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 Leth wrote:


I could also argue that Team America took one guard main and one allied guard.

In addition almost every team has a blob guard on it.

I think guard are very strong and I have done pretty well with them as my allies(dont have enough kriegers to run them as main......yet). However I think that as with everything imperial you need to take advantage of your allies to be a strong competitor.

I am not saying Guard is not popular army. It is very popular. However, it has very bad performance so far and I am really curious how the ETC will turn out. I dont believe Guard is strong. When I go through its codex and then through other codices I am very sceptical about it. I can be wrong, of course, but so far I was quite right in my expectations. We will see. About guard and its allies - i believe its best ally is Inquisition - you take a few henchmen and rhinos and inquisitors for extra WC and spellcasting.

 TheSilo wrote:

That said, our mediocre elites and fast attack slots are going to be major liabilities in 7th. We don't have the hard punching units to assassinate enemy warlords or blunt an enemy assault. And the 10 rear armor on Leman Russes is a huge liability against assault units, my entire tank commander squad goes up in smoke to krak or melta assaults (bye 300+ points).

Just to point out, we can field stromtroopers now in almost industrial numbers; one slot can be filled by a platoon of ST, so up to 35 for each slot, so 105 bodies in total.

Yes, I realise that cost a pretty coin in terms of points, but still, a bunch of them landing here and there in your opponent's army is a matter of concern.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:

 TheSilo wrote:

That said, our mediocre elites and fast attack slots are going to be major liabilities in 7th. We don't have the hard punching units to assassinate enemy warlords or blunt an enemy assault. And the 10 rear armor on Leman Russes is a huge liability against assault units, my entire tank commander squad goes up in smoke to krak or melta assaults (bye 300+ points).

Just to point out, we can field stromtroopers now in almost industrial numbers; one slot can be filled by a platoon of ST, so up to 35 for each slot, so 105 bodies in total.

Yes, I realise that cost a pretty coin in terms of points, but still, a bunch of them landing here and there in your opponent's army is a matter of concern.

True, but that 18" range is a killer for Scions. Volley guns are fantastic, melta and plasma are good too, but for some reason you max at two per unit. And I don't get why Tempestors can't take rifles. It adds up to a lot of dead weight for such relatively pricey models. Scions can go one for one against same priced marines in an 18" firefight, but not at 12" or 24" and Scions fall apart in close combat, unlike MEQs. If every Tempestor had voice of command they'd be good, but as is it's too hard to get orders to your scions, even a Prime can only issue one order. To do real damage you need a CCS and Scion platoon delivered by Valkyrie, and that's just too many points/resources riding on an iffy game plan.

I'm looking through the ETC lists at the moment, unimpressed by most of what I see, a lot of "ooh, shiny! / wow, undercosted, this'll let me win!"

One poor guy is taking a double Executioner + PC sponson squadron without Pask or Kurov's Aquila, which I found pretty hilarious, those tanks are going to kill themselves and lose a load of firepower per turn.

Generally the overwhelming, repetitive trend seems to be make Pask a Punisher and give him a Punisher buddy, giving Pask Multi Meltas too. Honestly, it doesn't do anything for me. Having control of range can win games, and its far, far easier to do with an Executioner's 36'' range. Sure, against MSU you may struggle to score large numbers of hits, but a double tank maxed out squadron can put down about 12 AP2 shots still by that logic a turn, which will still work as a precision scalpel chipping away at key units. Way better than getting close and begging for Pask to rend something, followed by a quick and painful death.

Another trend is Yarrick, plus Priests and Lascannon blobs. Poor mobility and for multiple hundred points all you're getting outside of CQ prowess is effectively 5 BS3 Lascannon shots that at best ignore cover or have tank/monster hunter. I've never understood the HWT spam blob, if I wanted Lascannons I'd take Vendettas.

Really, there's almost no Vendettas from what I can see. Its still one of the best flyers in the game, and the Guard's best all round AT/AMC unit, with the fact it massacres flyers just the cherry on top. But oh no, it went up by 40 points, so it must be useless, right?

There's a lot of Conscript+ Priest blobs, which I can understand.

I don't understand why AM Mech is practically non-existent as a core, massing mobile scoring units with triple specials I feel is still quite viable.

 Mr.Omega wrote:
I'm looking through the ETC lists at the moment, unimpressed by most of what I see, a lot of "ooh, shiny! / wow, undercosted, this'll let me win!"

One poor guy is taking a double Executioner + PC sponson squadron without Pask or Kurov's Aquila, which I found pretty hilarious, those tanks are going to kill themselves and lose a load of firepower per turn.

5*1/6*1/3= He has about a 27% chance of losing a hull point a turn. I don't think they're going to die as often as you think they are.

Generally the overwhelming, repetitive trend seems to be make Pask a Punisher and give him a Punisher buddy, giving Pask Multi Meltas too. Honestly, it doesn't do anything for me. Having control of range can win games, and its far, far easier to do with an Executioner's 36'' range. Sure, against MSU you may struggle to score large numbers of hits, but a double tank maxed out squadron can put down about 12 AP2 shots still by that logic a turn, which will still work as a precision scalpel chipping away at key units. Way better than getting close and begging for Pask to rend something, followed by a quick and painful death.

You also don't need to worry about them getting hot, and Pask is better for hordes. If you can keep them at 24" range by the time you're don'e shooting, you don't have too much to worry about. Not easy, but doable.

Another trend is Yarrick, plus Priests and Lascannon blobs. Poor mobility and for multiple hundred points all you're getting outside of CQ prowess is effectively 5 BS3 Lascannon shots that at best ignore cover or have tank/monster hunter. I've never understood the HWT spam blob, if I wanted Lascannons I'd take Vendettas.

Yeah, I got nothing here. A powerblob would have made more sense with that loadout with Yarrick and multiple priests.

Really, there's almost no Vendettas from what I can see. Its still one of the best flyers in the game, and the Guard's best all round AT/AMC unit, with the fact it massacres flyers just the cherry on top. But oh no, it went up by 40 points, so it must be useless, right?

How many other flyers did you see? Maybe you're worrying about something that's not in that meta to begin with?

There's a lot of Conscript+ Priest blobs, which I can understand.

I don't understand why AM Mech is practically non-existent as a core, massing mobile scoring units with triple specials I feel is still quite viable.

Honestly, I've found that my hybrid list is doing the best out of anything I've tried so far. Never thought I'd see the day I said that.

I think its worth thinking about using the steel host instead of pask for delicious P.E (and i dont believe you are stuck with only 1 codex). just make the host tankmander a executioner with his buddy to avoid the range problem. but you have to take 3 more tanks and a hydra :/

Its 5 lascannons that can ignore cover in a game where you have annoying 2+ jink saving daemon princes on the ground, or 3-4++ tricky eldar skimmers. I think it has merit but i prefer not to use yarrick.

im finding vendettas hard to fit into lists because of the price, and besides for an occasional flyer or vehicle, hasn't really blown anything up with the new V damage chart. they have done better going into hover mode to last second capture objectives. its easier to just use those points and get more men on the ground it feels.

I dont know about the rest of the world, but Mechvets just feel weaker considering almost everything can jinx in a dumb way and when they do it doesn't matter as they walk up and punch you to death immediately after. at least thats been my experience.

 Desubot wrote:
I think its worth thinking about using the steel host instead of pask for delicious P.E (and i dont believe you are stuck with only 1 codex). just make the host tankmander a executioner with his buddy to avoid the range problem. but you have to take 3 more tanks and a hydra :/

Its 5 lascannons that can ignore cover in a game where you have annoying 2+ jink saving daemon princes on the ground, or 3-4++ tricky eldar skimmers. I think it has merit but i prefer not to use yarrick.

Wait, what's this about lascannons that can ignore cover?

5 las cannon infantry blob + ignore cover senior orders = fun times for all. OR psyker with perfect timing

Oh. I thought you were talking about the ones on the Leman Russes. Heh. I understand now.

Tank hunter and/or ignore cover is no joke against a lot of the heavy hitters out there. It is also a OS unit with a huge footprint. I managed to get one squad into combat with three different units while contesting two objectives and claiming one.

 Leth wrote:
Tank hunter and/or ignore cover is no joke against a lot of the heavy hitters out there. It is also a OS unit with a huge footprint. I managed to get one squad into combat with three different units while contesting two objectives and claiming one.

How can you get tank hunter AND ignores cover on one squad??? How did you manage to get to three victory points with shooty blob? Did you not shot and go forwards or what?

 Lothar wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Tank hunter and/or ignore cover is no joke against a lot of the heavy hitters out there. It is also a OS unit with a huge footprint. I managed to get one squad into combat with three different units while contesting two objectives and claiming one.

How can you get tank hunter AND ignores cover on one squad??? How did you manage to get to three victory points with shooty blob? Did you not shot and go forwards or what?

Usually its an either/or on those. However sometimes I get a psyker with perfect timing so I get both.

One thing people have to learn about blobs is that it is perfectly fine to advance with them. Also with the large size it is easy to move the lasgun guys and keep the lascannons sitting still. I got a triple charge off locking three units in combat. Then I had to spread out and maintain coherency in the process.

By careful moving of my models I made it so that to maintain coherency the models on the objective I needed to claim could not move. Forming a sort of reverse L shape. Melta bombs killed his wraith knight and the rest of the blob killed his two dire avengers squads. I have no problem going for the charge instead of shooting for that turn, especially if it gives me some extra movement. If there was a reliable way to get endurance on biomancy I would be rolling that everytime.

What's the average point cost for these tournies? I've never been to one or followed them as I've only been into the game a cool years.

I honestly see the mobility part hurting guard the most.

Maybe running a mech Gunline would be best and once you've destroyed enough enemy units your mobile infantry can move out.

What's everyone's consensus on taurox vs chimera. Is the chimera still better to roll with?

 Leth wrote:

Usually its an either/or on those. However sometimes I get a psyker with perfect timing so I get both.

One thing people have to learn about blobs is that it is perfectly fine to advance with them. Also with the large size it is easy to move the lasgun guys and keep the lascannons sitting still. I got a triple charge off locking three units in combat. Then I had to spread out and maintain coherency in the process.

By careful moving of my models I made it so that to maintain coherency the models on the objective I needed to claim could not move. Forming a sort of reverse L shape. Melta bombs killed his wraith knight and the rest of the blob killed his two dire avengers squads. I have no problem going for the charge instead of shooting for that turn, especially if it gives me some extra movement. If there was a reliable way to get endurance on biomancy I would be rolling that everytime.

I understand - with perfect timing it is indeed possible.

Advance with blobs is not an option for me, because my blob sits behind Aegis Line - get through that line with blob is something nigh impossible (it would simply take too long to even matter). Whats more important to me is I dont want to do that, because i would lose that 4+ cover save and then the blob itself.

I played conscript blobs a couple of times. I tried to use them for objective grab, so they were not behind aegis. Well, they were quickly obliterated by enemy anti-infantry fire (they did not even managed to get to the centre of the board...) . I do not want to have my units before aegis...

You charged two units of avengers and a wraith knight? Your opponents fault then. He must have been too close to you. My opponent has made this mistake only once...then he learnt its not a good thing to come close to a blob.

He charged a blob with one wraith knight, I killed it, then got a 6 inch consolidate which I used to slingshot out then used my turn to get within range of all three.

 Leth wrote:
He charged a blob with one wraith knight, I killed it, then got a 6 inch consolidate which I used to slingshot out then used my turn to get within range of all three.

I would like to trade my opponent for yours

That was a very good play with the wraithknight! I myself run a Hybrid list the the blob as my home field objective campers and two units of mech vets as my objective grabbers, usually supported by hellhounds to blow the enemy units off the objectives. It works out pretty well, I find that guard is about finding the balance between mech, blob, and armored with maelstrom missions.
Guard has faster options but I don't see them used much and they aren't troops so no objective secured. Right now I'm working on a list with scions in taurox primes supported by hellhounds. Probably not the best, but I think it will surprise some folks to see a speedy guard list.

For heavy weapons, do you guys generally prefer Autocannons or Lascannons?

I think the guard's poor showing at the BAO is mainly because of two things: lack of mobility combined with Mealstrom missions, and the load of SM players. Drop pod lists can be pretty brutal if you don't manage bubblewrapping the rear of your tanks..

Err... sorry, quick question here: what exactly is this steel host and where are it's rules?

konst80hummel wrote:
Err... sorry, quick question here: what exactly is this steel host and where are it's rules?

It's in the first Sanctus reach campaign book. It's a guard formation that composes of a tank commander, 3 russ squadrons, and a hydra. So at minimum the formation needs 5 russes and a hydra. Then the special ability it grants is that any friendly vehicle in the formation within 12" of the tank commander gets preferred enemy making russes extremely useful and really deadly as most only need 2's to wound so rerolling failed 1's pretty much means you will wound "almost" everything you fire at.

Thanks!

 Lothar wrote:

 Leth wrote:
He charged a blob with one wraith knight, I killed it, then got a 6 inch consolidate which I used to slingshot out then used my turn to get within range of all three.

I would like to trade my opponent for yours

He had to otherwise my blob was going to shoot dead one wraith knight and then possibly get the other one the next turn. He cost me a turn of shooting by locking them, however he didnt expect his wraith knight to survive two of his shooting phases(so three rounds of combat total). Which allowed me to pop out 6 and then it was my turn.

Also space wolves are the AMs new best friend.

Holy crap.

 Leth wrote:

 Lothar wrote:

 Leth wrote:
He charged a blob with one wraith knight, I killed it, then got a 6 inch consolidate which I used to slingshot out then used my turn to get within range of all three.




Also space wolves are the AMs new best friend.

Holy crap.

Details man details what are the combos?

 ultimentra wrote:

 Leth wrote:

 Lothar wrote:

 Leth wrote:
He charged a blob with one wraith knight, I killed it, then got a 6 inch consolidate which I used to slingshot out then used my turn to get within range of all three.




Also space wolves are the AMs new best friend.

Holy crap.

Details man details what are the combos?

First combo that comes to mind is ulrik. He grants himself and any space wolf within 6 preferred enemy.

So now one blob can have ulrik, another has another space wolf character(think iron priest, potentially on thunderwolf for some sweet sweet counter assault) and if he is within 6 the blob will benefit from preferred enemy.

Drop pod for any guard unit to come in first turn with safe deep strike(thinking demolitions vets with 3 meltas)

Or blender CC characters on thunderwolves(if you dont want ulrik)

How are people feeling about bullgryn? Much as I don't want to, I find myself kind of liking them on paper. They're not impressive against marines on the assault, but I see them playing the defensive game more than anything else.

I think the formation from the sanctus reach makes them useable.

That's the one that means you have to take 2x5 of them?

I have mixed feelings about that many of them.

Now that the space wolves are out I'm going to have to look into what good allies combos work with them. Used to run them as allies and now I'm gunna have to see how they do. I hear they are really good.

Hahahhaa, Deep striking drop pod Bullgryns/Ogryns with commie! Imagine the :O faces!

Could also go with vets with 3x meltas, Demo, carapace just because!

Or go cheap and cheerful. SWS with 3 x demo charges in a pod. Bound to ruin somebodies day.