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 scadianforlife wrote:
Artemis, are you familiar with O scale? My wife's hobby is model trains. O Scale is not exact. According to wiki:

Scale 7 mm to 1 ft –
6.35 mm to 1 ft

Here's the web address: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_scale
Last I checked 6.8 is between 7and 6.35, correct? I agree it's on the smaller side.
Average height of a MALE (to be precise) is 1.77 meters (5' 10") in the USA. The FEMALE of our specie clocks in at 163.2 meters (5' 8") in the USA.
My source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height#Average_height_around_the_world
I would love to see your souce though as it will come in handy in one of my calculations.
I believe SG is using an interesting scale, trying to carve out a niche for themselves. If eye level is at 35mm, then to the top of the head on a MALE mini would be roughly 38mm or 39mm, correct? Maybe they got 40mm by adding armor, caps, spikes?

I will as them how they got to their scale number.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I sent your remarks to SG, I want to see how they respond.

I think you misunderstood a couple of bits sorry. I wasn't making any statements of my own, about specific averages of human height or the vaguaries of o gauge etc I was just restating their FAQ.

We know their human guy is roughly 40mm tall, from the images. Which correlates perfectly with their statement that they are 'o gauge and using 7mm to 1ft'. That would make the human an average sized guy whether he's 40 or 41mm etc. So far so good.

However "7mm to 1ft" is 'not' the same scale as "35mm to the eyes". As that would clearly make the average human male 5ft to the eyes. which is ridiculous.

The 6,8ft thing is a typo, 1.8m is 5.8ft or 5ft 10 inches. i.e. it should say 5.8 not 6.8.
A typo is perfectly understandable, especially as their English is not perfect, but it hasn't been corrected and it makes things more complicated as it currently reads that a 6.8ft man is 40mm which means a 6ft man is down around 35mm to top of head which is not their scale but makes things much more confusing when 35mm is also said elsehwere.

By all available evidence, including word from Scale Games themselves, this is a 40mm game. Everyone in the mini industry would call a game that has 40mm humans in it a 40mm game and in a couple of places Scale Games have. They just seem to have a problem writing that in the correct place and I have no idea why.

They just seem to have a problem writing that in the correct place and I have no idea why.

You and me both. I have already told them to be careful with their words since that faux pax with the material. I will keep prsssing them for both of us.

40mm, though....that is quite a unique scale. Few minis in that range. Mostly historical if memory serves.

 scadianforlife wrote:

They just seem to have a problem writing that in the correct place and I have no idea why.

You and me both. I have already told them to be careful with their words since that faux pax with the material. I will keep prsssing them for both of us.

40mm, though....that is quite a unique scale. Few minis in that range. Mostly historical if memory serves.

Indeed, and despite a bunch of photos of their minis stood in the open corners of existing scenery sets it will cause problems for people in that respect too. At best you'll be using what used to be chest height guard rails as thigh high handrails on GW style scenery and on larger sets like Deadzone they'll still be a little precarious.
(Anyone want to measure a doorway on any of their scenery and see if 45mm+ minis on bases will fit through them cos the Ares guys in suits and some of the aliens are taller than humans and bases are 3mm thick too?)

Which is why them saying '35mm' but presenting 40mm was an issue. 35mm to the top of the head would fit in ok with Infinity for example, they'd be a couple mm taller but nothing obscene. These most definitely will not.

Even gameplay wise these minis are about 20-25% larger than GW, or PP or Infinity and it's Sci-fi so has the game compensated with movement rates and gun ranges etc? (i really don't know, I only scanned the rules and noticed there weren't many of them) With a 30mm game a 4ft wide table represent roughly 244ft across, in this game the same table only represents 174ft. That's the kind of difference the rules would need to compensate for or everyone would need a bigger table

I'm not going to ask what scale this is... also not sure how you go about getting one. 'Waiting for retail' probably the safest bet!



I liked it at first glance, but looking at it a bit more it seems way over-designed (for a military vehicle), and I don't like the small-large wheel setup. Makes it look like a Tonka toy.

As Artemis has pointed out the scale can be a factor also in other ways. The difference between 1/35 and 1/32 can be quite telling between manufacturers if you want to mix and match pieces in a dioramas. (Have tried and it is noticeable) Luckily Manufacturers can have their own ideas on scale. look at the difference between medicoms 1/6 and sideshows 1/6.

At near enough 1/48 scale you could probably get away with some of the plastic model stuff. Which is 35mm to the eyes. with a hat or helmet taking it to near enough 37/38mm.



I imagine some folk could mod some modern 1/48 armoured pieces to work with the FF pieces. Just don't expect it all to work.

Also on scale look at Mierce's range of figures while a 30mm game how many of its figures are 40mm+ Does it bother its players? anybody playtested it?

@Pilgrim, @Artemis
I got this response:

We said in comments that next figure will be shown with a scale to check the size.

I missed that comment while I was with a client. Somthing about they will have a ruler beside a model.
We will wait until then.

 scadianforlife wrote:
@Pilgrim, @Artemis
I got this response:

We said in comments that next figure will be shown with a scale to check the size.

I missed that comment while I was with a client. Somthing about they will have a ruler beside a model.
We will wait until then.

Ah well, you tried.

To me it seems like they aren't learning from their mistakes. It shouldn't take 2 weeks to post a photo of a mini next to a ruler, it shouldn't take 2 hours. When you combine that delay with things like the FAQ , the original '35mm scale claim', photoshopping of larger than 25mm bases onto their minis and renders, using 75mm figures in advertising, even their new resin figure has been shopped out of whatever background it was etc. It really just looks bad.
It doesn't matter if it's just because they don't understand they aren't doing it very well or if they are in fact being dodgy, it 'looks' dodgy, and perception is incredibly important.

They really need to hire someone to actually interact with the public who has the information necessary to give a straight answer to a straight question. They've either set out to be misleading or they have bungled this badly, I have no idea which, but they aren't going to start skyrocketing through goals again until they stop.

They really need to hire someone to actually interact with the public who has the information necessary to give a straight answer to a straight question.

+1 to that.

Why don't you apply? You've been around the block. Can you speak Spanish? Castillian? You would be great at it.

 scadianforlife wrote:

They really need to hire someone to actually interact with the public who has the information necessary to give a straight answer to a straight question.

+1 to that.

Why don't you apply? You've been around the block. Can you speak Spanish? Castillian? You would be great at it.

*laugh* Well I kinda have that job for someone else right now and even if I didn't, my bet is that is that my application would be printed out on hundreds of small soft sheets of paper

 Artemis Black wrote:

 scadianforlife wrote:

They really need to hire someone to actually interact with the public who has the information necessary to give a straight answer to a straight question.

+1 to that.

Why don't you apply? You've been around the block. Can you speak Spanish? Castillian? You would be great at it.

*laugh* Well I kinda have that job for someone else right now and even if I didn't, my bet is that is that my application would be printed out on hundreds of small soft sheets of paper

See if we can convince Aplharius, or even Cincy?

 scadianforlife wrote:

 Artemis Black wrote:

 scadianforlife wrote:

They really need to hire someone to actually interact with the public who has the information necessary to give a straight answer to a straight question.

+1 to that.

Why don't you apply? You've been around the block. Can you speak Spanish? Castillian? You would be great at it.

*laugh* Well I kinda have that job for someone else right now and even if I didn't, my bet is that is that my application would be printed out on hundreds of small soft sheets of paper

See if we can convince Aplharius, or even Cincy?

I think one of the weirdest things was someone in the comments introduced themselves as the person in charge of social media for them. No offence to that guy but Jesus. I hope he does something more useful for them as well

:( it keeps shrinking. I am hopeful they create a pledge with just the characters. Unfortunately no one in my area is looking to pick it up to play so it will be a painting project for me.

Zreef - what part of the USA are you in?

 scadianforlife wrote:
Artemis, are you familiar with O scale? My wife's hobby is model trains. O Scale is not exact. According to wiki:

Scale 7 mm to 1 ft –
6.35 mm to 1 ft

Here's the web address: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_scale
Last I checked 6.8 is between 7and 6.35, correct? I agree it's on the smaller side.
Average height of a MALE (to be precise) is 1.77 meters (5' 10") in the USA. The FEMALE of our specie clocks in at 163.2 meters (5' 8") in the USA.
My source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height#Average_height_around_the_world
I would love to see your souce though as it will come in handy in one of my calculations.
I believe SG is using an interesting scale, trying to carve out a niche for themselves. If eye level is at 35mm, then to the top of the head on a MALE mini would be roughly 38mm or 39mm, correct? Maybe they got 40mm by adding armor, caps, spikes?

I will as them how they got to their scale number.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I sent your remarks to SG, I want to see how they respond.

Keep in mind that O scale is not a scale - it is a size like 28mm is not a scale it is a size. North American O scale (more accurately Gauge) is 1/48 scale. However, Lionel toy trains O Gauge is 1/43.5. British O Gauge is generally 1/43.5 - which is likely what they are basing their O Gauge off. Many of the continental Europe O Gauge Manufacturers have switched to 1/45 for their O Gauge scale as it splits the difference between the 1/48 and the 1/43.5. Japan and much of East Asia uses 1/45 and 1/50 as their O Gauge scale. Using O Scale (or Gauge) as an indicator of anything really isn't much more helpful than saying 28mm as it still leaves a lot of variation in terms of the actual size of the figure. 1/48 scale (or 1/43 scale...) is much more useful as that allows you to do some simple math and know how big things are.

That said - the 35mm to the eye thing isn't too far off. I stand at a bit over 6 foot, and when I am bare foot - my eye is right at 66" above the floor. At 1/48 scale that would make me 34.925 mm to the eyes. Roughly 38 mm tall. In 1/43.5 (the particular scale that they are using for their O) I would be 42 mm to the top of my head and 39 mm to the eye. Throw a pair of combat boots on me and it adds solid inch to my height (bringing the numbers to almost 43 and 40). Not a huge guy - but above average in terms of our current physiology.

So, in a round about way - them saying (initially) that they were 35mm would work for them if there was confusion within their own staff regarding which O Scale they were using (not too uncommon...because, as I mentioned already - O is a size, not a scale). One person who is writing everything up thinks O equals 1/48 and that would put them at 35mm figure size. The person who is actually sculpting and dealing with the prints thinks O is 1/43 and closer to a 38mm figure size. By the time they go live and realize what had happened - they need to decide should they go 1/43.5 or 1/48? It isn't really a lie, just confusion in their own ranks (not too different than the confusion sown by 28mm...).

Hopefully they make grounds and do actually keep to a scale (any scale...) - though for me, would have preferred 1/48 scale. Although both have resources available, you have more within 1/48 scale (from historical models to things like the Star Wars and BSG models) that people could use to dress up their game boards. Neither of them would be terribly unique sizes though. 35mm (1/48 O Gauge) is used by a half dozen somewhat significant manufacturers and items from within other ranges fall there accidently from time to time (even though they are often sold as being 32 or even 30mm figures). 40mm or 1/43.5 scale O Gauge is pretty common in historical circles and a lot of companies that do one shot characters for painters and collectors produce figures in that size as well.

I will say that for those who are concerned about their 28mm heroic terrain not matching up too well - it isn't really nearly as bad as you might think. The plastic bases which are commonly used on miniatures are around 2.5-3mm thick. When you throw a heroic 28mm on one of those they end up being 35mm tall for regular figures and many of them being close to 40mm. If you use a low profile (0.5-1mm) base with a 1/48 scale figure they are only a mm or two taller (and for "average" actually shorter than some of those). Granted if you put that taller figure on a tall base, then it would be a problem.

 Alpharius wrote:
Zreef - what part of the USA are you in?

WNY area, closest person is in Rochester (based on going through all the backers) and that is an hour drive for me.

Well, if you're ever in the Boston area we'll have to get a game of FALLEN FRONTIERS in!

 Alpharius wrote:
Well, if you're ever in the Boston area we'll have to get a game of FALLEN FRONTIERS in!

Sounds good, but first some Infinity as that is my all time fav.

I'm in upstate new york, near the PA boarder.

Where are you?

zreef wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Well, if you're ever in the Boston area we'll have to get a game of FALLEN FRONTIERS in!

Sounds good, but first some Infinity as that is my all time fav.

Fine by me - INFINITY first, then FF!

Has Scale mentioned roughly how many miniatures would be necessary to play a "normal" sized game of FF?

zreef wrote:
Has Scale mentioned roughly how many miniatures would be necessary to play a "normal" sized game of FF?

15-30 miniatures apparently.

This one continues to yo-yo up and down right near the (re)funding level.

Odd...

 Alpharius wrote:
This one continues to yo-yo up and down right near the (re)funding level.

Odd...

It might be the core of true believers doubling down in response to the drop. That would explain the total rebounding slightly yesterday despite the drop in backers.

New Update:

Update #33

Jun 14 2014
New Faction Pledges and Add-ons
Comment
2 likes

Hi all.

Considering your requests we have decided to create a new pledge for those of you that wanted to purchase a single faction and also have access to Stretch Goals. Furthermore from now on you can purchase heroes included in the starter packs for the amount of 5 pounds. With this we hope to meet the expectations of all those painters who wanted easy access to those extraordinary miniatures of characters.

Thanks for your support

That update might have an inverse effect initially as people pledge shuffle to get better deals. ... looks like it dropped some more :(

New backers will boost it back up eventually, but near term pledges like that tend to hurt.

In the past 4 days, they've lost 40 backers and about £6000, but...they're #1 on the Kicktraq Top 10?

In the past 4 days, Dust: Operation Babylon has gained 60 backers and about £18000 and they're...#6?

I'm at a loss as to why this one's bleeding backers and funds still.

The resin sample looked great, PVC is confirmed out, in house casting if confirmed in...

Everything looks good...though I'll admit that I'm not a fan of any of the vehicles so far.

Huh.

I have heard you can pay to have your ranking improved in the rankings (this might be complete hog wash so take with massive amounts of salt).

At this stage my guess is the ebay resellers, those looking for lots of minis per $, and impulse pledgers are bleeding away.

It should still comfortably fund, but SG need to do some serious work/cleanup/clarification on their front page!

I know Scale check out this thread so does anybody have any constructive suggestions for how they could improve the ks page?

It maybe worthwhile to cancel and restart with all the information and pledge information updated ... say in two week or so. That would give them time to breathe, take a good hard look at what the issues where, relaunch with a crisp and clear english translation. Thoughts?

That maybe the difference between barely funding and knocking it out of the park.