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Gotta say, I've been following this KS from its inception, and I just want to see it succeed. So let's hope that the resin test model pulls people back in, because holy gak is it nice!

~Tim?

Something about how the shadows fall onto that model looks 'off' to me...

 Cyporiean wrote:
Something about how the shadows fall onto that model looks 'off' to me...

Aaaaand here we go again.

~Tim?

That's just a cosplaying goblin made up to LOOK like a resin miniature! Fraud!

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:

 Cyporiean wrote:
Something about how the shadows fall onto that model looks 'off' to me...

Aaaaand here we go again.

~Tim?

It looks legit to me - you can see the 3D printing marks have not been cleaned off properly under the neck before casting.

 legoburner wrote:
It looks legit to me - you can see the 3D printing marks have not been cleaned off properly under the neck before casting.

Yeah, I'm not saying that its a render... just that the way light/shadows flow on the model look 'off' to me.

I dont think its a render.

huh ... if you look at the second picture front leg, the shadows above the creases almost look like the were shaded in with a wash. gah


Automatically Appended Next Post:
... naw its probably just a sharp light source

 Cyporiean wrote:

 legoburner wrote:
It looks legit to me - you can see the 3D printing marks have not been cleaned off properly under the neck before casting.

Yeah, I'm not saying that its a render... just that the way light/shadows flow on the model look 'off' to me.

Some resins just look a bit weird when photographed 'raw'.

If everyone gets proper PU resin minis at roughly £1,30 each (starter price) that is a steal.
I never thought I'd be worried about resin minis being too cheap, but here we are
I mean 4 starters consisting of 76 resin 40+mm for £100 Unheard of.
The siren song beckens me to just buy lots of starters... but I'd feel dirty somehow

Actually I really don't understand how that will support and help give this game a viable future.
Unless it's only meant to have this exact effect and get them grossly overfunded, as resin makes no sense to me at all.

If they continue to be resin at retail - the prices would have to rise 2x at least, but likely 3x to begin to make sense business wise.
Everyone that didn't back it will be pissed about the price hike and everyone that bought in, will already have what they want or be pissed about the price hike.

Could someone maybe ask what retail would possibly look like if this "stays" resin?

Some price speculation/comparison

I honestly don't think this will stay resin, on the table. I think it will get that 130k mark that will initiate the HIPs production. Whether or not you feel comfortable with the keeping that promise at a lower funding goal is an entirely different matter.

HIPS for the starter set with resin boosters might be more feasible. Then Scale would at least be getting the benefit of those core models being tooled.

@Piston: I don't think this will stay resin either - just saying

@plastictrees: Yes that does seems more realistic and perhaps sustainable with the booster pricing.

If this one followed the "WWX" model, I'd be OK with that.

HIPs for 'troops', resin for characters.

 Alpharius wrote:
If this one followed the "WWX" model, I'd be OK with that.

HIPs for 'troops', resin for characters.

I recommended that in the comments.

I didn't get a +1

These discussions about materials and pricing, harms this project.

Lets talk about material choice when Relic Knight KS was active? There was no discussion about material during their campaign, they only had art and their master collecter models to promote the campaign, how misleading was that? Does Scale Games pay the price for their mistakes? After 2 months of counting money they came with an apdate. We gonna look for a factory that can produce this mass with shity stuff. But this is going offtopic now.... My humble apologies.

Have faith in Scale Games these guys listen to backers (whats good for you, is good for them), unlike some companies.

koffietheekan wrote:
These discussions about materials and pricing, harms this project.

Lets talk about material choice when Relic Knight KS was active? There was no discussion about material during their campaign, they only had art and their master collecter models to promote the campaign, how misleading was that? Does Scale Games pay the price for their mistakes? After 2 months of counting money they came with an apdate. We gonna look for a factory that can produce this mass with shity stuff. But this is going offtopic now.... My humble apologies.

Have faith in Scale Games these guys listen to backers (whats good for you, is good for them), unlike some companies

Nice shilly first post bro.

And to continue:

Their lack of transparency harmed the project. Their dishonest harmed the project. Concern over production material is a legitimate concern.

I'm happy they're choosing resin. Even if they hit £130k, I don't believe it will be enough money to do everything in plastic. Based on knowledge if the industry and industry contacts that I have, I don't believe the £130k is enough. Artemis has said as much.

And as happy as I am about the resin, I don't believe, based on their issues with the significantly smaller Duel Fighters game, that they'll be even remotely able to deliver by April 2015. I'd love to be wrong, because I like the models and designs, but I don't think I am.

But you can continue to be blindly faithful. I'll leave that for Sundays.

Im going to give them a chance, I really hope I dont regret it. Im besotted by shiny toys. I like what they are offering. Please don't think bad of me if it goes tits up

 cincydooley wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
If this one followed the "WWX" model, I'd be OK with that.

HIPs for 'troops', resin for characters.

I recommended that in the comments.

I didn't get a +1

Heh!

Is the whole "+1" thing just really big in this campaign, or is it a widespread Kickstarter thing?

Anyway, I think this one will rebound, get funded and finish comfortably north of that goal.

I hope!

 Alpharius wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
If this one followed the "WWX" model, I'd be OK with that.

HIPs for 'troops', resin for characters.

I recommended that in the comments.

I didn't get a +1

Heh!

Is the whole "+1" thing just really big in this campaign, or is it a widespread Kickstarter thing?

Anyway, I think this one will rebound, get funded and finish comfortably north of that goal.

I hope!

+1 Alpha

koffietheekan wrote:
Have faith in Scale Games these guys listen to backers (whats good for you, is good for them), unlike some companies.

Sure, they've shown that they listen. But the apparent indecision over materials and the sidestepping and vague answers given at the start of the Kickstarter do not promote faith that they know what they are doing.

I'm sure they're wonderful people and devoted hobbyists, and that they've produced some awesome stuff in the past. But that doesn't automatically mean that they're equipped to pull off a project on this scale, and their behaviour so far suggests otherwise.


It looks more and more like this project should have waited another month or two before launch while they did a little more research and crunched a few more numbers.

I've realised tonight I need to be more open to new ideas hence im hoping we can, with scale games involvement move forward and deliver an awesome game.

Everyone here gets a +1.

A prince in Africa needs to hide some of his +1s from Warlords. In exchange of giving him my bank info and SS number he is giving me a few million +1s as payment. Enjoy everyone.

I didn't realize their first campaign is delayed, and had issues with the Chinese producer, until someone mentioned it above and I just checked the updates... that doesn't inspire confidence, either.

I'll take it!

Resin miniatures here are going to look fantastic.

It might turn out to be a Mierce KS 1 type of deal, but if it get this game rolling, OK!

Well I've changed my mind and have decided to give them a chance. I'm hoping I'm not diving into the abyss but sometimes you have to go all in with 2 pair.

 Alpharius wrote:
It might turn out to be a Mierce KS 1 type of deal, but if it get this game rolling, OK!

That's a fair point, as in hindsight that campaign was one of the best deals I've ever seen. I'd probably have already pledged for an add-on here if the scale were smaller. Resin is the best!

Think calling them "Dishonest" is a bit unfair thats my take on it. Misguided perhaps.

 Pilgrim_uk wrote:
Think calling them "Dishonest" is a bit unfair thats my take on it. Misguided perhaps.

On the contrary "dishonest" is a pretty fair description imo, though "ill-prepared" and "deceitful" are better terms.
They lied about the scale, they lied about the material, they lied about the shipping times and according to manufacturers they keep on lying since HIPS production with 130K (which after fees it adds up to something like 115K) is hardly enough even for cheap Chinese manufacturing.
At this point I wish they hit the 130K limit, so they -again- will prove themselves inadequate. This may sound "evil" but educates customers more, just like Artemis Black pointed it out a failure at this budget (we're talking 130K GBP !!!) could penalize future campaigns both for creators and backers who bear zero responsability for Fallen/Falling Frontiers.

What more concerns me though is how this project managed to get this much attention when it has become so obvious that the company has simply zero experience nor done any of their homework when it comes to creating projects/games of this scale... (lol, see what I have done here?)

I don't see where they lied about scale, they posted a picture of miniatures to well known scenery.

However, what they were was needlessly evasive about the scale, which is super weird and definitely was a red flag.

Honestly the scale thing was a huge overreaction, and all this name calling probably did more to hurt the discussion than help.

Then, and again, they were needlessly evasive about the material. Which I stress that it would have been perfectly fine and normal to have plans for multiple material types depending on funding. But, you need to state that up front and provide clear goals for when certain things get converted from restic to hard plastic or hard resin. You turn it into a goal to be reached, not something you dance around trying to hope that enough people buy in early.

Then as soon as they committed to hard plastic, all the negative nancies immediately switch to complaining about something else and casting doubt on everything, often making up silly arguments.

Overall, this kickstarter has plenty of problems, and the creators should have thought a lot more through before they started.

But this culture of negativity only made things worse, not better. It's a very specific set of people that do nothing but pile on any perceived weakness, or make up more where there aren't.

I foresee some good, rock solid kickstarters being brought unnecessarily low by this same kind of negativity.

The interesting point brought up here is that yes, Fallen Frontiers is absolutely paying a price for the mistakes of other KS projects. Consumers have seen many overly late projects delivering inconsistent results and have taken notes on the common threads these unsatisfactory experiences shared. Thusly informed by what derailed others they are now on the lookout for the mistakes other projects made such as the seeming-mystery that China does nothing for the same month every year.

Is it "fair" that Scale has to take some flak because of these other failures in the KS market? In a perfect world maybe not but in this world it's part of the due diligence in trying to get funding from KS. You should know what the consumer experience has been and what pain points people are going to ask you about and have answers at the ready, not answers you have to go think about for a while. By not having that market research squared away, it brings into focus that there might be other major tasks that were similarly not done. Those are warning flags from the get-go and sending up those flags will cost a project backers.

I don't think Scale is being intentionally misleading; I think they just didn't plan things out anywhere near good enough to bring out this KS and now have to scramble to address things. For me, that's enough to be moved into the "maybe at retail" column.