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 Nashole211 wrote:
Do you guys feel the aegis defence line if necessary when running blobs? Im going to run 3 blob squads this weekend, two shooty and one CC. Ill be running yarrick and a priest, I know the cover save is nice, but im going to try to advance all the blobs up the table this time.

Aegis' are great for anything you have in a list that is going to remain static, or mostly static throughout the game; Hydras, Wyverns, Basilisks, Manticores, Deathstrikes, or a CCS fitted with cloaks, sniper rifles,a MoO and Astropath.

Blobs are meant to be swarms that weigh things down in bodies and firepower, having an Aegis will only slow them down and even then the defense gained by having them hide behind one is negligible.

Truthfully, I can't find a way to run blobs with a reliable turnout. Every time I build a list around them, I run out of points before I can start really rounding out my army, I guess I might be overdoing the blob loadout or something. Has anyone run blob Guard successfully?

I have played blobs a lot. I usually play 2 platoons of 2 30 man And 2 20 man squads. Sargents have meltabombs 1 platoon lascannon and plasma gun heavy and 1 platoon auto cannon and
Plasmagun heavy. I usually use them with yarik due to his warlord trait with priests

If your going gunline then sure go with a defense line but otherwise if you have advancing blobs I wouldnt bother with the line. It will only slow them down and you want them moving as fast as possible or they will get shot up too mmuch before they get to their target.

When considering blobs I look at it like this; basically I need to have a unit that is worth fielding, but I have to be careful not to break the bank when I outfit it. The thing is, for a blob to be effective (in my mind), Sergeants need power axes and melta bombs, every squad needs a melta gun, the whole thing is led by a commissar with a power weapon and a priest rounds out things. Generally that means at least 30 guys, maybe 40 and sometimes 50 if I can spare the points and the problem with all that is it becomes insanely expensive for what is essentially a unit I'm going to throw away.

Now, I'm not saying blobs are worthless or anything, but maybe I'm looking at this from a too much of a one-way-or-the-highway type of view. Perhaps I'd be better suited going the more shooting-oriented route that I see so many times in IG foot lists these days.

Aside from the 'give them all the guns' build I've seen has anyone run a blob with melee more in mind like in the days of 5th/6th?

 Frankenberry wrote:
When considering blobs I look at it like this; basically I need to have a unit that is worth fielding, but I have to be careful not to break the bank when I outfit it. The thing is, for a blob to be effective (in my mind), Sergeants need power axes and melta bombs, every squad needs a melta gun, the whole thing is led by a commissar with a power weapon and a priest rounds out things. Generally that means at least 30 guys, maybe 40 and sometimes 50 if I can spare the points and the problem with all that is it becomes insanely expensive for what is essentially a unit I'm going to throw away.

Now, I'm not saying blobs are worthless or anything, but maybe I'm looking at this from a too much of a one-way-or-the-highway type of view. Perhaps I'd be better suited going the more shooting-oriented route that I see so many times in IG foot lists these days.

Aside from the 'give them all the guns' build I've seen has anyone run a blob with melee more in mind like in the days of 5th/6th?

I don't get why are you buying power weapons for everyone. It costs insane amounts of points for unit that can hardly use them. IG stats are awful for CC, I3, WS3 (with current CC to hit table WS doesn't count that much as anything else), S3. Your sergeants will be dead before they have any chance to hit - pretty much everybody will hit before them, they challenge him, and kill him easily before they can even swing that overpriced power weapon of theirs. A melta bomb maybe, so each of your blobs has a chance to kill a vehicle, that may make your opponent to think twice, but pretty much that's it.

Adding both special weapon and heavy weapon to a blob seems like breaking synergy to me. Lascannon/Autocannon is long range and can't move while Plasma/Melta gun is short range with move. You'll likely be stationary more than moving around, but that melta gun seems like wasted point to me.

Zsolt wrote:

 Frankenberry wrote:
When considering blobs I look at it like this; basically I need to have a unit that is worth fielding, but I have to be careful not to break the bank when I outfit it. The thing is, for a blob to be effective (in my mind), Sergeants need power axes and melta bombs, every squad needs a melta gun, the whole thing is led by a commissar with a power weapon and a priest rounds out things. Generally that means at least 30 guys, maybe 40 and sometimes 50 if I can spare the points and the problem with all that is it becomes insanely expensive for what is essentially a unit I'm going to throw away.

Now, I'm not saying blobs are worthless or anything, but maybe I'm looking at this from a too much of a one-way-or-the-highway type of view. Perhaps I'd be better suited going the more shooting-oriented route that I see so many times in IG foot lists these days.

Aside from the 'give them all the guns' build I've seen has anyone run a blob with melee more in mind like in the days of 5th/6th?

I don't get why are you buying power weapons for everyone. It costs insane amounts of points for unit that can hardly use them. IG stats are awful for CC, I3, WS3 (with current CC to hit table WS doesn't count that much as anything else), S3. Your sergeants will be dead before they have any chance to hit - pretty much everybody will hit before them, they challenge him, and kill him easily before they can even swing that overpriced power weapon of theirs. A melta bomb maybe, so each of your blobs has a chance to kill a vehicle, that may make your opponent to think twice, but pretty much that's it.

Adding both special weapon and heavy weapon to a blob seems like breaking synergy to me. Lascannon/Autocannon is long range and can't move while Plasma/Melta gun is short range with move. You'll likely be stationary more than moving around, but that melta gun seems like wasted point to me.

Ok reply to post via list format because I'm tired:

1 - The points cost is insane, I cry when I look at power weapon prices.

2 - Yup, they're awful. But Str5 ap2 eats terminators every day. With their trooper meatshield around them. I might lose a sergeant to a challenge, but the rest of them will be free to kill whatever they want.

3 - Melta bombs are cheap so I figure why not, but I shouldn't be using troopers to kill tanks. That's why I have my Russes.

4 - Heavy weapons are a waste for a blob, in my opinion. It should be moving and assaulting, not using three to five autocannons to shoot at things. Hence the melta guns, on a decent level of shooting that some dead elites.

I would have to agree over time and experience I have decided not to use power weapons as the sergeants get sniped or challenged out. If that they may not strike because to many guardsmen were killed. If I want a guard blob to be assaulting I will just weigh them down with standard attacks and let the big guns take care of armor. I usually do either give the squad krak nades or melta bombs on sergeants. I havent decided whats better of a choice. Walkers and monstrous creatures are common in my meta so nades are somewhat important to have so a whole blob doesnt get tied up by one big model.

 Frankenberry wrote:

1 - The points cost is insane, I cry when I look at power weapon prices.

2 - Yup, they're awful. But Str5 ap2 eats terminators every day. With their trooper meatshield around them. I might lose a sergeant to a challenge, but the rest of them will be free to kill whatever they want.

3 - Melta bombs are cheap so I figure why not, but I shouldn't be using troopers to kill tanks. That's why I have my Russes.

4 - Heavy weapons are a waste for a blob, in my opinion. It should be moving and assaulting, not using three to five autocannons to shoot at things. Hence the melta guns, on a decent level of shooting that some dead elites.

I think the best way to kill termies is either Plasma russ - 5 Heavy plasma blast is bad news for any squad of terminators, or insane amounts of dice of anything. If terminators happen to deep strike close to your russes/blobs, you can rapid fire and FRFSRF them, which eventually grind through any save. Same for gatling, Heavy 20 is good for infantry, either with Paskrending or without it. While having a few S5AP2 CC hits seems too situational and fragile to me. You need to get to cc with your sergeant, you need to survive I4 (and all others), you need to hit him with puny WS3. Too many conditions.

Melta bombs are pretty cheap and threatening to anything that's vehicle. I'm still looking for the anti-tank LR, care to share? Other than LC/MM to anything. Gatling Pask is good anti-air/AV12 though.

A blob of 3 lascannons with prescience and ignore cover order can be pretty deadly. I1m more for shooty blob than assault. But still interested in the proper assault builds too. Have some ideas on that?

Alright so heres a list I play tested against some GK with imperial knight allies. It was a pretty good game granted my opponent shorted himself 315 odd points. probably would have been a lot closer. I ended up wining by leaving him with one purifier squad and his hq left.

Also I did revise this list originally I had a squad of 2 armored sentinels with autocannons and a CCS with 4 plasma guns in a chimera.

2k list
HQ

Punisher-Pask/LC/MM
Executioner-PC's

Vanquisher-TC/LC
LRBT

x3 Vet squads each with chimera/dozer/x2 plasma guns/ Heavy flamer/krak nades

x2 Vet kitted the same as above except with x2 melta instead of plasma

x2 Wyverns squaded together

Vendetta

Now I have 70 points left. I am planning on throwing down a defense line so that turn one all my units can get a cover save. Chimeras have dozers so they can drive right over when the enemy gets close and then they can go to grab objectives. Remaining points could go to pasks squad and give them dozers as well.

I will also post this army in the army lists section.

Going to be rematching my friends Space Wolves after they chopped me to pieces last time. At 1500 points what would you suggest using against such a powerful shooting and cc type army? Especially what can I use against his cavalry.... I know that Conscripts are not the correct answer.

Gamerely wrote:
Going to be rematching my friends Space Wolves after they chopped me to pieces last time. At 1500 points what would you suggest using against such a powerful shooting and cc type army? Especially what can I use against his cavalry.... I know that Conscripts are not the correct answer.

Depends, what do you have to work with?

So has anyone found a pretty good solid list for guard at all? Are the winning lists leaning more towards mech or foot guard lists, or a mix of both. From my personal experience pask in a punisher has been the center piece for my army greatly and has really benefited in a mobile list with mech vets and wyverns.

Has anyone found anything good with blobs, that dont rely to much on allies?

 tankboy145 wrote:
So has anyone found a pretty good solid list for guard at all? Are the winning lists leaning more towards mech or foot guard lists, or a mix of both. From my personal experience pask in a punisher has been the center piece for my army greatly and has really benefited in a mobile list with mech vets and wyverns.

Has anyone found anything good with blobs, that dont rely to much on allies?

What I've found IG/AM mostly have problems with being mobile and get to objectives quickly. It has a pretty nice dakka and armor, some say it can be even good in CC.

That is the same situation I have found the army to be. The army playing foot guard or blob guard is very deadly as most armies can't even do enough damage to cripple these lists. But the problem is foot guard lists struggle at moving around and grabbing objectives in maelstrom missions. Then if you go mech guard you're mobile but you struggle with having ignores cover to take out skimmers and most of the time vets in chimeras aren't putting out a lot of killing firepower. The chimera can fire off plenty of s6-5 wounds but from inside the transport most of the time your only getting 1-2 plasma or melta shots off.

 tankboy145 wrote:
That is the same situation I have found the army to be. The army playing foot guard or blob guard is very deadly as most armies can't even do enough damage to cripple these lists. But the problem is foot guard lists struggle at moving around and grabbing objectives in maelstrom missions. Then if you go mech guard you're mobile but you struggle with having ignores cover to take out skimmers and most of the time vets in chimeras aren't putting out a lot of killing firepower. The chimera can fire off plenty of s6-5 wounds but from inside the transport most of the time your only getting 1-2 plasma or melta shots off.

So if we have a solid army that only lacks objective grabbing, we only need to add that to the army. Need to find some cost effective objective grabbers and we are fine.

Zsolt wrote:

 tankboy145 wrote:
That is the same situation I have found the army to be. The army playing foot guard or blob guard is very deadly as most armies can't even do enough damage to cripple these lists. But the problem is foot guard lists struggle at moving around and grabbing objectives in maelstrom missions. Then if you go mech guard you're mobile but you struggle with having ignores cover to take out skimmers and most of the time vets in chimeras aren't putting out a lot of killing firepower. The chimera can fire off plenty of s6-5 wounds but from inside the transport most of the time your only getting 1-2 plasma or melta shots off.

So if we have a solid army that only lacks objective grabbing, we only need to add that to the army. Need to find some cost effective objective grabbers and we are fine.

Naked rough riders in reserve or scout sentinels are decent options for cheap. A reserved hellhound could be good since he can move+turbo 24" but it's a pricey choice for an objective grabber.

 TheSilo wrote:

Naked rough riders.

..............

Also i like the idea of scout sentinels for backfield hijinks being able to put auto cannons on side or rear armor or dumping wounds at a decently long range which helps mitigate coming in on the wrong edge.

Has anyone run IG with a Knight heavy focus?

FW's Knights are slowly eating away at my willpower, and I'm curious if anyone has any experiences running IG as a compliment to the stompy death robots.

 Desubot wrote:

 TheSilo wrote:

Naked rough riders.

..............

Also i like the idea of scout sentinels for backfield hijinks being able to put auto cannons on side or rear armor or dumping wounds at a decently long range which helps mitigate coming in on the wrong edge.

Hey, 55 points for moving 12" isn't bad. Just start them in reserve.

Wasn't what i was commenting on

 Blacksails wrote:
Has anyone run IG with a Knight heavy focus?

FW's Knights are slowly eating away at my willpower, and I'm curious if anyone has any experiences running IG as a compliment to the stompy death robots.

I've seen Knights in play and they seem to only work in lists that can keep up with it. Otherwise your opponent will flank the night and hit its sides that don't have an ion shield.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Desubot wrote:

 TheSilo wrote:

Naked rough riders.

..............

Also i like the idea of scout sentinels for backfield hijinks being able to put auto cannons on side or rear armor or dumping wounds at a decently long range which helps mitigate coming in on the wrong edge.

Only problem I've noticed with scout sentinels is that bolters will glance them to death.

Well we need to make sure bolters arent shooting them then. Scout Sentinels (and Sentinels in general) can be best described as oppurtunistic bullies, picking on targets smaller and weaker than themselves. Rear armor shots, Lone Autatchs jetbike squads, Kroot (in mellee), remnants of ther units all are fair geme. Armoured Sents can falso function as tarpits for a while. Just don't give them Plasma Cannons.

 tankboy145 wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
Has anyone run IG with a Knight heavy focus?

FW's Knights are slowly eating away at my willpower, and I'm curious if anyone has any experiences running IG as a compliment to the stompy death robots.

I've seen Knights in play and they seem to only work in lists that can keep up with it. Otherwise your opponent will flank the night and hit its sides that don't have an ion shield.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Desubot wrote:

 TheSilo wrote:

Naked rough riders.

..............

Also i like the idea of scout sentinels for backfield hijinks being able to put auto cannons on side or rear armor or dumping wounds at a decently long range which helps mitigate coming in on the wrong edge.

Only problem I've noticed with scout sentinels is that bolters will glance them to death.

Eh, only 1/9 bolter shots will glance, and with that perspective you'd never run chimeras either. The open-topped doesn't hurt against glances. If my opponent is wasting a round of shooting on a 35 point sentinel, I'm fine with that. Sentinels are good at flanking because they can move without losing firepower and have 36"-48" range which lets them hit pretty much anything on most of the table. They're good at contesting backfield objectives, especially since non-gunline armies rarely deploy objective secured troops choices back there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

konst80hummel wrote:
Well we need to make sure bolters arent shooting them then. Scout Sentinels (and Sentinels in general) can be best described as oppurtunistic bullies, picking on targets smaller and weaker than themselves. Rear armor shots, Lone Autatchs jetbike squads, Kroot (in mellee), remnants of ther units all are fair geme. Armoured Sents can falso function as tarpits for a while. Just don't give them Plasma Cannons.

Charge a unit of 30 termagaunts and your opponent needs to waste a turn charging his Hive Tyrant in there, works every time.

On the subject of stormtroopers from a page or two back, I've had a lot of fun with them. I run three melta vet chimeras in my list, one of which is a CCS with an auger. When they get where they're going they've got six meltas aimed at what I want to die. With good reserve rolls I drop down a ten man st squad with two plasma guns and a command squad with two melta.

They can then receive orders from the CCS which when coupled with the vets reliably erases most targets.

 TheSilo wrote:

 tankboy145 wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
Has anyone run IG with a Knight heavy focus?

FW's Knights are slowly eating away at my willpower, and I'm curious if anyone has any experiences running IG as a compliment to the stompy death robots.

I've seen Knights in play and they seem to only work in lists that can keep up with it. Otherwise your opponent will flank the night and hit its sides that don't have an ion shield.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Desubot wrote:

 TheSilo wrote:

Naked rough riders.

..............

Also i like the idea of scout sentinels for backfield hijinks being able to put auto cannons on side or rear armor or dumping wounds at a decently long range which helps mitigate coming in on the wrong edge.

Only problem I've noticed with scout sentinels is that bolters will glance them to death.

Eh, only 1/9 bolter shots will glance, and with that perspective you'd never run chimeras either. The open-topped doesn't hurt against glances. If my opponent is wasting a round of shooting on a 35 point sentinel, I'm fine with that. Sentinels are good at flanking because they can move without losing firepower and have 36"-48" range which lets them hit pretty much anything on most of the table. They're good at contesting backfield objectives, especially since non-gunline armies rarely deploy objective secured troops choices back there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

konst80hummel wrote:
Well we need to make sure bolters arent shooting them then. Scout Sentinels (and Sentinels in general) can be best described as oppurtunistic bullies, picking on targets smaller and weaker than themselves. Rear armor shots, Lone Autatchs jetbike squads, Kroot (in mellee), remnants of ther units all are fair geme. Armoured Sents can falso function as tarpits for a while. Just don't give them Plasma Cannons.

Charge a unit of 30 termagaunts and your opponent needs to waste a turn charging his Hive Tyrant in there, works every time.

The argument about chimeras is no where near the same. Chimeras are one of 2 dedicated transports and the chimera also counts as a troops choice if taken for troops obviously.

Also because at a distance av12 front is also easier to protect. But if you already give up your front 12 then your opponent doesn't have to try and flank your vehicles. Especially if you have multiple vehicles in line.

Not to mention if you only present 12+ armor to your opponents then his weaker weapons between s4-6 can now be fired at the scouts.

I'm not saying they are bad but I would almost rather have 12 front armor for 5more points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Las wrote:
On the subject of stormtroopers from a page or two back, I've had a lot of fun with them. I run three melta vet chimeras in my list, one of which is a CCS with an auger. When they get where they're going they've got six meltas aimed at what I want to die. With good reserve rolls I drop down a ten man st squad with two plasma guns and a command squad with two melta.

They can then receive orders from the CCS which when coupled with the vets reliably erases most targets.

Also the auger idea is interesting but have you thought about allied scions with their book so you have objective secured troops deepstriking? They also seem to have better orders.

Yeah it would be interesting but feth buying that book so much

 Las wrote:
Yeah it would be interesting but feth buying that book so much

do you really have to buy the book? They have all the same stats and equipment. And all you need to do is get someone to tell you the orders from that book.

These are handy pages to check out if you want to learn about the Scions.

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2014/04/codex-militarum-tempestus-first-look.html
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/6th_Edition_Tactics/Militarum_Tempestus#Orders

 Frankenberry wrote:

2 - Yup, they're awful. But Str5 ap2 eats terminators every day. With their trooper meatshield around them. I might lose a sergeant to a challenge, but the rest of them will be free to kill whatever they want.

s4 ap2. It adds 1 str for a s3 guy.

But let's count.



And suddenly, your average power axe sarge is on par with space marine veterans. But better due to more sarges in the squad who will eat challenges.

Not once have i seen space marine bikers being massacred by ig blobs thanks to priests and power axes.

So I plan on building a list. 1850-2k In the list I want to use russes to lead a slow charge and then have foot guard advance up with it. How should I go about building this list? Should I stick with pask in a punisher with an executioner buddy or not because they will most likely be in the front. What other russ variants should I use?

How should my infantry be, MSU's or blobs? I want to avoid power weapons on the guardsmen as none of mine have them and I play more towards wysiwyg.