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Vine - the idea of the Broadside Shas'vre as Warlord is that the Tau Warlord table has some very nice abilities for a Broadside commander to have and lets you reroll any of the ones it can't use.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
HYMP are literally the only thing we have that is highly immobile. Ive been known for throwing an Ethereal in this unit for leadership bonus, 6+FNP, and pseudo-mobility with Zephyr's Grace. Usually couple this with a firwarrior bubble to maximize his effect. Ive noticed that unless im against an assaulty army, my missilesides are usually JUST out of range of what i want to hit and a ~6" movement usually leaves them a sitting duck, so theyre firing snaps anyway might as well use Zephr's Grace!

Also the warlord comment. Reread the rules and realized they changed it more than i thought. It doesnt force you take highest leadership anymore and says nothing about IC trumping Characters for the job either. So i guess it is legal to have a broadside shas'vre as your warlord even in unbound lists.
Question is though....wtf would you do that for? lol, broadsides arent really that hard to kill and at least crisis suits can move quickly. 2+ armor vs 3+ isnt that big of a deal with most weapons penning said armors paste them anyway (barring plasma and a few choice special weapons you rarely see, but in general cause instant death if it pens 2+ armor)

You use one as a Warlord for sniping HRR. Give one an ATS and hope to get the 1st warlord trait (any except the 4th are good for this, anyway). The rest of its squad takes target locks and HYMP

Personally, I believe that using Broadsides as AA will be great. Although they are expensive to put a VT on a unit of 3 Missilesides, if you add in the Buffmander you have some serious firepower. Its a shame that they can't take EWO too...

IMO Broadsides are good AA without a VT, they sill hit 31% of the time vs 75%, but with EWO they have a chance to take out units before they shoot, that can't be understated. 30% increase in cost for 240% increase in AA is great, but it doesn't affect the Drones and without Target Locks you have a lot of wasted firepower hitting on 6s, and if you don't run Drines for Abkatice Wounds you are in trouble. Whereas a single Markerlight, or better two from a Skyray's Skyfire Markerlights greatly exceeds the AA broadsides damage potential. Two Markerlights increases the Broadsides Damage Potential vs a Flyer higher than dedicated VTs. Save the VTs for an HBC Riptide, Broadisdes can nuke things with EWO or nuke multiple light Transports with Target Locks.

Broadsides are great against almost everything with EWO, and they still have a better chance than most vs flyers. With a bit of support, they excel at taking out Flyers.

I say, keep your Broadsides EWO and make sure you have a SkyRay or two, Skyfire Markerlights are the real deal for AA. Not to mention the SkyRay blows it's load early and nukes one target anyway.

I personally really like the RailSides.

Range is an issue for the Missilesides and they find it harder to kill vehicles than the Railside does! canny deployment will net you a lot of mileage from even just singular Railsides.

Ax-1-0 all the way

Drones can never score or deny objectives in this codex

Unless they are in a squad inc. Non drone models.

No he's right. easiest place to find it is in the refrence under drones

Razerous wrote:
Unless they are in a squad inc. Non drone models.

This is correct.

So then if a ic joins a squad of drones they can now contest objectives?

TheBoy wrote:
So then if I a ic joins a squad of drones they can now contest objectives?

The IC is a Scoring unit and can control and contest normal objectives so long as an Ibjective Secured unit is not on the objective.

The stipulation is that a unit consisting entirely of drone is nonscoring noncontesting. Adding an IC means that it no longer falls under that ruling so long as the IC is there.

The paragraph talking about drones scoring or not is probably the most clearly written and straight to the point rule in the codex..oddly enough lol.

Its only a few lines, stating any unit composed entirely of drones cannot score or deny. Even in the old rules if an IC joined them this rule was thrown out the window, however they were either FOC-Less because they came off a ship (old rules afaik the drones didnt count as anything foc-related) or were Fast Attack so unlesss it was Scouring all they could do was deny anyway. Now they can score as well as deny or secure behind enemy lines VP. As long as a non-drone model is in the unit, of course.

You all forget, that you can take a Firebase Cadre without touching your Force Organization Chart and give yourself Railsides with FREE Tank Hunter and a Riptide with FREE tank Hunter. Only stipulation is that it must be 3 man broadside teams. I have found Velocity trackers to be expensive, but worth it to turn Broadsides into nasty Anti Air. AP1 is nothing to shrug at, especially now. Hymp Broadsides put you too close to the enemy and can prevent you from using cover. You lose one of the main advantages of our army by using them, that being range. 60" Range in a good vantage point does fun things, and the missile drones you can add give you some serious firepower against anything that closes the distance.

Where are you seeing this?

The only tankhunter in our codex is either Longstrike which is exclusive 45pt once per army upgrade to Hammerheads and Buffmanders which cannot attach to riptides anymore.

You are right AP1 is nothing to scoff at....except its S8 with no chance at double-pen. The only things its going to penetrate is AV11/12, and very rarely AV13. I can glance them to death with MP just as easily and still kill other things. 36" is plenty if you dont hide the broadsides in the back corner (it doesnt help them that much to put them back there). And the HYMP doesnt need VelTrackers to kill fliers due to the sheer volume of fire and twinlinked.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Where are you seeing this?

The only tankhunter in our codex is either Longstrike which is exclusive 45pt once per army upgrade to Hammerheads and Buffmanders which cannot attach to riptides anymore.

You are right AP1 is nothing to scoff at....except its S8 with no chance at double-pen. The only things its going to penetrate is AV11/12, and very rarely AV13. I can glance them to death with MP just as easily and still kill other things. 36" is plenty if you dont hide the broadsides in the back corner (it doesnt help them that much to put them back there). And the HYMP doesnt need VelTrackers to kill fliers due to the sheer volume of fire and twinlinked.

Firebase support cadre formation dataslate

AKA-the most cheesy and powermongering formation in the game that makes some APOC formations look bad.

Honestly, tell me how a riptide and 9 broadside is 40k formation, but 5 phiranas or 3 hammerheads are an apoc only formation?

9 broadsides? i wouldnt call that a free choice, thats 450USD in broadsides alone lol. Pretty much the only reason i never, ever field 2 units of broads

 BoomWolf wrote:
AKA-the most cheesy and powermongering formation in the game that makes some APOC formations look bad.

Honestly, tell me how a riptide and 9 broadside is 40k formation, but 5 phiranas or 3 hammerheads are an apoc only formation?

Its actually a 6 Broadside and 1 Riptide formation. Definitely nasty, Free Tankhunter is outstanding, Preferred Enemy Space Marine is situationally great, but it forces you to soak so many points. Minimum 570pts, but realistically after upgrades its 605+ and then without drones those broadsides are so easy to double out, so even a couple of drones each makes it ~700pts and can reach 800pts decked out with upgrades.

 BoomWolf wrote:
AKA-the most cheesy and powermongering formation in the game that makes some APOC formations look bad.

Honestly, tell me how a riptide and 9 broadside is 40k formation, but 5 phiranas or 3 hammerheads are an apoc only formation?

Dunno, Skyblight can win games all by itself

Personally I am looking more at Fenclaves as being stronger than initial Tau. Not going to go into specifics at this time, but I'll post my experiences of it after the Bay Area Open. Consider it though.

Fenclaves?

 Commander_Farsight wrote:
Personally I am looking more at Fenclaves as being stronger than initial Tau. Not going to go into specifics at this time, but I'll post my experiences of it after the Bay Area Open. Consider it though.

I feel Mono TE or Mono FE are at the same power level, but thanks to CADs being based on Faction, not source material you can mix and match to a certain degree. At least that is how Reecius ruled it for the BAO. FE Suits and Riptides with a TE BuffCommander is where it is at.

 BoomWolf wrote:
AKA-the most cheesy and powermongering formation in the game that makes some APOC formations look bad.

Honestly, tell me how a riptide and 9 broadside is 40k formation, but 5 phiranas or 3 hammerheads are an apoc only formation?

It is only 6 Broadsides, but point stands.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Zagman wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
AKA-the most cheesy and powermongering formation in the game that makes some APOC formations look bad.

Honestly, tell me how a riptide and 9 broadside is 40k formation, but 5 phiranas or 3 hammerheads are an apoc only formation?

Its actually a 6 Broadside and 1 Riptide formation. Definitely nasty, Free Tankhunter is outstanding, Preferred Enemy Space Marine is situationally great, but it forces you to soak so many points. Minimum 570pts, but realistically after upgrades its 605+ and then without drones those broadsides are so easy to double out, so even a couple of drones each makes it ~700pts and can reach 800pts decked out with upgrades.

Most of the guys I see run it would be running the models any one. So for them the formation is just free Tank Hunter for the units.

 Zagman wrote:
FE Suits and Riptides with a TE BuffCommander is where it is at.

I did this Saturday. Threw a FE commander with dual plasma, target lock, and drone controller into a 3 man suit squad with 2 dual plasma with target lock, 1 dual missile with target lock, and 4 marker drones along with a buffmander. I brought the ECPA Riptide with HBC, with four drones getting BS5 and re-rolls I always had a BS5, re-rolling Nova and re-rolling 1's to hit, with ignoring cover Riptide. The suits were able to split fire like crazy, picking at units of Striking Scorpions and Warpspiders while the missile suit was able to destroy a couple wave serpents.

Dunno why I'm posting this, but I have an urge to share it with some other people. On my last tourney, while fielding a Serpent spam, I faced a very interesting Tau list.
It included this unit: (more or less)
3x Crisis (missle pods, 4 marker drones, all target lock)
Commander (missle pods, skyfire, drone controller, target lock, 2+ armour save, fnp)
Commander (tank/monster hunter, TL, ignore cover, Hit'n'Run, some other nasty stuff)

This thing started game in a Bastion. He also had Hammerhead with Longstrike, Skyray, some cheap troops and an allied Stormraven with Deathcult Assasins and Coteaz in reserves. 1500 points.

I underestimated it's fire power and when it got into it's range it could literally devastate 2 units a turn. That included Wave Serpents. It also added some reliable Markerlights.
On my first turn I only had AV 13/14 to shoot at, so all my WS's could do was to glance his skimmers with Serpent Shields.

There is also a possibility of adding an allied Farsight Enclave Commander with some additional nasty equipment.

 Savageconvoy wrote:

 Zagman wrote:
FE Suits and Riptides with a TE BuffCommander is where it is at.

I did this Saturday. Threw a FE commander with dual plasma, target lock, and drone controller into a 3 man suit squad with 2 dual plasma with target lock, 1 dual missile with target lock, and 4 marker drones along with a buffmander. I brought the ECPA Riptide with HBC, with four drones getting BS5 and re-rolls I always had a BS5, re-rolling Nova and re-rolling 1's to hit, with ignoring cover Riptide. The suits were able to split fire like crazy, picking at units of Striking Scorpions and Warpspiders while the missile suit was able to destroy a couple wave serpents.

Nice, I'm toying with the idea of this running around for 7th as I can't join a BuffCommander to a Riptide anymore

Farsight Enclaves Commander Dual Missile Pods Velocity Tracker and Target Lock

Tau Empire Commander Drone Controller, Shield Generator, Stim Injector, Onager, Iridium, MSS, C&CN, PEN, NSJ, 2xMarker Drones

3xCrisis with Dual Missile Pods, Target Locks, and 6x Marker Drones

8 Twinlinked BS5 Markerlights, 12 Twinlinked BS3 and 4 Twinlinked BS5 Skyfire S7 Ignores Cover Tank/Monster Hunter Shots at up to five different targets all tanked by a 2+/4++/5+++ T5 Commander with expendable marker drones for LOS.

Markerlights then feed VT HBC Riptides and one has an ECPA. Only problem is Majority T4 and the unit can only take a finite number of wounds through the BuffCommander.

Or...

O'Vesa

TE BuffComander

3xCrisis with Dual Missile Pod Suits with Targets Locks

for 12 Twinlinked BS3 and 4 Twinlinked BS2 S7 Missiles and an Ion Accelerator/Fusion Blaster all with Ignores Cover and Tank/Monster Hunter at up to 4 different targets out of a Majority T6 Unit with a 2+/4++/5+++ and 2+/5(3)++/5+++ Tanking.

It should still be a legal set up as you are joining the Buffcommander to the suits, then joining O'Vesa to them. Doesn't great the IC joinin a unit with a MC. As it occurs during your "turn" you as the controlling player get to decide the order of operations.

This is definitely a tankier setup, but requires me to take Farsight and waste an ECPA on O'Vesa...

Obviously these are my tournament builds, and I'm debating which one is my front runner to bring to NOVA. I also have some variation that ally with my Eldar.

 Zagman wrote:

 Commander_Farsight wrote:
Personally I am looking more at Fenclaves as being stronger than initial Tau. Not going to go into specifics at this time, but I'll post my experiences of it after the Bay Area Open. Consider it though.

I feel Mono TE or Mono FE are at the same power level, but thanks to CADs being based on Faction, not source material you can mix and match to a certain degree. At least that is how Reecius ruled it for the BAO. FE Suits and Riptides with a TE BuffCommander is where it is at.

100% Agree!!

Firebase Cadre is kind of cheesed in all honesty. Still, at the point values I desire to play, the formation isn't exactly a bad idea. Rail-sides without the tank-hunter aren't bad either, though they lost 50% of Table Rolls explode, which is less of them being less effective and more of vehicles being a bitch to kill in general. I find s7 to be very disappointing for fighting anything with an armor value above twelve. Having the emergency HP shots against a Raider was the selling point for the Railsides.

Longstrike is not as terrible as the internet has us believe. The preference is just for Broadsides for tournament play. You are still hitting on a 2+ with Tank Hunter with incredible range and will vehicle destroy on a 5+. If you really need that one shot to count then that is what markerlights are for.

I also have moved to railsides with max missile drones on a Skyshield for 7th. There's also enough space on the Skyshield for a pathfinder unit or Skyray depending on the need for protection. You can even give cover to your Riptide.

Add Farsight bomb with fusions for the increasingly frequent Lords of War, IKs, and the return of the AM parking lots that are now starting to see play.

Troops are Min squad firewarriors in devilfish, and 2 man missile pod/flamer crisis suits for objective secured grabbing. Reserve/deepstrike as needed. I have moved away from Kroot with the nerf to sniper rifles.

Classic Hammer and Anvil tactics.