Then it turns out to be good, and much fun is had. Quit with the doom and gloom guys!

GW's financial reports say otherwise.

I Am SUPER Pumped!!! Saving for the rulebook now

I have played some games and seen several and 7th edition rocks, the new missions are fun. Everyone likes them in my area if you can play the game and stay away from the internet you will find that the game is fun. I haven't played a unbound army though but I am not concerned about it.

 Kavish wrote:
Yea! Yew! Positivity! That's what I like to hear!

Every time a new edition comes out, people on the internet say that the game is ruined and 40k is dead. Then it turns out to be good, and much fun is had. Quit with the doom and gloom guys!

6th wasn't good. 7th wasn't good. 5th was arguably not that good.

A shrinking customer base, falling sales, and a downward trend while the rest of the market segment is trending up don't leave a lot of room for positivity. Cheering on a determined loser doesn't help anybody.

There were people positive right up to the end of Fantasy, too.

 Seaward wrote:

 Kavish wrote:
Yea! Yew! Positivity! That's what I like to hear!

Every time a new edition comes out, people on the internet say that the game is ruined and 40k is dead. Then it turns out to be good, and much fun is had. Quit with the doom and gloom guys!

6th wasn't good. 7th wasn't good. 5th was arguably not that good.

A shrinking customer base, falling sales, and a downward trend while the rest of the market segment is trending up don't leave a lot of room for positivity. Cheering on a determined loser doesn't help anybody.

There were people positive right up to the end of Fantasy, too.

Yet your still playing. Last time I checked, fantasy isn't over. I don't play it but there is a dedicated community of WFB players around here. I sometimes fantasise (lol, bad pun) about getting into it, then I realise that I haven't the extra time nor money.

 Kavish wrote:

 Seaward wrote:

 Kavish wrote:
Yea! Yew! Positivity! That's what I like to hear!

Every time a new edition comes out, people on the internet say that the game is ruined and 40k is dead. Then it turns out to be good, and much fun is had. Quit with the doom and gloom guys!

6th wasn't good. 7th wasn't good. 5th was arguably not that good.

A shrinking customer base, falling sales, and a downward trend while the rest of the market segment is trending up don't leave a lot of room for positivity. Cheering on a determined loser doesn't help anybody.

There were people positive right up to the end of Fantasy, too.

Yet your still playing. Last time I checked, fantasy isn't over. I don't play it but there is a dedicated community of WFB players around here. I sometimes fantasise (lol, bad pun) about getting into it, then I realise that I haven't the extra time nor money.

Yes there is a dedicated community, but it's been dying. Look at sales, it went from the 3rd most selling wargame a while back to not even being in the top 5.

As per playing, I play, not sure about Seaward, he might or he might be here due to having armies but not enjoying the game anymore, but, thing is, the game isn't only about the rules. It's the customization + your guys + painting + the rules for the game + fluff + the game.

Most of us here have sunk at least a thousand into this hobby, very likely even more. It's a fallacy but we want to justify it, make it be worthwhile. Then there is the fact that, although it's diminishing, in many regions it's the only game people will play that is a wargame. Finally, there is charm to your guys + the fluff. So many post saying the rules suck but if you play this, play it for the fluff. I hate the game's rules, it hardly functions even for casual games and sucks for narrative games so badly that their "Forge the Narrative" makes me laugh. I can't remember a good edition but this one just feels worse with its blatant disregard for everything and continuously makes the Imperium more and more the shining good guys rather than the tyrannical despotic system that is just as bad as everybody else but many root for in the hopes it gets better. Also, there is a shrinking customer base. People are getting priced out, upset, angered, and the company doesn't really advertise. Oh wait it does in its own rulebooks.

Stoked to try out 7th, at first glance I love all the tweaks, psychic phase etc. Only thing that worries me is daemon summoning and invisibility but I will reserve judgement until a trial by fire occurs.

However, what I am most stoked on and continue to be entertained by possibly even more than 7th or 40k in general has been dakka's fever pitch nerd rage over the past week.

I just sold my Imperial Fist army and bought two Infinity armies today. And the rules and army builders are free on line!
So, I guess I did get pumped for this edition!

 Kavish wrote:

 Seaward wrote:

 Kavish wrote:
Yea! Yew! Positivity! That's what I like to hear!

Every time a new edition comes out, people on the internet say that the game is ruined and 40k is dead. Then it turns out to be good, and much fun is had. Quit with the doom and gloom guys!

6th wasn't good. 7th wasn't good. 5th was arguably not that good.

A shrinking customer base, falling sales, and a downward trend while the rest of the market segment is trending up don't leave a lot of room for positivity. Cheering on a determined loser doesn't help anybody.

There were people positive right up to the end of Fantasy, too.

Yet your still playing. Last time I checked, fantasy isn't over. I don't play it but there is a dedicated community of WFB players around here. I sometimes fantasise (lol, bad pun) about getting into it, then I realise that I haven't the extra time nor money.

No, I'm not. I haven't played a game of 40K since 5th ended, and I haven't bought a Games Workshop product since I bought the 6th Edition BRB.

I've enjoyed X-Wing instead.

And if you think Fantasy's a thriving game, I don't know what to tell you, aside from "Pay attention."

 MWHistorian wrote:
I just sold my Imperial Fist army and bought two Infinity armies today. And the rules and army builders are free on line!
So, I guess I did get pumped for this edition!

I guess getting pumped for another game is also a way to get pumped for 7th editon.

Not that I blame you, I have been unimpressed from what I have seen thus far.

 Tanakosyke22 wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
I just sold my Imperial Fist army and bought two Infinity armies today. And the rules and army builders are free on line!
So, I guess I did get pumped for this edition!

I guess getting pumped for another game is also a way to get pumped for 7th editon.

Not that I blame you, I have been unimpressed from what I have seen thus far.

lol he is fibbin why else would he still be here crying.

Now watch his gallery for more 40k to come :p

OgreChubbs wrote:

 Tanakosyke22 wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
I just sold my Imperial Fist army and bought two Infinity armies today. And the rules and army builders are free on line!
So, I guess I did get pumped for this edition!

I guess getting pumped for another game is also a way to get pumped for 7th editon.

Not that I blame you, I have been unimpressed from what I have seen thus far.

lol he is fibbin why else would he still be here crying.

Now watch his gallery for more 40k to come :p

You should really remember rule number one of Dakka. Be polite. There is no need to make an insulting comment regarding his mental state.

I don't think that word means what you think it does.

OgreChubbs wrote:

Now watch his gallery for more 40k to come :p

That doesn't mean that he is still playing, or even buying. I still occasionally paint 40k stuff (mostly 2nd ed guardsmen which I already own) and I have no intention of playing 40k until it gets some decent rules.

OgreChubbs wrote:

 Tanakosyke22 wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
I just sold my Imperial Fist army and bought two Infinity armies today. And the rules and army builders are free on line!
So, I guess I did get pumped for this edition!

I guess getting pumped for another game is also a way to get pumped for 7th editon.

Not that I blame you, I have been unimpressed from what I have seen thus far.

lol he is fibbin why else would he still be here crying.

Now watch his gallery for more 40k to come :p

Are you such a blind kool-aid drinker that you can't imagine someone leaving the game? Do you have any idea how desperate you sound? Sold my IF army along with a few Marines Malevelants and bought two entire infinity forces. Nomad and Adriana. I still have my SOB army which I'll play with a few close friends. But I will continue to post pics of my armies. Here's a pic I took of my Warmachine army that I started when I heard the rules for 7th.

If you think people leaving isn't a real thing or somehow good for 40k, you're sadly mistaken.
Next pic will by my Infinity armies.

I'm not a fan of the overall aesthetics of WM/H, but damn, those clockwork angel things (and the caster thing that goes with them) are damn sexy.

I'd do a force of those dude if I could make a diverse force of models that looked like that.