The Space Elves Changes with 7th ed

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Will1541**

ph34r wrote:
As far as space elves are concerned in 7e, is there a viable daemon summoning list for Eldar? Something making use of cheap Farseers with runes of witnessing and the spirit stone of -1 warp charge required?

I have more than half a mind to use the new wood elf Treeman/Treeman Ancient/Durthu as summoned Greater Daemons for an exodite/wraith themed Eldar army. Drycha, Branchwraith as summoned heralds, dryads as summoned lesser daemons.

Would a 2+ detachment list that starts off with

Farseer, runes of witnessing, spirit stone of Anath'lan - 130p
Spiritseer - 70p
Farseer, runes of witnessing, spirit stone of Anath'lan - 130p
10x Warlock Council - 350p

To give you 18+d6 warp charges to work with be viable? Is this buying too much into the "daemons summoning daemons summoning daemons" hype? If this is at all not terrible I'd love to do a crazy Eldar worldspirit/infinity circuit "daemons" list with Wood Elf tree dudes.

That's sounds really cool until you notice the fine print about player consent. From a competitve stanpoint, you won't be allowed to run unbound because all your opponents have to do to dq you is say "no." I don't believe you'll be able to place enough charge on the field and fill your required slots and have enough teams of psykers for it to be useful either. If you ran that, you'd need four troops, placing you around 750 points. Three Wave Serpents will annihilate the psykers and cut your factory short.

Also, you can only have one SSA per army.

Fluffy unbound, it'd be chill and I could see an exodite Commune with Nature thing going down and it'd be cool. Not competitive though.

**danny1995**

I'd like to point out, wave serpents + holofields + shrouding from telepathy = death, brutal, brutal death. Especially if you can get them into cover. 2+ cover wave serpent? Yes please. Also Wave Serpents are better because now they don't die from losing first turn, they can still get a 4+ turn one if something goes wrong (aka, you deploy for having first and someone seizes).

**Scipio Africanus**

HawaiiMatt wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
Bharring wrote:
Super-scoring Serpents is just wrong.

I think aside from scoring they were only slightly nerfed, but factoring in the scoring/superscoring, they're even "worse" now. Although with scoring and cover saturation, lists might have fewer of them, but they are still broken.

It needs a much bigger nerf before I'll put mine back on the table :(

Agreed, I won't use them on principle

But if you buy them for howling banshees is that enough of a give and take to make it balanced?

-Matt

I would honestly be okay if the serpent didn't move, that the guys inside could charge out, like fifth edition. But that would have to go for other tanks, like rhinos and chimeras as well.

**extremefreak17**

ph34r wrote:
As far as space elves are concerned in 7e, is there a viable daemon summoning list for Eldar? Something making use of cheap Farseers with runes of witnessing and the spirit stone of -1 warp charge required?

I have more than half a mind to use the new wood elf Treeman/Treeman Ancient/Durthu as summoned Greater Daemons for an exodite/wraith themed Eldar army. Drycha, Branchwraith as summoned heralds, dryads as summoned lesser daemons.

Would a 2+ detachment list that starts off with

Farseer, runes of witnessing, spirit stone of Anath'lan - 130p
Spiritseer - 70p
Farseer, runes of witnessing, spirit stone of Anath'lan - 130p
10x Warlock Council - 350p

To give you 18+d6 warp charges to work with be viable? Is this buying too much into the "daemons summoning daemons summoning daemons" hype? If this is at all not terrible I'd love to do a crazy Eldar worldspirit/infinity circuit "daemons" list with Wood Elf tree dudes.

A good start. However I will mention that the Spirit Stone of Anath'lan is a one per ARMY item.

**Mr Morden**

danny1995 wrote:
I'd like to point out, wave serpents + holofields + shrouding from telepathy = death, brutal, brutal death. Especially if you can get them into cover. 2+ cover wave serpent? Yes please. Also Wave Serpents are better because now they don't die from losing first turn, they can still get a 4+ turn one if something goes wrong (aka, you deploy for having first and someone seizes).

Yeah Serpents went from powerful cheese to a different flavour of ..............powerful cheese

**Farseer Anath'lan**

Mr Morden wrote:

Yeah Serpents went from powerful cheese to a different flavour of ..............powerful cheese

Parmesan to Gorgonzola!

The Jink save change is good in regards to the Serpents, changes them to slightly less gunboat to far more defensive. Whether it was a nerf remains to be seen.

Iyanden seems like it could be stupidly powerful. 5 Spiritseers per HQ slot? Good god. 30 charge points and two min sized squads of avengers runs to under 1200 points. Bring on the summoning spam!

**ph34r**

extremefreak17 wrote:
A good start. However I will mention that the Spirit Stone of Anath'lan is a one per ARMY item.

You're right, I thought multiple detachments might somehow get me multiple unique items.

How about a more legal list then, for 1500p:

Farseer, SSA, runes of warding - 130p
Spiritseer - 70p
5 Wraithguard - 160p
5 Wraithguard - 160p
5 Wraithguard - 160p
Wraithlord, sword - 125p
Wraithlord, sword - 125p
Wraithknight - 240p

Farseer, runes of warding - 115p
Spiritseer - 70p
6 Rangers - 72p
6 Rangers - 72p

It's only 10 + d6 warp charges, but that still gives you 2-3 shots at summoning spells each turn, and your spirit seers can still run around spirit marking stuff. Seems not super competitive but maybe workable for 1500p.

**Kain**

Scipio Africanus wrote:
HawaiiMatt wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
Bharring wrote:
Super-scoring Serpents is just wrong.

I think aside from scoring they were only slightly nerfed, but factoring in the scoring/superscoring, they're even "worse" now. Although with scoring and cover saturation, lists might have fewer of them, but they are still broken.

It needs a much bigger nerf before I'll put mine back on the table :(

Agreed, I won't use them on principle

But if you buy them for howling banshees is that enough of a give and take to make it balanced?

-Matt

I would honestly be okay if the serpent didn't move, that the guys inside could charge out, like fifth edition. But that would have to go for other tanks, like rhinos and chimeras as well.

I'd be so happy if assault was relevant to the units who can't fly across the board and/or eat a billion and a half bullets.

**Will1541**

ph34r wrote:
extremefreak17 wrote:
A good start. However I will mention that the Spirit Stone of Anath'lan is a one per ARMY item.
You're right, I thought multiple detachments might somehow get me multiple unique items.

How about a more legal list then, for 1500p:

Farseer, SSA, runes of warding - 130p
Spiritseer - 70p
5 Wraithguard - 160p
5 Wraithguard - 160p
5 Wraithguard - 160p
Wraithlord, sword - 125p
Wraithlord, sword - 125p
Wraithknight - 240p

Farseer, runes of warding - 115p
Spiritseer - 70p
6 Rangers - 72p
6 Rangers - 72p

It's only 10 + d6 warp charges, but that still gives you 2-3 shots at summoning spells each turn, and your spirit seers can still run around spirit marking stuff. Seems not super competitive but maybe workable for 1500p.

If I were to do it, I'd run something more like this.

PRIMARY
Farseer w? SSA - 115
Farseer - 100
5x Warlocks - 175
5x Guardian Defenders w/ Scat Laser or B. Lance - 550

ALLIED
2x Farseer - 100
4x Rangers 240

That is 1380 points with 17+D6 Warp Charge and units to hide them in. warlocks go with the Guardians for more wounds, Farseers jump in with rangers for cover bonuses. Add more Warlocks for flavor.

**LValx**

I ran 2 Farseers with my Guardians in 6th. I am starting to think that Eldar can no longer rely on psykers unless they go "all-in" and by that I mean Eldrad, a Farseer and 10 Warlocks. The issue is that powers are incredibly unreliable (I take Eldrad, a Stone Farseer and 2 Warlocks at 1850) and I am barely able to cast 2-3 powers a turn.

The issue I see is that with the above units, I am spending roughly 400 points that will be wasted vs any army that goes full on psyker heavy, be it Daemons, GK or even Seer Council Eldar. Seems pointless to invest that many points into something as chance-based as the psychic phase, it becomes even more depressing when you look at the opportunity cost of losing out on extra firepower and utility units (Serpents, Hawks/Spiders).

I am expecting to see way less Farseers and more Autarchs/Phoenix Lords.

**Will1541**

LValx wrote:
I ran 2 Farseers with my Guardians in 6th. I am starting to think that Eldar can no longer rely on psykers unless they go "all-in" and by that I mean Eldrad, a Farseer and 10 Guardians. The issue is that powers are incredibly unreliable (I take Eldrad, a Stone Farseer and 2 Warlocks at 1850) and I am barely able to cast 2-3 powers a turn.

The issue I see is that with the above units, I am spending roughly 400 points that will be wasted vs any army that goes full on psyker heavy, be it Daemons, GK or even Seer Council Eldar. Seems pointless to invest that many points into something as chance-based as the psychic phase, it becomes even more depressing when you look at the opportunity cost of losing out on extra firepower and utility units (Serpents, Hawks/Spiders).

I am expecting to see way less Farseers and more Autarchs/Phoenix Lords.

It's a Daemon Foundry... Kinda need psykers and Farseers are really cheap per charge at only 33 points per charge.