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639 backers... £89,671.... they've managed to un-fund. Never seen that happen before!

 Alpharius wrote:
I thought FINALLY settling the 'material issue' would have done the trick here!

The problem is that they have come across very amateurish (I'll happily admit translation issues account for a lot of that), and it still looks like they just don't have a plan. Even saying "x amount for this material, y amount for the other" just means that until the campaign is over (and possibly until the pledge managers/surveys are all in), you know that there can be no agreements being made with potential manufacturers, etc. The project has huge warning signs that scream 'development hell for years'.

Now there's a wider question about whether we've come to expect too much from Kickstarters, having been 'spoiled' by flashy campaigns from established companies with their manufacturing processes already lined up. But I can certainly see why backers (or potential backers) have been put off by how the campaign has been run.

Hmm.. I always thought you couldn't unfund a campaign once it's funded? I thought I remembered reading somewhere that if you were going to pull a pledge that makes it unfund, you get a message saying you can't?

 Necros wrote:
Hmm.. I always thought you couldn't unfund a campaign once it's funded? I thought I remembered reading somewhere that if you were going to pull a pledge that makes it unfund, you get a message saying you can't?

Thats only true in the last 24hrs.

The problem here might have been because they pretty much said HIPs from the start - kind of.

Then once it was 'cleared up' and revealed as not HIPs, they lost a significant chunk of funding.

I'm happy with 'real resin' but some may not be...

I just backed the project so I can post in the comments section. Grab your popcorn boys.

I'm pretty sure it'll fund again, enough people seem to not care that they will be fine, there's 'always' people waiting to jump in at th last minute.

Would be very strange if the slide continued. Although it might allow SG to reformat the KS for a second go that doesn't seem like they're just making things up as they go along.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Heh, it also amuses me that their entire FAQ is still vague nonsense.

'What Material' still says "The material will be HIPS (High Impact Polystyrene) but some items (vehicles for example) can be cast in PU resin." which apparently was never true.

'Shipping costs' give a number but then say 'approx', which is never good when you're ordering a number of boxed items adding up to 200+ large scale minis .

"What Scale" still says "At Scale games we have chosen to scale O (O gauge), where 7 mm correspond to 1 foot.
In this way a model of 1.80 m (6.8 ft) in reality, will measure 40 mm in total.
When we say that a human is 35 mm in FF we refer up to the eyes, not total, since is commonly used as a standar among brands selling kits of 54 or 75 mm." which is a mess of crap, the o gauge part seems to be the only correct sentence, the other parts are a typo and a lie.

And the gameplay question points to a youtube interview with Michael Bartels where they just basicaly advertise their kickstaretr in pigeon english. There's no actual gameplay examples or anything. It doesn't even have a link to the tiny rules pamphlet they are calling 'beta'.

 cincydooley wrote:
I just backed the project so I can post in the comments section. Grab your popcorn boys.

Hi Cincydooley, are you the irishman by any chance?

Maaaayyyyybeeeee.

All I know is that this Irshman fellow backed our Kickstarter, so I think he is wise with his money.

Also it appears that scale is reading Dakka.

Well, I'd like to think that the open communication here is what they'd be after.

In fact, Scale has already thanked backers for the constructive criticism and critical comments as it has helped them improve.

Again, if Prodos can produce resin minis for 960+ backers, I'd think that Scale can do the same - and I'd bet that their quality might be better given that they've already got experience doing it, contacts, materials, etc.

 Cyporiean wrote:
All I know is that this Irshman fellow backed our Kickstarter, so I think he is wise with his money.

Also it appears that scale is reading Dakka.

Yah. I got a kick out of that.

While I might wish for SG to communicate 'officially' a bit more, I think a lot of this can be chalked up to 'lost in translation' and maybe not enough 'up front' work here?

They certainly seem like well-meaning, friendly types and they've got the experience with the material...

It might end up being late, but if they go with resin, I think it will be good.

They're not happy with me. C'est la vie.

I guess it wouldn't be the right time to point out that I'm pretty critical or any non-transparent KS project in their comments on the KS, would it. I guess it's good they'll read it here then.

I love how this gak looks. The designs are great. The scale minis I own are beautiful.

I don't like that they lied about scale and material.

I don't like that they couldn't get a 175 backer project delivered in the same quarter as their estimate. I don't like that production for this's will run into Chinese New Year.

I also don't believe they can produce HIPS for everything they're claiming for $130k based on the knowledge I have from CMoN and WWX.

These are valid concerns.

Damn!

Down to £89K now!

I hope this one does NOT pull a THON!

I like the look and scale of these miniatures, and now that the material issues has been settled...!

 Alpharius wrote:
Damn!

Down to £89K now!

I hope this one does NOT pull a THON!

Why? Sometimes not funding is the best thing that can happen for the backers as it protects them from themselves.

A dip in the middle is pretty normal for most KS projects I'm sure it'll climb back up to funding level without much of an issue. I'll be surprised however if there a big explosion of backing in the last two days, they'll get some but I'm not sure that they'll get the normal rush of stuff that mirrors the first two days of growth. Once trust is shaken the only thing they can really appeal to is people's greed and use major discounting to draw in new backers at this point.

Even if they shored things up at this point I'm not going to re-back things as it just doesn't seem like they have things lined up properly. Sure they may say we're going to do x but they should have been clear from the get go on what type of product there were going to deliver and should not have needed their arm twisted by their customer base to form a plan. For all the art and pre-planning work that obviously went into the game they seem to have completely dropped the ball when it came to preparing for production. Maybe they've recovered from that fumble and they'll end up with a half time turn around but it's shaken the confidence of a lot of backers and I don't see them jumping back aboard.

It's a shame as they have a nice looking product, but this is another game that I'll end up waiting to see if/when it hits retail. If not, no worries as I'm sure some other game will pop up in it's place.

a lot of damage has been done and slipping below funding will make people antsy. Those that want a good deal via stretch goals will probably also back out as there is less of a chance many will be unlocked.

To be honest cincydooley you are the type of person JR was talking about and it puts Dakka Dakka in bad light. Backing only to comment bad form old boy.

But JR is the kind of person that puts Kickstarter Comments section in a bad light, to the point where they're almost useless.

I think cincy honestly wants this one to succeed, and now that it is most likely going to be 'resin', I think he's more likely to stay in!

I think what happened here is that there were a lot of people in this thinking it was going to be HIPs, hard plastic, and when that was finally officially shown to not be the case, well, here we are.

I'm MORE than OK with resin being the material - especially as the 'threat' of PVC has been removed.

This one can still bounce back, but SG is going to have to get a LOT better in their communications.

 Necros wrote:
Hmm.. I always thought you couldn't unfund a campaign once it's funded? I thought I remembered reading somewhere that if you were going to pull a pledge that makes it unfund, you get a message saying you can't?

It's only on the final day (might be last 12 hours) that you can't pull enough of your pledge to unfund a project

Yeah but two wrongs don't make a right Alpha. As Scale games pointed out in the comments "bring out the popcorn" makes it look like Dakka its producing trolls and reveling in the discord of a kickstarter.

Just saying what it looks like to me.

Totally agree about the Resin was not expecting it so soon and interesting to see what triage they administer

 Alpharius wrote:
Damn!

Down to £89K now!

I hope this one does NOT pull a THON!

I like the look and scale of these miniatures, and now that the material issues has been settled...!

Unless this is the world's most wel finromed group of pledgers or the world's most easily turned off by loons in the comment section ones then it should stil be fine, the haemorrhaging in will slow/stop and then moe people will show up, especially at the end.

I would still guess the only reaosn it won' comfortably overfund is if SG pull it to start again without ballsing everything up as much as possible but I doubt they'll do that, I simply don't think a '40mm+ resin skirmish game' has the kind of snowball power as a '35mm plastic skirmish game".

 Pilgrim_uk wrote:
To be honest cincydooley you are the type of person JR was talking about and it puts Dakka Dakka in bad light. Backing only to comment bad form old boy.

And you're entitled to think that. I'm presently in for a £100 pledge, so at the very least I'm speaking with my wallet. They'll notice a £100 loss in pledging more than a £5 one, and I don't typically do that anyways because I'm not a troll. Again, if you'll look back at the first few pages of their thread, you'll notice I had it on my watch list from the beginning. I only started commenting because I can't stand Super Snowball Supporters and I think it's important to provide a counterpoint to them and hold the companies accountable for their mismanagement and lack of transparency.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Additionally, someone needs to bring up the Duel Fighters is gonna be at least 3 months late with only 175 backers elephant that seems to be ignored.

Please spare me the righteousness Dooley. Yes you really are a bastion.

what was the issue with Duel Fighters?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I just read the most recent comments on duel fighters and the updates ... looks like they are having some issues with the sculpting and manufacturing in china and hence the delays.

This might prove problematic couple with the unknown manufacturing route they are taking for Fallen Frontiers.

Check out the Duel Fighters KS its worth a glance through.

zreef wrote:
what was the issue with Duel Fighters?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I just read the most recent comments on duel fighters and the updates ... looks like they are having some issues with the sculpting and manufacturing in china and hence the delays.

This might prove problematic couple with the unknown manufacturing route they are taking for Fallen Frontiers.

Check out the Duel Fighters KS its worth a glance through.

It only concerns me because their production window sits pretty squarely in the scary "super delays can happen" Chinese New Year window.

That was bad news indeed 3 month delay as dooley mentioned should have been getting them this month but September at the least. Got one of the resin pieces at 75mm and 20 quid a pop its pretty good although it does always feel better when its a metal piece ( not really better just that value for money feeling you get when you pick up a metal piece). Supposedly its a different team thats dealing with FF who did Duel fighters according to Volomir.

I think their 75MM scuplts are well worth the money. They're great. It's a fun (and different) scale to paint in. Prob my fave 75mms after Knights and Andrea.

Excuse me, can anyone tell a KS that made minis in HIPS?? not a big company like GW

Caballero Negro wrote:
Excuse me, can anyone tell a KS that made minis in HIPS?? not a big company like GW

Dreamforge Games, Tablescapes, Through the breach, Wild West Exodos.