Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Lord Scythican wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Daemon Factory can be exponential.

This is really what makes it scary for real. The fact that pink horrors can spawn more pink horrors that can spawn more pink horrors. But even without that, it's just silly.

Well I for one would love to see someone pull this off. Losing the game would be nothing to watching them lay down all those pink horrors knowing how much they lost from their wallet to GW.

Of course I would be a hardcore donkey-cave about it and require them to actually use pink horrors.

Haha its one of those times where it is justified to be an donkey-cave!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Paradigm wrote:
This is kind of my insane, even with a new codex on the way. The least they could do was leave the BA some hope until then. I can't imagine any opponent refusing to let you use the codex cost and Fast or the SM cost without Fast, but still.

7th and these FAQs have convinced me that GW just don't give a gak.

Not that I play many pick up games but I can see it leading to awkward scenarios against particular people.
In the majority of my games I will do as you suggest... or just play my necrons or CSM.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Haha love that the mods changed it to donkey-cave... lol never heard that term.
Sorry mods.

Now you know what it's like to be a Tyranid player.

Davor wrote:
Now you know what it's like to be a Tyranid player.

What did Tyranids lose while keeping the pricetag for it?

 Purifier wrote:

Davor wrote:
Now you know what it's like to be a Tyranid player.

What did Tyranids lose while keeping the pricetag for it?

Shadow in the Warp for one. Literally does nothing in 7th. It didn't get FAQ'd.

 Purifier wrote:

Davor wrote:
Now you know what it's like to be a Tyranid player.

What did Tyranids lose while keeping the pricetag for it?

Trygons and Meleerants that weren't a waste of points (though Meleerants were verging on "waste of points" since Armored Shell and Biomancy was nixed) and precious FoC slots. Shadow in the Warp as mentioned before, only really serving to screw with a Perils roll. Vector striking effectiveness. Rupture Cannons and Venom cannons having any claim to not sucking. Any hopes of getting to actually tear things up in assault as virtually all the Nerfs from the edition transition that negatively affected the Tyranids were the ones that made Assault go from bad to worse.

At this point, Assault has become a privilege of a handful of units durable/expendable to survive several rounds of shooting, and fast enough to race across the board into it. Unfortunately Tyranid units tend to either be too squishy and/or too slow to get into assault.

So continues the transformation of the Tyranids from mostly assault focused with some shooty support to a mostly short ranged shooting army.

Much like how the Orks have had to go pretty much all dakka all the time because out of their codex; only MAN missiles and Nob Bikers are going to be getting into assault in one piece, or how Khornate armies get worse with every edition because assault gets weaker every edition and they just don't have any game that isn't assault.

Blood angels? Again, Assault focused army being screwed over by GW seemingly deciding it wants Assault to become as irrelevant a phase as possible unless you're wicked fast and have great resiliency per point.

The nerf to all their vehicles and the loss of all their unique psyker powers is essentially another kick in the balls to an army that's suffered through all of 6e hovering at the bottom tiers.

Well, BA will hopefully get a new codex soon.

These changes concern the substance of BA armies.

Important!

The FAQ never addresses the special note on Page 34 stating that all Rhino Variants get the Lucifer Engine and are considered 'FAST' , If this special note has not been FAQ'd or ERRATA'd out of the BA Codex, then all Rhino variants still have Lucifer engine.



Baal is unique only to BA. I feel the editor of the FAQ erroneously copied/pasted the vehicle listing from other FAQs and overwrote the BA vehicle list. There was no need to copy/paste over the Baal entry since it was unique to BA.

As far as I am concerned, they are still FAST and the BA vehicle listing is a copy/paste error. GK get Whirlwind and Vinidicator. That just leads me to believe that GW is lazy or it was an error.

Further evidence that GW doesn't understand their own game at all.
Why nerf an already near usless like the Penitent Engine?
Why make Mutilator suck for cc or Ahriman not have divination though he invented it?
etc etc etc.

I'm sure when their shiny new fancy pants book comes out, they will be back in the lime light.

Either they'll get vehicle upgrades, or some exclusive rights to some special rules for their vehicles. Give orks their one month to be good, and then you'll have your new book to thrash them back to third edition.

It just seems really ridiculous because now a BA has no real hope of winning at all. Shooting with them is a joke at best, assaulting would be great, if you could get there, or have something that would carry you through multiple assault phases, but they only get the power on the charge and that sucks.

Not being able to take codex powers anymore screws the Furioso Librarian horribly. Wings of Sanguinius was what gave this guy the ability to get into CC more reliably without having to use a Stormraven. I'm not terribly familiar witht he new codex powers, but this is a devastating loss. Mephistion is still "good" and Biomancy was always a skill to roll in, but now he is just nerfed beyond all belief because I don't think that he will be able to add enough (ML=3) to a D6 to get any reliable power out of him. I guess you could have Corbulo join him now,l but that is only going to save him from so much before he dies.

Tanks losing fast hurts immeasurably. It was one of the few things that I feel really kept BA kinda, sorta, just a little bit (read: snowball's chance in hell) good. When 7th came out, and you could score inside of vehicles (and if the vehicle is a DT, then it too was a troop) Razorspam looked very, very hopeful choice. It would have been a tight build (660 I believe with 6 squads of five assault marines and 6 Razorbacks) but you could flesh the rest our with Stormravens, Furiosos and Termies. While this is still sort of doable, it suffers in the loss of SoS. The ability to move fast and still provide backup fire made up for the subpar shooting that BA characteristically had. Now we can't do that, and so we lost a lot of fire support. Yes C:SM can make it work, but the quality of their units (as well as pricing) whether it be through buff or what not makes them able to handle this better.

I realize that I can now ally BA with another army to fix the holes, but why in GAKS name would I do that when I could just run a C:SM army and use the superior units there and drop the BA all together? Priests cannot even buff other C:SM units so taking them along is worthless in allegiances now.

I love my BA, and always will, but the changes in the FAQ pretty much made them unplayable for the time being...

(Sorry for the rant)

A lot of people are saying wait for the new dex. But what about those unlike me who have no other armies? Should they just stop playing for a few months or should they play horribly handicapped games in the mean while? Because those are the only 2 options GW has left them.
And don't apologise Maximus - its justified!

 Purifier wrote:

Davor wrote:
Now you know what it's like to be a Tyranid player.

What did Tyranids lose while keeping the pricetag for it?

Oh what a short memory we have. How about fleet? SM get them for free while Tyranids and Eldar had to pay for it waayyyyyy back in 4th (or was it 5th edition?) Just for one.

The Tervigon, upped in points big time while a lot was taken away as well.

How about SM get things added for no point increase at all, while Tyranids get a price decrease but also loose stats and rules.

 Paradigm wrote:
This is kind of my insane, even with a new codex on the way. The least they could do was leave the BA some hope until then. I can't imagine any opponent refusing to let you use the codex cost and Fast or the SM cost without Fast, but still.

7th and these FAQs have convinced me that GW just don't give a gak.

Well for example Kharn was given a power axe 1 month before the Chaos Dex dropped and gave him a special axe striking at initiative.

Davor wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

Davor wrote:
Now you know what it's like to be a Tyranid player.

What did Tyranids lose while keeping the pricetag for it?

Oh what a short memory we have. How about fleet? SM get them for free while Tyranids and Eldar had to pay for it waayyyyyy back in 4th (or was it 5th edition?) Just for one.

The Tervigon, upped in points big time while a lot was taken away as well.

How about SM get things added for no point increase at all, while Tyranids get a price decrease but also loose stats and rules.

The tervigon was undercosted. BA vehicles were already overcosted.

Poly Ranger wrote:
A lot of people are saying wait for the new dex. But what about those unlike me who have no other armies? Should they just stop playing for a few months or should they play horribly handicapped games in the mean while? Because those are the only 2 options GW has left them.
And don't apologise Maximus - its justified!

No, you're missing an option. It's the option GW desperately wants you to take.

Buy another army.

If it were me, I'd sit out.

For ages, it was safe to say Games Workshop couldn't have given a FAQ about the Blood Angels.

Enevitably the beady eyes of GW gazed upon the codex and deemed that players must have complete armies and not be buying enough. The the swollen mass of GW squatted, heaved and expelled a token gesture towards its forgotten children.


Now we find the Blood Angels Baals-deep down the non-competitive end of the spectrum. Chaos.... I mean Games Workshop is a fickle over-lord

 Wulfmar wrote:
Baals-deep

Amazing.

The problem is GW needs to ask the opinions of die hard gamers what they think about balancing armies via questionnaires per cod.ex etc. instead 2 people sit and quick fast spew up some ridiculous updates causing parts of the game to further break.

Now I'm not a gamer of my BA but I love collecting and painting them but I still follow their games and their powers.

As the op displayed in the first post those are some sickening differences when it comes to points.

I for one don't believe the GW team are thick as door nails to make these kinds of mistakes but it's a way of getting people to get fed up of rallying weak armies which always lose and picking up new armies with better strengths and competitive challenge. It's to boost sales of other minis by forcing near finished collectors to begin buying anew

My main army is BA, and while I agree with the FAQ nonsense from GW; it is what it is. I have taken the route of shelving my Blood Angels until they receive an update of some sort which will actually make them on par with some of the other dexes.

Tau was the same way in 5th... hardly anyone played Tau; my buddy's main army was Tau and he shelved it until they became relevant again. Like everything in 40k, it is cyclical and will always come back around at some point.

How the hell can anyone argue that Mephi is still good? He lost his codex powers for flips sakes! Without 12 inches of movement, he is not going to be able to get into fights. Without S10 from the sword, he isn't going to be able to crump the toughest monstrous creatures and vehicles in CC.

^ With Iron Arm he's still basically a Monstrous Creature.
Not guaranteed, but likely with three powers.

But without movement he will be picked off. 6 inches/turn is a joke.

Someone else already pointed this out, but:

There's the general rule stating that all rhino-chassis-based vehicles gain the Fast USR in the codex, if I recall correctly. I don't see this being invalidated by the FAQ, though...despite of Fast not being included in the vehicles chart in the FAQ itself.

Definitely looks like an oversight to me.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
But why would they copy paste and remember the Baal predator and nothing else?

Only Blood Angels have Baal Predators, so they didn't have anything to incorrectly copypasta

 Sigvatr wrote:
Someone else already pointed this out, but:

There's the general rule stating that all rhino-chassis-based vehicles gain the Fast USR in the codex, if I recall correctly. I don't see this being invalidated by the FAQ, though...despite of Fast not being included in the vehicles chart in the FAQ itself.

Definitely looks like an oversight to me.

I will use this to claim my vehicles are fast but any TFG will quite legally claim that faqs trump the codex and since fast is not in the faq entry...

FAQ only trumps a codex when two rules directly conflict. If we really look at it right now, we got two rules sitting side-by-side. You could argue that no vehicle comes with the rule by default, but gains it because of the Rhino-chassis rule in your codex. It's a bit of a stretch though.

...but really, anyone further beating on BA players should be ashamed of himself :(

Lol thats true.

Poly Ranger wrote:

Davor wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

Davor wrote:
Now you know what it's like to be a Tyranid player.

What did Tyranids lose while keeping the pricetag for it?

Oh what a short memory we have. How about fleet? SM get them for free while Tyranids and Eldar had to pay for it waayyyyyy back in 4th (or was it 5th edition?) Just for one.

The Tervigon, upped in points big time while a lot was taken away as well.

How about SM get things added for no point increase at all, while Tyranids get a price decrease but also loose stats and rules.

The tervigon was undercosted. BA vehicles were already overcosted.

The Tervigon is a liability in the new Codex, half of the BA vehicles are overcosted, but that's because of the old points costs. Even then, stuff like Rhinos, Razorbacks and Vindicators are totally reasonable.

 Kain wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

Davor wrote:
Now you know what it's like to be a Tyranid player.

What did Tyranids lose while keeping the pricetag for it?

Trygons and Meleerants that weren't a waste of points (though Meleerants were verging on "waste of points" since Armored Shell and Biomancy was nixed) and precious FoC slots. Shadow in the Warp as mentioned before, only really serving to screw with a Perils roll. Vector striking effectiveness. Rupture Cannons and Venom cannons having any claim to not sucking. Any hopes of getting to actually tear things up in assault as virtually all the Nerfs from the edition transition that negatively affected the Tyranids were the ones that made Assault go from bad to worse.

At this point, Assault has become a privilege of a handful of units durable/expendable to survive several rounds of shooting, and fast enough to race across the board into it. Unfortunately Tyranid units tend to either be too squishy and/or too slow to get into assault.

So continues the transformation of the Tyranids from mostly assault focused with some shooty support to a mostly short ranged shooting army.

Much like how the Orks have had to go pretty much all dakka all the time because out of their codex; only MAN missiles and Nob Bikers are going to be getting into assault in one piece, or how Khornate armies get worse with every edition because assault gets weaker every edition and they just don't have any game that isn't assault.

Blood angels? Again, Assault focused army being screwed over by GW seemingly deciding it wants Assault to become as irrelevant a phase as possible unless you're wicked fast and have great resiliency per point.

The nerf to all their vehicles and the loss of all their unique psyker powers is essentially another kick in the balls to an army that's suffered through all of 6e hovering at the bottom tiers.

I have to disagree on the Orks having problems in assault, having watched an Ork player use quite a bit of assault to take down an Eldar army that featured three Wraith Knights. All three knights were eliminated by Ork assault.

Relapse wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

Davor wrote:
Now you know what it's like to be a Tyranid player.

What did Tyranids lose while keeping the pricetag for it?

Trygons and Meleerants that weren't a waste of points (though Meleerants were verging on "waste of points" since Armored Shell and Biomancy was nixed) and precious FoC slots. Shadow in the Warp as mentioned before, only really serving to screw with a Perils roll. Vector striking effectiveness. Rupture Cannons and Venom cannons having any claim to not sucking. Any hopes of getting to actually tear things up in assault as virtually all the Nerfs from the edition transition that negatively affected the Tyranids were the ones that made Assault go from bad to worse.

At this point, Assault has become a privilege of a handful of units durable/expendable to survive several rounds of shooting, and fast enough to race across the board into it. Unfortunately Tyranid units tend to either be too squishy and/or too slow to get into assault.

So continues the transformation of the Tyranids from mostly assault focused with some shooty support to a mostly short ranged shooting army.

Much like how the Orks have had to go pretty much all dakka all the time because out of their codex; only MAN missiles and Nob Bikers are going to be getting into assault in one piece, or how Khornate armies get worse with every edition because assault gets weaker every edition and they just don't have any game that isn't assault.

Blood angels? Again, Assault focused army being screwed over by GW seemingly deciding it wants Assault to become as irrelevant a phase as possible unless you're wicked fast and have great resiliency per point.

The nerf to all their vehicles and the loss of all their unique psyker powers is essentially another kick in the balls to an army that's suffered through all of 6e hovering at the bottom tiers.

I have to disagree on the Orks having problems in assault, having watched an Ork player use quite a bit of assault to take down an Eldar army that featured three Wraith Knights. All three knights were eliminated by Ork assault.

This is quite possibly the most picture perfect example of using an anecdote poorly to prove your point I have ever seen.

I mean...

Wow..

You have found the holy grail, you have reached the nirvana of anecdotal evidence. All hail to you.

You have achieved enlightenment you silly goose.

Also, unless those were Nobz and Bosses, I'm not sure how that was possible considering that basic boys can't even hurt wraithknights at all.