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xxvaderxx wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:
Even with the loss of book powers, it looks like Njal at least got a slight buff. His lightning attack isn't psychic (so no DtW) and lets you target a specific model without having to worry about Precision Shots. Granted, it's AP -, but it's something.

Along with his Staff giving +2 to DtW, I guess. I mean, regular ML2 Rune Priests are only +1 less than he is...

You do know he is 250 points right?. Tigurius is lvl 3 gets to reroll all his casting attempts and is 165 points. Ezequiel is lvl 3 gets an extra power and is 150ish.

Yeah... I didn't say it made him good, just that he got a slight buff. Like most SW special characters, he's still way too expensive.

xxvaderxx wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:

Kyutaru wrote:
Just to recap what happened here:

Daemons got buffed, everyone else got nerfed horribly, and Daemon Factory was something people thought might be a problem.

? How so? Overall it seems GK, Eldar, Necrons, SM, and IG all either stayed the same or got a slight buff, Tau seem to have only slightly gotten nerfed (no more buffmanders), and Chaos Daemons got about 50% nerfed but possibly 50% buffed with maybe an overall nerf or not. CSM and the others overall seem to have gotten a nerf with exceptions like dakka tyrants getting better but at the expense of many other things being worth it.

I want some of what you are smoking.

Eh I just can't see it yet for everything. Necrons got something new and broken thanks to chariots, SM really just kinda got stuck where they were, IG really didn't gain much besides maybe getting a few more psykers helping them edge it against certain armies, GK got psyker spell spam and buffed aegis better than others, and Eldar lost their standard cover save but gained a few other details. Tau lost riptide buffmander and that's the only real major change. Chaos Daemons? They are a mess of what. Their main form of shooting is spells which are more difficult to cast and more likely to peril and with the new rules have to use more charges to fire the same shots so my army that could once fire 4d6 shots for every unit of pink horrors will likely have a unit or two basically firing nothing. Along with that, I'm still cynical on how good daemon factory is. It requires 6 charges for a reliable cast and even then it has risks such as still failing and on a roll of a 2 the unit can forget a random spell. It's a cheesy rock paper scissors combo that can theoretically break by just summoning enough daemons to summon more daemons. Despite that they all have to DS risking mishaps as any daemon player from 4th edition might remember but this time your entire army is already on the table. As per the 50% gain and loss. FMC now don't drop from the skies as easily but have to wait a turn to assault if they swap, lost Eternal Warrior from Iron Arm, and get only one smash attack. At the same time Iron Arm got an overall buff, Invisibility if gained is downright nasty if you can pass it, and it won't really hurt FMC with whips or the ap3 flamer of csm goodness. It's got a lot of catches nowdays although if any army benefits from this all Chaos Daemons are most likely with the buff to Soul Grinders and even the Chariot of Tzeentch flamer mode.

Also, even for all the things I said that remained the same or got better, I still stated everybody besides about 7 armies likely just got screwed hard or have a few good builds that are monobuild.

Oh I see... you haven't read the latest FAQs.

 StarTrotter wrote:


Eh I just can't see it yet for everything. Necrons got something new and broken thanks to chariots, SM really just kinda got stuck where they were, IG really didn't gain much besides maybe getting a few more psykers helping them edge it against certain armies, GK got psyker spell spam and buffed aegis better than others, and Eldar lost their standard cover save but gained a few other details. Tau lost riptide buffmander and that's the only real major change. Chaos Daemons? They are a mess of what. Their main form of shooting is spells which are more difficult to cast and more likely to peril and with the new rules have to use more charges to fire the same shots so my army that could once fire 4d6 shots for every unit of pink horrors will likely have a unit or two basically firing nothing. Along with that, I'm still cynical on how good daemon factory is. It requires 6 charges for a reliable cast and even then it has risks such as still failing and on a roll of a 2 the unit can forget a random spell. It's a cheesy rock paper scissors combo that can theoretically break by just summoning enough daemons to summon more daemons. Despite that they all have to DS risking mishaps as any daemon player from 4th edition might remember but this time your entire army is already on the table. As per the 50% gain and loss. FMC now don't drop from the skies as easily but have to wait a turn to assault if they swap, lost Eternal Warrior from Iron Arm, and get only one smash attack. At the same time Iron Arm got an overall buff, Invisibility if gained is downright nasty if you can pass it, and it won't really hurt FMC with whips or the ap3 flamer of csm goodness. It's got a lot of catches nowdays although if any army benefits from this all Chaos Daemons are most likely with the buff to Soul Grinders and even the Chariot of Tzeentch flamer mode.

Also, even for all the things I said that remained the same or got better, I still stated everybody besides about 7 armies likely just got screwed hard or have a few good builds that are monobuild.

I think the biggest thing he was trying to get across was that several old books took a major hit and lost major abilities, several armies got nothing (Tau for example now has no psychic defense and no battlebrothers outside of a single expensive enclave item), and some armies got some mix of good and bad changes. However Daemons now have an insane build that will deny the psychic phase to anyone else while being able to crank out troops and greater demons.

Has anyone played a game with Daemons using th new rules to see how effective it actually is? Im still reading through the new book but Im wonering if there are other restrictions to casting in general (i.e., casting in combat, how casting affects what else you can do that round, etc.) im just curious to see in actual play how things work out rather than just hear everyone speak to the possibilities.

Dramagod2 wrote:
Has anyone played a game with Daemons using th new rules to see how effective it actually is? Im still reading through the new book but Im wonering if there are other restrictions to casting in general (i.e., casting in combat, how casting affects what else you can do that round, etc.) im just curious to see in actual play how things work out rather than just hear everyone speak to the possibilities.

There are many more springing up all over the net confirming the level of stupid that is Tzeentch Clown Car.

Don't forget that Tau also lost Farsight Bomb, since you can no longer attach a psyker with Gate of Infinity to Farsight and his giant bodyguard.

well looks like the six rune priest models i have are now useless Having played SM for the first time last night i think they got a little buff, as anyone else with access to the brb psychic trees cause i absolutely stomped tyranid and necrons by turn two and the necron player in my area has been forever a pain in my ass cause necrons are cheesy as hell. The Rune priest thing im pretty bummed out about cause that was my first army and i played it all the way up until the new SM codex. Thankfully there are no demon players in my area so i dont have to worry about that but then again i cant really practice against em. I think overall everyone got a psychic buff besides necron, tau, and tyranid (besides the free dominion) and that seems to fix some balance issues between them and other armies (except tyranid who are still kinda screwed). being able to hide a squad from those stupid harbinger template weapons with a deathmark squad makes me much less frustrated playing them haha. Thank you all for the quick replies btw

And something that came up last night, tyranids first warlord trait, the awesomely horrible carnivorous forest, guess whats no longer in the brb...

 Savageconvoy wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:


Eh I just can't see it yet for everything. Necrons got something new and broken thanks to chariots, SM really just kinda got stuck where they were, IG really didn't gain much besides maybe getting a few more psykers helping them edge it against certain armies, GK got psyker spell spam and buffed aegis better than others, and Eldar lost their standard cover save but gained a few other details. Tau lost riptide buffmander and that's the only real major change. Chaos Daemons? They are a mess of what. Their main form of shooting is spells which are more difficult to cast and more likely to peril and with the new rules have to use more charges to fire the same shots so my army that could once fire 4d6 shots for every unit of pink horrors will likely have a unit or two basically firing nothing. Along with that, I'm still cynical on how good daemon factory is. It requires 6 charges for a reliable cast and even then it has risks such as still failing and on a roll of a 2 the unit can forget a random spell. It's a cheesy rock paper scissors combo that can theoretically break by just summoning enough daemons to summon more daemons. Despite that they all have to DS risking mishaps as any daemon player from 4th edition might remember but this time your entire army is already on the table. As per the 50% gain and loss. FMC now don't drop from the skies as easily but have to wait a turn to assault if they swap, lost Eternal Warrior from Iron Arm, and get only one smash attack. At the same time Iron Arm got an overall buff, Invisibility if gained is downright nasty if you can pass it, and it won't really hurt FMC with whips or the ap3 flamer of csm goodness. It's got a lot of catches nowdays although if any army benefits from this all Chaos Daemons are most likely with the buff to Soul Grinders and even the Chariot of Tzeentch flamer mode.

Also, even for all the things I said that remained the same or got better, I still stated everybody besides about 7 armies likely just got screwed hard or have a few good builds that are monobuild.

I think the biggest thing he was trying to get across was that several old books took a major hit and lost major abilities, several armies got nothing (Tau for example now has no psychic defense and no battlebrothers outside of a single expensive enclave item), and some armies got some mix of good and bad changes. However Daemons now have an insane build that will deny the psychic phase to anyone else while being able to crank out troops and greater demons.

Oh I never meant to imply it wasn't so. So many armies got boned and even several new armies got boned. To be fair Tau already never really had psyker defense bar allying in armies. But eyah, if we are talking about those alone it's absolutely preposterous. Also keep in mind I'm looking at this all from my chaotic side CSM got screwed over, IG didn't really go much anywhere from what I gather, and Chaos Daemons are an utter broken mess. My main problem comes more from the rules hurting my style of play which is opting for mono-Tzeentch and using flickering fire. I really don't want to be screwed for how a Tzeentch army is supposed to be played (I wouldn't even mind if the summoning was limited. In fact I thinkf I'd prefer it. Or at the very least some rule where summoned daemons can't summon more daemons). Then again I only have one DP, one LoC, only 3 screamers, and only 2 footslogging heralds so I'm not quite the person that's going to really hop on this type of army

Oh and that video. Good gosh please just burn the stupid tactical objectives.