Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So, my BRB will be here in a day or two. Just one quick question for those of you who have it already.
From what i've read so far, you deny maledictions/witchfires the same, adding bonuses etc etc, but you can now deny blessing, albeit without any bonuses, as in you cannot add being a psyker, special rule additions (i.e. collar of khorne on flesh hounds)
But what happens if you deny on a fixed number? Does having Khârn in your army magically make you stop all psychic powers on a 2+? At first I thought it said "power directed at", but it just says that "Khârn and his unit pass their deny the witch on a roll of 2+".
So, what happens here?

Also, does DTW auto-fail on a 1? So say you attach an undivided sorceror to Khârn's unit (aside from being a major fluff no no), or get Adamantium Will from gift of mutation. Would they then auto-deny witchfire/maledictions?

Thanks for any replies/sorry for opening this whorrible pre-FAQ rules vortex.

*Edit*

More Rules for the mix; How does Witch Eater work? For every successful "Deny the Witch" aka every successful dispel, does the casting psyker immediately take a S6 AP2 hit?

If so, getting Kharn on the board attached to a unit with that boon (if you're lucky), along with Be'lakor and/or a few undivided sorcerors/nurgle heralds/etc could mean that your opponent will literally NEVER be able to cast a power, as you deny on a 2+, get a decent number of dispel dice from your own allied psykers, as well as giving every enemy psyker a s6ap2 hit per successful denial dice.

Until FAQs are up we really don't know. Many codexs have questions that need to be answered.

Best i can tell so far is that yes, he does DTW on a 2+, but only on spells that target him or his unit or that are cast within 12" of him.

Eihnlazer wrote:
Best i can tell so far is that yes, he does DTW on a 2+, but only on spells that target him or his unit or that are cast within 12" of him.

I think that was the intent, but his DTW on a 2+ isn't a result of bonuses, it's a fixed number, which puts it in direct conflict with the new DTW mechanics. Hmmm...

Well on Blessing of the Bloodgod it says:
[...] pass THEIR DTW[...]
unless its targetted at a specific unit like a witchfire etc. its not anyones specific DTW roll, so i would read it as: nothing changed between editions for kharn

Hadn't really considered this before, but it's a great question as I was planning on running Kharn soon I never focused much on his anti-psyker stuff and haven't played a game of 7th yet.

Hopefully he is errata'd to work similarly to how he did in 6th, because now that daemon summoning abuse is a thing this would give a great boost to assault armies since Kharn is an assault character who pretty much hoses psyker shenanigans.

 GruenerT wrote:
Well on Blessing of the Bloodgod it says:
[...] pass THEIR DTW[...]
unless its targetted at a specific unit like a witchfire etc. its not anyones specific DTW roll, so i would read it as: nothing changed between editions for kharn

On the other hand you can choose to deny with whomever now, and any roll yo choose to make with that model or unit is' their roll'.

 Fenris-77 wrote:

 GruenerT wrote:
Well on Blessing of the Bloodgod it says:
[...] pass THEIR DTW[...]
unless its targetted at a specific unit like a witchfire etc. its not anyones specific DTW roll, so i would read it as: nothing changed between editions for kharn

On the other hand you can choose to deny with whomever now, and any roll yo choose to make with that model or unit is' their roll'.

Only if they're one of the targets of the power. You can't just pick someone that wasn't targeted.

As above - you choose to deny, pick them it's their deny.

Like a lot this needs to be faq d

So the FAQ's dropped, and they didnt address him. Looks like any army with Khârn in it passes any DTW on a 2+ all the time! yay!! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!!!

*edit*

Unfortunately, they made it so witch eater was per DTW test, not roll. So no dropping all your dispel dice to cause a bunch of S6 ap2 hits on him

And I was worried about Space Yiffs...

If you're fighting a Blessing/Conjuration-heavy army, leave him parked inside a land raider, behind impassable terrain
If you're fighting a Malediction/Witchfire-heavy army, send him up there with a a blob of zerkers to attract attention

StarHunter25 wrote:
So the FAQ's dropped, and they didnt address him. Looks like any army with Khârn in it passes any DTW on a 2+ all the time! yay!! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!!!

How?

First his rule stats "Kharn and his unit"

Seccond as per the DtW rules, unless he's the target of the power you can't choose him to Deny it.

Third if the power doesn't target any of your units you can apply no modifiers to the roll.

As said in the OP, I haven't gotten my rulebook yet. But from what I've been told, don't you pick a unit to deny? Also, Blessings of the Blood God isn't a modifier, its a fixed number. Wouldn't be an issue if, instead, he got a +4 bonus to DTW.
But no, He (and his unit) just deny on a 2+. Always. The real shenanigans ensue if he is attached to a unit that has/recieved adamantium will. Auto-pass DTW against maledicions/witchfire, and pass on 2+ against blessings/summonings.

No, you don't pick a unit to deny. If the unit is a target, then you look at that unit for bonuses. If no unit is a target (ie: blessings) then it's a 6+.

 grendel083 wrote:
How?

First his rule stats "Kharn and his unit"

Seccond as per the DtW rules, unless he's the target of the power you can't choose him to Deny it.

StarHunter25 wrote:
As the title says, I haven't gotten my rulebook yet.

Well that makes it hard to debate the point, doesn't it?

But from what I've been told, don't you pick a unit to deny?

Yes, out of those targeted by the spell. If they're not targeted, you can't chose them.

Also, Blessings of the Blood God isn't a modifier, its a fixed number.

The Deny rule doesn't say "no modifiers" it says "no bonuses". A 2+ compared to a 6+ is most definitly a bonus!

But no, He (and his unit) just deny on a 2+. Always.

Yeah, if targeted.

The real shenanigans ensue if he is attached to a unit that has/recieved adamantium will. Auto-pass DTW against maledicions/witchfire, and pass on 2+ against blessings/summonings.

Again, doesn't work on a bless/summoning. You really need to get the book rather than post on "what you've heard"

StarHunter25 wrote:
Also, Blessings of the Blood God isn't a modifier, its a fixed number.

Set values are still modifiers, per the BRB.

 Fenris-77 wrote:
Kharn isn't applying a modifier to the die roll - see the mods in the DTW section, it clearly refers to +X type mods, which is excatly the same as standard 40K rules writing. Kharn simply passes on a 2+, which isn't the same as a modifier (although I'm sure that's an argument in itself).

Back to DTW for a second though. Here's the issue:

1. Standard DTW for targeted powers reads as follows - select one of your units that was a target of the enemy’s psychic power

2. For non-targeted powers it reads - To do so, follow the same process, but apply no modifiers to your dice rolls

I've highlighted a consistant mistake.
You can't apply bonuses. It doesn't say modifiers. Kharns bonus is definitley a bonus.

The key phrase is follow the same process. On the one hand the process requires us to choose a unit, but at the same time that unit is supposed to be the target of the power. SO to follow the same process are we still choosing a unit, which would mean we can pick whomever we want, or do we just skip that part of the process, which seems at odds with the notion that we're following the same process. Either way some portion of the requirements aren't being met

Also yes you follow the same process.
That process says to pick a unit that was targeted. It does not allow you to pick a target that wasn't targeted, does it?
The rule absolutley does NOT allow you to "pick whomever we want".