Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Fellow warriors of Chaos...
I believe I have come to realize how incredible Belakor can be to our army in 7th. Belakor will be practically invincible in the air. He's a FMC that will take 6's to kill him usually, but that's not all. He's also shrouded naturally, which means if you jink with him in the air, he gets a 2+ cover save, not the usual 4+. This along with nerfed grounded tests, Belakor will be practically unstoppable.

But if you jink, he snap fires. I would claim it doesn't matter because his main use will be his two buffs. First priority (if you have a number of vehicles) should be his first powerful spell. No I'm not thinking of invisibility, but rather Shrouding. If you properly position your 2-3 rhinos so that they end up being 6" away from Belakor, they will get the shrouded special rule. Pop smoke and you've got a 3+ cover save. Nothing ridiculous, but it sure will greatly mitigate a lot of firepower and might get your opponent to focus his shooting elsewhere or waste quite a bit on these inexpensive rhinos. Rather than 3 lascannon pens getting through, only 1 probably will make it. Even then the vehicle damage chart has changed in our favor.

That's only 1 warp charge. Now you can use invisibility on another vehicle, maybe a Maulfiend or a Land Raider. Now you have 4-5 very difficult to kill units that are steaming forward towards that squishy AM/Tau Line. Bring another ML 3 Sorcerer and you might have enough warp charge points to beat Eldar deny attempts. You'll also be fast enough to get to those Tzeench Heralds to try to halt factory production.

And those spells only cost min 3 WC. You have the means to survive as well as enough unused power and punch in the rest of your units to be used flexibly as you see fit.

Glory to Chaos.

(**Note: This is only turn one. I would not use Belakor in this fashion in any other turn. Personally, I'd unload my chaos assaulty goodness and have him land in safety turn two. **)

Or I use him with Daemons and get the grimoire on him and use him and fateweaver as part of the much more cheese ladened Daemon book to reap everyone's tears as I functionally have all the durability of a 2++ rerollable unit. One that can throw psychic shriek on any unfortunate soul to get in his way while Fateweaver flies around throwing spells or adding dice like an donkey-cave.

If you somehow get a wound I can even potentially reroll one invulnerable save via Fateweaver just to spite you.

I have also mastered the art of dodging thrown books.

That is like the worst use of be'lakor i have heard yet, he is so much better than that.. You can do better.

Yes. Indeed you can.

However, with the changes to FMCs and MCs, I believe Chaos will be stronger faction to use Belakor in. FMCs are forced to have a turn in the open, and that's where everyone will slam them. Even if they don't, a walker will easily tie them up. We should take a number of mobile assault units that can get to the psykers quickly and destroy them. Heck we could probably even take raptors because Daemons will be summoning. They'll get their 3-4 units out turn one, but turn two, we crush their summoning units. In the following turns, their created daemons will die quickly to our thirsty blades.

Flesh hound blobs will be a challenge, as well as getting FMCs on the ground. However, I am not concerned about factories, FMCs, and your 2+ rerollable ( as close combat rarely encounters 2+ rerollable saves). If it does, at least CC will tie it up.

crimson_caesar wrote:
Yes. Indeed you can.

However, with the changes to FMCs and MCs, I believe Chaos will be stronger faction to use Belakor in. FMCs are forced to have a turn in the open, and that's where everyone will slam them. Even if they don't, a walker will easily tie them up. We should take a number of mobile assault units that can get to the psykers quickly and destroy them. Heck we could probably even take raptors because Daemons will be summoning. They'll get their 3-4 units out turn one, but turn two, we crush their summoning units. In the following turns, their created daemons will die quickly to our thirsty blades.

Flesh hound blobs will be a challenge, as well as getting FMCs on the ground. However, I am not concerned about factories, FMCs, and your 2+ rerollable ( as close combat rarely encounters 2+ rerollable saves). If it does, at least CC will tie it up.

So by making FMC's harder to hit, that makes chaos better?
Why exactly does my FMC have to be in the open?
And how are you going to tie up my fying FMC with a walker? Extendo legs??

I think you need to go over the rules some more. Also, I doubt many actual daemon lists will focus on summoning, its not that great of a tactic and people will realize that soon enough. Its designed for utility, spawn maybe 1 unit per turn as needed, it has essentially taken the place of my portaglyph.. if you go too overboard you will be spending too many resources on models that wont be helping you all that much.

 Admiral General Aladeen wrote:

crimson_caesar wrote:
Yes. Indeed you can.

However, with the changes to FMCs and MCs, I believe Chaos will be stronger faction to use Belakor in. FMCs are forced to have a turn in the open, and that's where everyone will slam them. Even if they don't, a walker will easily tie them up. We should take a number of mobile assault units that can get to the psykers quickly and destroy them. Heck we could probably even take raptors because Daemons will be summoning. They'll get their 3-4 units out turn one, but turn two, we crush their summoning units. In the following turns, their created daemons will die quickly to our thirsty blades.

Flesh hound blobs will be a challenge, as well as getting FMCs on the ground. However, I am not concerned about factories, FMCs, and your 2+ rerollable ( as close combat rarely encounters 2+ rerollable saves). If it does, at least CC will tie it up.

So by making FMC's harder to hit, that makes chaos better?
Why exactly does my FMC have to be in the open?
And how are you going to tie up my fying FMC with a walker? Extendo legs??

I think you need to go over the rules some more. Also, I doubt many actual daemon lists will focus on summoning, its not that great of a tactic and people will realize that soon enough. Its designed for utility, spawn maybe 1 unit per turn as needed, it has essentially taken the place of my portaglyph.. if you go too overboard you will be spending too many resources on models that wont be helping you all that much.

1. FMC being harder to kill let's them get into combat with more wounds and let someone like Belakor do psychic tricks in the air unbothered. Of course that makes him better.
2. If your FMC wants to get into CC, it's gotta land from swooping. I'm going to nail it with fire. If it jumps, I get 2 turns to nail it with fire.
3, Armor 12. Your FMC probably has str 6. It takes a 6 to glance me. Smash you get only one attack with AP 2, so you probably won't destroy me. If I have a Maulerfiend I can move 12" with fleet, I can catch you and tie you up.

Belakor and fateweaver don't give 2 gaks about the FMC nerf because they are going to try to stay in the air the entire game.

 schadenfreude wrote:
Belakor and fateweaver don't give 2 gaks about the FMC nerf because they are going to try to stay in the air the entire game.

this, I'm currently working on a be'l air list! lol, onewith a big hound squad and some heralds, fun times fun times indeed!!

Obviously. I'm just saying CSM could use Belakor's buffs turn 1 really well. That's about it. You could bring Fate Weaver if you wanted.

Be'lakor is already invincible just with a single toe in any ruins.

he doesn't even have to do that, he gets jink just standing there i really like the idea of an invisible land raider.... what would you put in it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
don't have my rulebook on hand, but i had an idea, can a herald of khorne ride in a land raider with a juggernaut?

9 Plague marines with meltas and typhus since he adds to your warp charge pool.

Also belakor is best as a force multiplier. Its harder to get him into combat now with FMC changes so

he doesn't have to swoop anymore, his 2+ cover will get him into combat. also if you're facing alot of tau/eldar put the grimorie on him. 2++ and 2+ cover is hard to deal with.

crimson_caesar wrote:

 Admiral General Aladeen wrote:

crimson_caesar wrote:
Yes. Indeed you can.

However, with the changes to FMCs and MCs, I believe Chaos will be stronger faction to use Belakor in. FMCs are forced to have a turn in the open, and that's where everyone will slam them. Even if they don't, a walker will easily tie them up. We should take a number of mobile assault units that can get to the psykers quickly and destroy them. Heck we could probably even take raptors because Daemons will be summoning. They'll get their 3-4 units out turn one, but turn two, we crush their summoning units. In the following turns, their created daemons will die quickly to our thirsty blades.

Flesh hound blobs will be a challenge, as well as getting FMCs on the ground. However, I am not concerned about factories, FMCs, and your 2+ rerollable ( as close combat rarely encounters 2+ rerollable saves). If it does, at least CC will tie it up.

So by making FMC's harder to hit, that makes chaos better?
Why exactly does my FMC have to be in the open?
And how are you going to tie up my fying FMC with a walker? Extendo legs??

I think you need to go over the rules some more. Also, I doubt many actual daemon lists will focus on summoning, its not that great of a tactic and people will realize that soon enough. Its designed for utility, spawn maybe 1 unit per turn as needed, it has essentially taken the place of my portaglyph.. if you go too overboard you will be spending too many resources on models that wont be helping you all that much.

1. FMC being harder to kill let's them get into combat with more wounds and let someone like Belakor do psychic tricks in the air unbothered. Of course that makes him better.
2. If your FMC wants to get into CC, it's gotta land from swooping. I'm going to nail it with fire. If it jumps, I get 2 turns to nail it with fire.
3, Armor 12. Your FMC probably has str 6. It takes a 6 to glance me. Smash you get only one attack with AP 2, so you probably won't destroy me. If I have a Maulerfiend I can move 12" with fleet, I can catch you and tie you up.

You didnt really answer anything..
1, How does my daemons FMC being harder to hit make csm better?
2,Why would I land a str 9 with 6 shots gun platform on the ground to go into close combat?
3, did I mention I would likely be str 9? Also, how exactly would your walker get into close combat with my FMC to begin with? The extendo legs? Was I right???

Ah I see what you mean!

Right right, uh so yeah that's an issue xD. I haven't figured out how to deal with OTHER FMC.

To clarify my point, I think that Belakor will, in turn, be able to help CSM (with more assaulty stuff in mind) more than Daemons. Also I was thinking more about fighting lists that involved lots of horrors and heralds.
You have an excellent point. I'm not sure how to deal with enemy Belakors and Fateweavers. I would probably just buff my own guys, try to deny you as best I can (my list also has 2 ML3 psykers as well as 1 ML1). Chaos Space Marines don't exactly have great options with anti-air. Vector Strike with a drake? haha

CSM anti-air is a great topic for another thread. Getting flying bugs, daemons, and planes down has always been a challenge.

 zachwho wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
Belakor and fateweaver don't give 2 gaks about the FMC nerf because they are going to try to stay in the air the entire game.

this, I'm currently working on a be'l air list! lol, onewith a big hound squad and some heralds, fun times fun times indeed!!

But is your list from West Philli?