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Looking at the new psy tables a couple stood out to me as they probably did to everyone else: Invisibility, endurance and shroud. Now consider these on a decked out blob sqaud. Throw in a 4++ forcefield and a priest and it's almost unkillable. It can walk wherever it pleases without fear of reprisal. It has a 4++, 4+ FnP, Shrouding if they get into some terrain, they can only be snapshot at so no templates can touch them and tons of both firepower and melee capability and they are EW. If someone charges they even need 6s to hit them of I remember correctly. Now getting the 2 most important powers is not a guarantee but as cheap as their psykers are you can take enough to make sure you at least get the most important one in Invisibility. That alone makes any large, high damage output squad stupidly good. What do you guys think, is this good fun or too good? And what do you think about the new powers? Written on my phone so forgive the wall of text.

You have to get the power. Not a given, you can spend more points to improve the odds, but can still not get it and be left wishing you'd spent the points elsewhere.

Then you've got to cast it. Every turn? Not going to happen.
And your opponent can dispel it now.

It's good if you can get it, but I wouldn't rely on it.

A 4++ rerollable is good but hardly unkillable.

now invisible. thats basically unkillable.

However you have to still to
A) Roll for powers. so you are still stuck fishing.
B) Have to cast it in a way that is hard to counter now that DTW blessings is a thing
C) Not perils when casting all those spells. some of which are warp charge 2

meaning if you want to reliably get a power off you will need a lot of extra psyker bodies which start wrackin up points.

The blob it self doesn't exactly have super mega awesome melee capability or shooting but if you get them mid field and lock into a bunch of combats , you can effectively freeze the enemy army.

even better if you are bound. that way you may be able to contest and or even secure objectives in the center.

Yeah, at least when fishing for a power in a solid tree like Biomancy, you'll end up with something nice. When trying for invisibility, your results will be mixed at best.

Not a good call. Like Desubot already said, there are many things that can (and usually will) go wrong.

Sevrin Loth. Guaranteed invisibility and shroud. And a 2++ with re-roll to tank in CC.

Then fill up with Primaris Psykers to spam Biomancy, and worst case just adding to your WC pool.

If a blob has invisibility it doesn't need a force field.

I already allied my CSMs to daemons for Bel'akor's invisibility.

 schadenfreude wrote:
If a blob has invisibility it doesn't need a force field.

except against tau markerlight spam and a full rank of fire warriors with fire blade and storm of fire power

Edit: i played my first game of 6th, forwarning on my 50man conscript blob was nice, but they still where getting wittled away, at the end of t6 i had like 3 guys left.

I never rolled invisiblity which makes me sad pandas. and holy balls psyocculuming the big blob was awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwsome.

It seems like a crime not to take astropaths now. All of the telepathy powers are good, and you get psychic shriek for free (two powers! no more choosing), and your astropath and wyrdvanes can now cast two spells a turn.

Across the board, the disciplines have been balanced so you're much less likely to get stuck with a junk power.

 TheSilo wrote:
It seems like a crime not to take astropaths now. All of the telepathy powers are good, and you get psychic shriek for free (two powers! no more choosing), and your astropath and wyrdvanes can now cast two spells a turn.

Across the board, the disciplines have been balanced so you're much less likely to get stuck with a junk power.

Pyromancy's still pretty gak.

Pyro is useful when you need some cover-ignoring stuff, and you are close-range oriented.
Too bad blood angels are the ones without it, they were the ones who could milk it the most.

Though, and agressive army should consider it against evenmys who got heavy cover boosts.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Pyro is useful when you need some cover-ignoring stuff, and you are close-range oriented.
Too bad blood angels are the ones without it, they were the ones who could milk it the most.

Though, and agressive army should consider it against evenmys who got heavy cover boosts.

You know what else is good?

Guns.

Guns that don't have the opportunity cost of other, better disciplines.

For the Guard, Eradicators and Hellhounds can fit that bill, and you really trying for buffs.

 Kain wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Pyro is useful when you need some cover-ignoring stuff, and you are close-range oriented.
Too bad blood angels are the ones without it, they were the ones who could milk it the most.

Though, and agressive army should consider it against evenmys who got heavy cover boosts.

You know what else is good?

Guns.

Guns that don't have the opportunity cost of other, better disciplines.

For the Guard, Eradicators and Hellhounds can fit that bill, and you really trying for buffs.

Yea, I was a little disappointed in the pyromancy chart, there are too many weak powers in that discipline and no one is taking a psyker just to get a heavy flamer equivalent power. If fiery form were the primaris power (i.e. 4+ invul, re-roll to wound with pyromancy), then it'd be a good discipline, since you'd have an easy invulnerable save and all your pyro spells would re-roll to wound. As-is, unless you've got a ML 2 or 3 psyker going all out on pyromancy, you're only ever going to get that benefit on a heavy flamer equivalent attack. IG can already put more flamers on the field than anyone else, with PCS, SWS, vets, blobs, etc. I'm already putting a heavy flamer everywhere I can in my army, I don't need to shell out 60 points for wyrdvanes to flame breath people.

Biomancy is much improved, 'Nids are going to be spamming that one like crazy. Unfortunately Wyrdvanes will be pretty much useless if you land on warp speed, but the primaris power is very good and any other one in that discipline will be helpful.

Divination is still good, but not an auto-take.

Santic Daemonology is too hit-or-miss, with a primaris power that only affects demons, hammerhand which is a weaker version of iron arm, purge soul which is the most work to inflict one wound.

Malefic Daemonology is such a 4th wall shattering discipline for a loyalist guard player that I refuse to take it or acknowledge it.

Telekinesis is good.

Telepathy is beastly now that psychic shriek isn't testing against the astropath's crummy ld 7.

 TheSilo wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Pyro is useful when you need some cover-ignoring stuff, and you are close-range oriented.
Too bad blood angels are the ones without it, they were the ones who could milk it the most.

Though, and agressive army should consider it against evenmys who got heavy cover boosts.

You know what else is good?

Guns.

Guns that don't have the opportunity cost of other, better disciplines.

For the Guard, Eradicators and Hellhounds can fit that bill, and you really trying for buffs.

Yea, I was a little disappointed in the pyromancy chart, there are too many weak powers in that discipline and no one is taking a psyker just to get a heavy flamer equivalent power. If fiery form were the primaris power (i.e. 4+ invul, re-roll to wound with pyromancy), then it'd be a good discipline, since you'd have an easy invulnerable save and all your pyro spells would re-roll to wound. As-is, unless you've got a ML 2 or 3 psyker going all out on pyromancy, you're only ever going to get that benefit on a heavy flamer equivalent attack. IG can already put more flamers on the field than anyone else, with PCS, SWS, vets, blobs, etc. I'm already putting a heavy flamer everywhere I can in my army, I don't need to shell out 60 points for wyrdvanes to flame breath people.

Biomancy is much improved, 'Nids are going to be spamming that one like crazy. Unfortunately Wyrdvanes will be pretty much useless if you land on warp speed, but the primaris power is very good and any other one in that discipline will be helpful.

Divination is still good, but not an auto-take.

Santic Daemonology is too hit-or-miss, with a primaris power that only affects demons, hammerhand which is a weaker version of iron arm, purge soul which is the most work to inflict one wound.

Malefic Daemonology is such a 4th wall shattering discipline for a loyalist guard player that I refuse to take it or acknowledge it.

Telekinesis is good.

Telepathy is beastly now that psychic shriek isn't testing against the astropath's crummy ld 7.

Sadly to say Tyranids don't get Biomancy or anything besides a single rather boring table.

Meanwhile GeeDubs does nothing about Daemons abusing it.

Fair and balanced my ass.

I can see Guard lists allying in Grey knights to counter people who want to go full heretical, since Grey Knights offer at least one ML dice for every slot you take from them and can offer you most of the better disciplines save for Biomancy (why the GKs don't get biomancy but space marines do when the GKs are supposed to be the master psykers of the Imperium mystifies me). In addition they should also be decent counter-assaulters against what few assault focused lists remain.

If I'm ever allied with an imperial player and he starts summoning demons onto the table, I am turning my guns on him before my commissars start executing everyone in my army.

 TheSilo wrote:
If I'm every allied with an imperial player and he starts summoning demons onto the table, I am turning my guns on him before my commissars start executing everyone in my army.

Eldar summoning daemons of Slaanesh who willingly and completely obey the Farseer's orders and Autarch's battle plans. Horrors of Tzeentch being conjured into being by Tigurius and inspired by the words of Cassius.

Can you feel the narrative being forged?

 Kain wrote:

 TheSilo wrote:
If I'm every allied with an imperial player and he starts summoning demons onto the table, I am turning my guns on him before my commissars start executing everyone in my army.

Eldar summoning daemons of Slaanesh who willingly and completely obey the Farseer's orders and Autarch's battle plans. Horrors of Tzeentch being conjured into being by Tigurius and inspired by the words of Cassius.

Can you feel the narrative being forged?

No! It hurts too much! The Emperor is my shield! The Emperor is my shield!

 TheSilo wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 TheSilo wrote:
If I'm every allied with an imperial player and he starts summoning demons onto the table, I am turning my guns on him before my commissars start executing everyone in my army.

Eldar summoning daemons of Slaanesh who willingly and completely obey the Farseer's orders and Autarch's battle plans. Horrors of Tzeentch being conjured into being by Tigurius and inspired by the words of Cassius.

Can you feel the narrative being forged?

No! It hurts too much! The Emperor is my shield! The Emperor is my shield!

Well at least the space marines aren't merrily skipping along side by side with filthy xenos anymore.

Nope, just daemons...

Kain, how do I keep finding you like this? We need to forge harder dammit!

Edit: Yeah, I was going to suggest Belly (because, feth it, not like the FoC matters anymore), but Sevvy is probably a better bet.

 liquidjoshi wrote:
Nope, just daemons...

Kain, how do I keep finding you like this?

Edit: Yeah, I was going to suggest Belly (because, feth it, not like the FoC matters anymore), but Sevvy is probably a better bet.

It's because my wit and charm has it's own gravitational pull.

 TheSilo wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 TheSilo wrote:
If I'm every allied with an imperial player and he starts summoning demons onto the table, I am turning my guns on him before my commissars start executing everyone in my army.

Eldar summoning daemons of Slaanesh who willingly and completely obey the Farseer's orders and Autarch's battle plans. Horrors of Tzeentch being conjured into being by Tigurius and inspired by the words of Cassius.

Can you feel the narrative being forged?

No! It hurts too much! The Emperor is my shield! The Emperor is my shield!

I would just assume that the Eldar had fallen to Chaos, or that the battle was playing out in a reality where Tigurius had fallen. All of the games are just "what ifs" based in the setting anyway.

Then why do we have a setting at all?

It's obviously completely and utterly useless insofar as defining anything in the Universe.

 Trickstick wrote:

 TheSilo wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 TheSilo wrote:
If I'm every allied with an imperial player and he starts summoning demons onto the table, I am turning my guns on him before my commissars start executing everyone in my army.

Eldar summoning daemons of Slaanesh who willingly and completely obey the Farseer's orders and Autarch's battle plans. Horrors of Tzeentch being conjured into being by Tigurius and inspired by the words of Cassius.

Can you feel the narrative being forged?

No! It hurts too much! The Emperor is my shield! The Emperor is my shield!

I would just assume that the Eldar had fallen to Chaos, or that the battle was playing out in a reality where Tigurius had fallen. All of the games are just "what ifs" based in the setting anyway.

At that point you may as well completely jettison the lore aspect of the game and just call it "Space war 40000" and rename all the factions "space elves, evil space elves, armored space soldiers, regular space soldiers, space demons, space bugs, space utilitarians, space mummies, and space orks" and excise all the background from the codices, games, rulebooks, RPGs, and what not.

Because it's clearly no boundary for "Forging da narrative hurr."

That's kind of what I do anyways. I'll make my own Imperial Guard... With Blackjack! And Hookers!

Or rather, I prefer to my lore to be much more nebulous and lacking in hard facts and playable characters than average. Average Joe Space Marine company B going traitor is much less immersion breaking than Super Space Marine Ultra Captain Purity of the Ultra-good-Ultramarines doing so.

The setting exists as a backdrop, against which you can create your own stories. The 40k galaxy is so vast that pretty much any narrative is possible with a little thought and effort.

Yes, but in my canon, Tigurius is not a traitor. But my opponent can still pop him for a Bloodthirster.

And just like that, the magic is gone.

 liquidjoshi wrote:
Yes, but in my canon, Tigurius is not a traitor. But my opponent can still pop him for a Bloodthirster.

And just like that, the magic is gone.

Maybe he isn't a traitor, he just delved too greedily and too deeply. Or it isn't Tigurius. Or he is from an alternate dimension. Or it is a dream...

Ok, so that may be too far.

 Trickstick wrote:
The setting exists as a backdrop, against which you can create your own stories. The 40k galaxy is so vast that pretty much any narrative is possible with a little thought and effort.

Forge a narrative where Necrons, Tyranids, Eldar, Orks, and Grey Knights are fighting against more Grey Knights, Daemons, Sisters of Battle, Dark Eldar, and Tau in an unbound list.

Without breaking rules of the setting like no SoB or Grey Knight falling to Chaos, all Eldar and Necrons hating each other to the point of killing one another on sight, and Tyranids eating anyone and everyone.

 Kain wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
The setting exists as a backdrop, against which you can create your own stories. The 40k galaxy is so vast that pretty much any narrative is possible with a little thought and effort.

Forge a narrative where Necrons, Tyranids, Eldar, Orks, and Grey Knights are fighting against more Grey Knights, Daemons, Sisters of Battle, and Tau in an unbound list.

Without breaking rules of the setting like no SoB or Grey Knight falling to Chaos, all Eldar and Necrons hating each other to the point of killing one another on sight, and Tyranids eating anyone and everyone.

Dammit Kain, forge HARDER!

What about those Grey Knights that can legit work with Chaos Daemons? The one thing they're meant to destroy?

Sorry, I must not be forging hard enough.