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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/06 03:33:09
Subject: Fallen Frontiers Kickstarter
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Fixture of Dakka
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You'd think Boxing Day would be the best launch date, with Chrimbo cash burning holes in gamers' pockets...
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"The Omnissiah is my Moderati" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/06 13:38:52
Subject: Fallen Frontiers Kickstarter
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[DCM]
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plastictrees wrote:Kingdom Death did fine at this time, as did Imbrian Arts (given its scale).
It's not going to work for everyone obviously but I don't think it a death sentence.
Kingdom Death ended on January 7, 2013 - getting an end date on the other side of Christmas, and maybe an extra paycheck or two, certainly helped.
This one is going to start on November 14 and then end on December 15 (30 day campaign?) - a week *before* Christmas...
Not sexy!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/06 19:55:39
Subject: Re:Fallen Frontiers Kickstarter
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Executing Exarch
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From FB:
Part 1/3 – Scale
During the last kickstarter there was much confusion regarding the scale of our miniatures, and this time around we want to be crystal clear: the scale of our miniatures is 35mm to the eyes. This means that a 1,80m tall human in a standing pose is 38mm tall from head to sole, which is also known as 1:48 scale (American O scale).
Using this scale allows us to do many things. It allows us to maintain realistic proportions for our miniatures without making them so small that you can’t paint them with ease, or having to bloat the head and hands resulting in cartoonish proportions. It also makes miniatures easier to produce at higher quality and with less miscasts. Finally this scale is only slightly bigger than other manufacturers, allowing you to use all of your existing terrain and storage space with ease.
All of this together means that you get high quality, easy to paint miniatures at a compatible scale, allowing us to give you the best possible hobby experience with Fallen Frontiers.
(Note that some miniatures might be smaller or bigger depending on their pose and race.)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/06 20:16:50
Subject: Fallen Frontiers Kickstarter
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[DCM]
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Excellent!
Now they just need to clearly answer the "Material Question" right out of the gate and we'll be off and running!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/06 22:06:01
Subject: Fallen Frontiers Kickstarter
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Brutal Black Orc
The Empire State
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Alpharius wrote:Excellent!
Now they just need to clearly answer the "Material Question" right out of the gate and we'll be off and running!
Remember how well that went last time?
Q: What will the miniatures be made of?
A: Resin unless we get enough funds to make them in hard plastic. PVC is an option as well. We don't really know.
Q: How do you plan on producing that many miniatures in resin with the time scale you have listed?
A: We have a well trained crew set up to deliver the product on timely scale. Ignore the very late delivery of a much much smaller kickstarter. Producing them in PVC is another option to meet deadlines.
Q: I thought you said you will NOT be producing these in PVC?
A: We can guarantee that the miniatures will be in resin unless we get enough funds to do them in hard plastic. We absolutely will not produce them in PVC... but we might.
Repeat the material question about a dozen times to get a realistic feel to the last kickstarter.
I will be sitting on this kickstarter to the very end. Was not happy with how they handled the last kickstarter, bad time of the year for me (Xmas presents). I would be a bit more interested this "true skirmish" sized game.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 07:17:51
Subject: Fallen Frontiers Kickstarter
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Posts with Authority
I'm from the future. The future of space
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Piston Honda wrote:
Repeat the material question about a dozen times to get a realistic feel to the last kickstarter.
It really was a thing of beauty.
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Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 07:34:50
Subject: Fallen Frontiers Kickstarter
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Sneaky Lictor
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Not the materials kerfuffle again! I was so looking forward to this, but only in resin.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 12:41:56
Subject: Re:Fallen Frontiers Kickstarter
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FOW Player
HF Minis Office
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Hmm, have they made all the figures smaller now? Because that newly printed one dosn't look the same size as the painted ones in previous images from the last campaign.
You'd think they'd mention it if they changed the scale entirely surely.
Even if they haven't changed the size and 'somehow' the original images were bizarrely misleading why would you use the smallest figure you'd produced out of dozens as your scale shot. All of the Ares (which look like humans), All of the Riff and All of whatever those werewolfy ones were called are 'way' bigger than this guy.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 13:19:42
Subject: Fallen Frontiers Kickstarter
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[DCM]
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That's probably OK though, as I think Ares and the Orc looking ones are supposed to be bigger?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 13:41:06
Subject: Re:Fallen Frontiers Kickstarter
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Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?
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I think it's also due to the base sizes, the older pics have them all on their bases supplied with each figure from different manufacturers, the new pic they all seem to be on the same size base.
Still the size is too far off for me. I can see it working for some games like WWE, but they don't fit that genre, so another no there to me.
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LOL, Theo your mind is an amazing place, never change.-camkierhi 9/19/13
I cant believe theo is right.. damn. -comradepanda 9/26/13
None of the strange ideas we had about you involved your sexual orientation..........-Monkeytroll 12/10/13
I'd put you on ignore for that comment, if I could...Alpharius 2/11/14 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 14:03:35
Subject: Fallen Frontiers Kickstarter
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Krazed Killa Kan
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Also, the older pic is taken at a higher angle.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 14:11:54
Subject: Fallen Frontiers Kickstarter
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[DCM]
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This new pic makes me feel even better about this one.
My terrain will work just fine with miniatures of this size!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 14:23:22
Subject: Fallen Frontiers Kickstarter
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[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth
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They also picked a GW model with massive hair  . The figure on the far right of the second pic looks pretty good for a truescale marine, though.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 14:23:31
Subject: Fallen Frontiers Kickstarter
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FOW Player
HF Minis Office
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FF have said it was the bases when I asked them. I guess I'll have to take their word for it but the base looks the same height to me in that shot, doesn't seem to account for what must be 2 or 3 mm of difference, most bases are only 3mm high in total.
Not the greatest start imo. It 'is' however better than last time at least.
I still find it dubious using your universes version of shortarses as the 'scale' your minis are in but if they put up ruler shots of the Ares and Riff etc. then that will be considerably more upfront.
Every other faction is a number of mm taller than this guy so will be interesting to see those comparisons done in the same way.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 14:51:38
Subject: Fallen Frontiers Kickstarter
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Longtime Dakkanaut
United States of England
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Artemis Black wrote:FF have said it was the bases when I asked them. I guess I'll have to take their word for it but the base looks the same height to me in that shot, doesn't seem to account for what must be 2 or 3 mm of difference, most bases are only 3mm high in total.
Not the greatest start imo. It 'is' however better than last time at least.
I still find it dubious using your universes version of shortarses as the 'scale' your minis are in but if they put up ruler shots of the Ares and Riff etc. then that will be considerably more upfront.
Every other faction is a number of mm taller than this guy so will be interesting to see those comparisons done in the same way.
Seriously? They're not using their "universes versions of shortarses" as a basis for scale, it's clear that the human faction is the "baseline" with their Super humans and aliens being bigger than a standard human......geeze is that really so hard to comprehend?
All I'm seeing now for posts like this is malicious trolling and nit picking in order to undermine the project. If you think the minis are too big don't buy them, if you're worried about material, don't buy them, if you feel the minis won't fit into WH40K,......you got it, don't buy it! But for the love of god stop harping on about faults which aren't there.
They've clarified the scale, so take it or leave it. I hate the scaling of GW WH40K minis so I don't buy them.....it's not rocket science. The question of material is out there, so give them a chance to formulate a response, if it's not what you want then don't buy. But please have some consideration for those who want this product to succeed, and lay off the poison posts that might drive away investors based on nothing but Scales determination to not have you as their focused customer!
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/11/07 14:53:50
Man down, Man down.... |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 15:00:13
Subject: Fallen Frontiers Kickstarter
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Sniping Reverend Moira
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Delephont wrote:
All I'm seeing now for posts like this is malicious trolling and nit picking in order to undermine the project. If you think the minis are too big don't buy them, if you're worried about material... But for the love of god stop harping on about faults which aren't there.
Well, the scale issue was there before.
The material issue is STILL there.
I"m personally excited/intrigued by the relaunch, but please, lets not pretend people are making up issues.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 15:59:05
Subject: Fallen Frontiers Kickstarter
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FOW Player
HF Minis Office
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Delephont wrote: Artemis Black wrote:FF have said it was the bases when I asked them. I guess I'll have to take their word for it but the base looks the same height to me in that shot, doesn't seem to account for what must be 2 or 3 mm of difference, most bases are only 3mm high in total.
Not the greatest start imo. It 'is' however better than last time at least.
I still find it dubious using your universes version of shortarses as the 'scale' your minis are in but if they put up ruler shots of the Ares and Riff etc. then that will be considerably more upfront.
Every other faction is a number of mm taller than this guy so will be interesting to see those comparisons done in the same way.
Seriously? They're not using their "universes versions of shortarses" as a basis for scale, it's clear that the human faction is the "baseline" with their Super humans and aliens being bigger than a standard human......geeze is that really so hard to comprehend?
No, nobody finds it hard to comprehend. The thing that you seem to be unable to comprehend is that the humans in their universe 'are' the shortarses. All 3 other revealead factions are considerably taller, including the Ares who look human. This isn't a game based on humans with some larger outliers, this is game based on larger races with some humans. Hence using the humans as the scale is an odd thing to do. It's totally fine to show how large the humans are of course, in fact it's recommended as those are the minis with the most crossover appeal in general.
It's like releasing a game with 3 human factions and an ogre faction and calling it a 50mm game because the Ogres are. Somewhat confusing if 75% of the minis are 33mm tall.
As far as has been shown so far the Sayx are one of the 2 human-looking races, they are also the shortest of the 4 core races released so far. The Ares also look human and seem to be considerably taller. In fact this Tarken Stahl model is the only Sayx model they seem to have actually had printed up, when there seem to be lots of Ares and Riff models knocking about, and yet they've chosen the shortest mini they have for the only ruler shots so far and as the basis for the scale of their game. That is not the normal way to go about things regardless of how much you like their game or like big minis or whatever it is you like. As such it's worthy of comment.
Delephont wrote:All I'm seeing now for posts like this is malicious trolling and nit picking in order to undermine the project.
If that's all you're seeing then you aren't looking very hard, which doesn't seem to be my problem.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/07 15:59:40
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 16:37:26
Subject: Fallen Frontiers Kickstarter
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Krazed Killa Kan
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Scale issues are a non issue to me so long as they are in scale with each other, and are close enough for most scifi terrain.
Anyone only using GW terrain or relying too much on GW measurements probably deserves to stay with GW's own brand of madness.
Material is an issue, but I still say that not knowing the exact material is fine, so long as you lay out ahead of time that they'll use X material if they hit Y level of funding, make it stretch goals even. That's something they haven't done yet.
However, many miniature games already on the market will switch materials on a per miniature basis. And with the larger size of these models, materials thought to be poor for miniatures might work out okay.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 16:49:59
Subject: Fallen Frontiers Kickstarter
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FOW Player
HF Minis Office
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Vertrucio wrote:Scale issues are a non issue to me so long as they are in scale with each other, and are close enough for most scifi terrain.
That second part was of great concern during the last campaign, which is why so many questions were asked. Despite some eejits elsewhere having ruptions about 'evil Artemis' or whatever I am not doing anything other than asking really basic questions that any other mini company could answer in seconds. Any problems comign from that are not the question's fault
For example we have now have a legitimate ruler shot which indicates that Tarken Stahl is 38mm tall, 35mm to the eyes. That's great, now we know how large he is.
'However', he is the shortest figure they have produced so far, which makes calling the game '35mm' more than a little odd. Doesn't mean they can't, they can call it whatever they like, but it does invite people to repeatedly point out that it's misleading, which they will and that will start arguments with the cheerleaders and drag the campaign down so, to me, it's a silly move.
Also, there are discrepancies in that. The original shot, as shown above, seems to show he is taller than that (or rather that particular 3d print was taller than that). There's also things like this professional artists page...
http://arsiesweb.com/2014/08/past-jerezs-workshop-review.html
... where he states pretty categorically that the resin casts of Tarken he received are 40mm to the eye and 43mm tall. (He's also selling a pro-painted one elsewhere and calls it 40mm).
That's just weird. And it matters for two reasons. The first is simply that it's a discrepancy, that's never good when someone is questioning what you are saying. There could quite conceivably be anumber of different sized 3D prints available to FF to make casts of, in which case every image is actually correct and the minis are all just different sizes. However if they haven't also printed out different sized versions of the other races then the second reason is that they are already larger than the painted Tarken Stahls, if this new unpainted one is shorter they will be even larger again in comparison. Which is why it's important to show those in a ruler/comparison shot too.
These are the kind of things that a KS campaign manager needs to be on top of fairly quickly. Stick a ruler in a shot with the green or blue painted Tarkens? Stick a ruler in a shot with the Ares minis or the Riff ones, and not on a photoshopped black background, just sat there on a desk. Remove and and all doubt from backers mind and make it 100% clear what people are actually pledging for. That not only leads to more pledges in general but definitely leads to a lot more long term potential as it reduced the number of people who are disappointed when product arrives.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/07 16:55:10
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 17:07:48
Subject: Fallen Frontiers Kickstarter
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Longtime Dakkanaut
United States of England
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Artemis Black wrote: Vertrucio wrote:Scale issues are a non issue to me so long as they are in scale with each other, and are close enough for most scifi terrain.
That second part was of great concern during the last campaign, which is why so many questions were asked. Despite some eejits elsewhere having ruptions about 'evil Artemis' or whatever I am not doing anything other than asking really basic questions that any other mini company could answer in seconds. Any problems comign from that are not the question's fault
For example we have now have a legitimate ruler shot which indicates that Tarken Stahl is 38mm tall, 35mm to the eyes. That's great, now we know how large he is.
'However', he is the shortest figure they have produced so far, which makes calling the game '35mm' more than a little odd. Doesn't mean they can't, they can call it whatever they like, but it does invite people to repeatedly point out that it's misleading, which they will and that will start arguments with the cheerleaders and drag the campaign down so, to me, it's a silly move.
Also, there are discrepancies in that. The original shot, as shown above, seems to show he is taller than that (or rather that particular 3d print was taller than that). There's also things like this professional artists page...
http://arsiesweb.com/2014/08/past-jerezs-workshop-review.html
... where he states pretty categorically that the resin casts of Tarken he received are 40mm to the eye and 43mm tall. (He's also selling a pro-painted one elsewhere and calls it 40mm).
That's just weird. And it matters for two reasons. The first is simply that it's a discrepancy, that's never good when someone is questioning what you are saying. There could quite conceivably be anumber of different sized 3D prints available to FF to make casts of, in which case every image is actually correct and the minis are all just different sizes. However if they haven't also printed out different sized versions of the other races then the second reason is that they are already larger than the painted Tarken Stahls, if this new unpainted one is shorter they will be even larger again in comparison. Which is why it's important to show those in a ruler/comparison shot too.
These are the kind of things that a KS campaign manager needs to be on top of fairly quickly. Stick a ruler in a shot with the green or blue painted Tarkens? Stick a ruler in a shot with the Ares minis or the Riff ones, and not on a photoshopped black background, just sat there on a desk. Remove and and all doubt from backers mind and make it 100% clear what people are actually pledging for. That not only leads to more pledges in general but definitely leads to a lot more long term potential as it reduced the number of people who are disappointed when product arrives.
And this is my point.....you've made your accusations and points, right? So now it's clear you won't be funding this project, right? So, why continue to come back and harass it? You did the same thing the first time round, I just don't understand what it is you want to achieve!
People aren't stupid, they can make their own decisions about how they spend their money, why do you think they need your "guidance" every other post? Not everyone is concerned about being able to use these miniatures for any other game outside of Fallen Frontiers, and not everyone is concerned about being able to use "common" Sci Fi terrain. So rather than pollute this thread with negative vibes, why not just walk away and leave the thread to those who wish to follow and enjoy the project?
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Man down, Man down.... |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 17:12:41
Subject: Fallen Frontiers Kickstarter
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Brutal Black Orc
The Empire State
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gohkm wrote:Not the materials kerfuffle again! I was so looking forward to this, but only in resin.
It will be in resin. They are looking into producing them in hard plastic. They don't plan on making them in PVC because they care about quality.
But they still could be produced in PVC.
You'll probably find out when it's too late.
Or maybe not.
They have decided to not decide at this point in time.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 17:29:14
Subject: Fallen Frontiers Kickstarter
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FOW Player
HF Minis Office
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Delephont wrote:
And this is my point.....you've made your accusations and points, right? So now it's clear you won't be funding this project, right? So, why continue to come back and harass it? You did the same thing the first time round, I just don't understand what it is you want to achieve!
People aren't stupid, they can make their own decisions about how they spend their money, why do you think they need your "guidance" every other post? Not everyone is concerned about being able to use these miniatures for any other game outside of Fallen Frontiers, and not everyone is concerned about being able to use "common" Sci Fi terrain. So rather than pollute this thread with negative vibes, why not just walk away and leave the thread to those who wish to follow and enjoy the project?
Because this isn't a Fallen Frontiers Supporters Round Table, it's a discussion group for minis. As both a consumer and a manufacturer various things about this kickstarter both interest and concern me, hence I will discuss them in an approproate place with other people who are also interested in the discussion.
It seems odd that your point is that because I've made mine I am no longer allowed to reply to people or venture any further discussion but I am guessing the same rules somehow won't apply to you replying to me. I mean after all you have now made your point that you don't think I should be continuing to talk about this so that's done right, no need to say it or anything like it again. Is that how it works?
I guess I should have a nose around the rest of the threads and see if this happens elsewhere i.e. people atacking anyone who questions a kickstarter that they like for whatever reason, or whether it's particularly virulent with this one. It's seemed bizarre to me since the start.
"How tall are your miniatures exactly?"
"Stop asking questions you trolling trolly troll, I don't care how tall they are, that's not important to the world, your'e just jealous of them and you probably smell of wee'
"..."
Disregarding the above, I do have a question for you. Do you not care, even the slightest bit, about any of the questions asked? I'd like to make it clear before this next part that I do not think , in any way, that Scale are out to defraud people or are just going to take people's money and run etc. I think some porkies have been told in the past and there was a lot of mishandling of information but I do think that they will produce a product and deliver it to pledgers. But let's say all of the worst things were true, they lied on purpose about the size of the minis to draw in confused punters, they didn't mention the material to make it seem like it was all hard plastic and so on. Isn't that something that you'd want to know? And isn't the only way you'd know that is people asking questions and uncovering the information? When did that become a thing you abuse people for?
Hell, Scale haven't abused me, I'm guessing they'd quite like to know the things which, through mishandling rather than malice, make them look dodgy. How else do they fix them?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/07 17:40:08
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 18:01:55
Subject: Fallen Frontiers Kickstarter
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Posts with Authority
I'm from the future. The future of space
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Delephont wrote:
And this is my point.....you've made your accusations and points, right? So now it's clear you won't be funding this project, right? So, why continue to come back and harass it? You did the same thing the first time round, I just don't understand what it is you want to achieve!
Discussion?
Also, this crazy idea of having the basic characteristics of your product clearly outlined might actually help with the new KS. Fallen Frontiers might do better this time around precisely because people just didn't give everything a pass, or express their opinion once and then fade away.
So rather than pollute this thread with negative vibes, why not just walk away and leave the thread to those who wish to follow and enjoy the project?
I suspect you'll find the source of negative vibes in the closest reflective surface.
Artemis Black wrote:
Disregarding the above, I do have a question for you. Do you not care, even the slightest bit, about any of the questions asked?
Hey Delephont, what do you think about the size of the miniatures and the material they might be made out of? Do you prefer metal or resin? Would you rather have the typical trooper in the power armour army be 50mm tall or 30mm tall or something else? Whatever your preference, do you think the company running the KS should be clear and upfront about it, or speculative and evasive about it? What's your preference?
Hell, Scale haven't abused me, I'm guessing they'd quite like to know the things which, through mishandling rather than malice, make them look dodgy. How else do they fix them?
You fix them by having everyone pretend they don't exist and then shouting down anyone who mentions them. Obviously
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Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 18:08:13
Subject: Fallen Frontiers Kickstarter
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Longtime Dakkanaut
United States of England
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The problem with your posts, is that you focus on circumstantial 'evidence' to base your attacks. So, let's take a minute to think about the scale issue. FF take a photo of one of their miniatures and show it clearly with a sample set of other miniatures. Now, for any reasonable critic this would be fine.....not for you however, instead, you see it as a plot to somehow mislead?!?!
And your reasoning, they've supposedly taken their smallest miniatures and based their game scaling off of that?!?!
Now, let's think about this. In their comparison sample photo, they had a Space Marine and a female Elf....yet, I don't see you complaining about that? Is a Space Marine the baseline for GW? I mean, there are hundreds of miniatures in the GW range that are bigger, an Orgyn perhaps? Maybe a deamon prince? Or what about an Eldar Avatar?....hell, what about a terminator? The list goes on. So you expect FF (in order to satisfy the scale issues) to do what? Take each miniature in their range and produce a side by side photo of it's nearest equivalent in the GW range? Would you have complained if they put their biggest miniature alongside a Ratlin Sniper or a Grot? Would that have made more sense to you?
You know as well as I, that FF have placed their baseline figure alongside the baseline figures of other companies, end of. Who cares if 90% of their range is bigger than the baseline? If it fits in with their setting and fluff, then so be it, it doesn't change the baseline.
I wouldn't mind, FF have NEVER said their intention is to make proxy miniatures for any other game! So all of this debate is based on nothing but your insistence that scale compatibility should be a project objective?!?!
If you want to mention material, then fine, but until we know one way or another we have nothing to debate. Did you get a say in what material GW use for their products? Fine cast wasn't the product of a democratic vote was it? And regardless of the material, if the miniatures come out looking like the design then what's the issue? Of course we won't know that until the kick starter has ended and their product is delivered.
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Man down, Man down.... |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 18:19:45
Subject: Re:Fallen Frontiers Kickstarter
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Basecoated Black
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Regarding races and size this is what they say about the ares: they are aliens genetically engineered to look like super humans.
I also really don't see what the issue with scale is. They clearly state that they are 1:48 scale and 35 mm to the eyes of a normal human. Now they show a scale shot with a ruler Artemis is still complaining. A number of companies are using a larger scale too, look at the Wild West exodus figure that is the same size. Malifaux models, Spartan's Dystopian Legions, and even War machine are similar in size and larger scale. I don't see you in those other threads discussing scale issues with those ranges. In looking at your post count Artemis it seems like the only thread you have ever posted in is this one (aside from a few posts about war prime). It comes across as you have a desire to see this project fail.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 18:21:09
Subject: Fallen Frontiers Kickstarter
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Posts with Authority
I'm from the future. The future of space
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Delephont wrote:The problem with your posts, is that you focus on circumstantial 'evidence' to base your attacks. Could you entertain the possibility, if only for a moment, that the things he is saying are not attacks? Just for a moment? You know as well as I, that FF have placed their baseline figure alongside the baseline figures of other companies, end of. Who cares if 90% of their range is bigger than the baseline? If it fits in with their setting and fluff, then so be it, it doesn't change the baseline. This is true, but only for all definitions of baseline that are meaningless.  I have this weird idea that if 90% of a figure range is larger than something you call baseline you might either have a useless definition of baseline or made an error in terms of which miniature is a baseline for the figure range. Strange, I know. I wouldn't mind, FF have NEVER said their intention is to make proxy miniatures for any other game! So all of this debate is based on nothing but your insistence that scale compatibility should be a project objective?!?! How about actually letting the backers know exactly how big the miniatures they are pledging for actually are? Isn't that a legitimate idea? Or is that an attack? Automatically Appended Next Post: spartan059 wrote: It comes across as you have a desire to see this project fail.
Sounds to me like an opportunity for the project to succeed. If you can take on board the feedback of your most vocal critic and have everything squared away in advance, surely that's better for everyone who decides to pledge right? Surely clear information about scale and material is better than fuzzy information?
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/11/07 18:24:02
Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 18:34:35
Subject: Fallen Frontiers Kickstarter
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Krazed Killa Kan
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Atremis, you are incessantly posting full page posts on it though.
And again, you're not covering any new ground. The questions were already asked, the questions were then answered, especially now that they've given us a lineup.
Which is why people are tired when you've jumped to find something new to complain about.
I said in my post, scale doesn't matter so long as they're in scale with each other. So it still doesn't matter if the other guys are even larger. You keep repeating as though we're idiots that can't understand that. We do understand that, do you understand that we already know?
It will still work with most generic terrain, and if the game is good people will find terrain for it.
There's also a place in the market for something bigger.
Make your post succinct. Keep pressing on the material issue, sure, because they haven't issued a clearer statement on that. But this scale thing you keep going back to is done.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/11/07 18:36:41
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 19:19:04
Subject: Fallen Frontiers Kickstarter
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Infiltrating Broodlord
Lake County, Illinois
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Artemis manufactures miniatures, and all of his posts on Dakka have been attacking or casting aspersions on other miniatures manufacturers. If he really just want to participate in discussion, it's a bit odd that he has never had anything positive to say about anything. It's obvious he's just here to attack and troll, and I think it would be better for everyone and the conversation in general if we all just ignored his rants.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 19:21:09
Subject: Fallen Frontiers Kickstarter
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FOW Player
HF Minis Office
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Delephont wrote:The problem with your posts, is that you focus on circumstantial 'evidence' to base your attacks. So, let's take a minute to think about the scale issue. FF take a photo of one of their miniatures and show it clearly with a sample set of other miniatures. Now, for any reasonable critic this would be fine.....not for you however, instead, you see it as a plot to somehow mislead?!?!
See, this would be why I post longer posts instead of short ones. I do so in an attempt to be clear and yet despite that you still decide to make up your own version of what I said. Nobody mentioned a 'plot to mislead' except you. I'm wondering, out loud, why certain things don't match up. There may be legitimate answers to that, that's how questions work.
(You also didn't list any circumstantial evidence despite mentioning it)
Delephont wrote:And your reasoning, they've supposedly taken their smallest miniatures and based their game scaling off of that?!?!
Well that wasn't my reasoning for anything, it's just a random fact. They have taken their smallest miniature and based their game scale off it?
Delephont wrote:Now, let's think about this. In their comparison sample photo, they had a Space Marine and a female Elf....yet, I don't see you complaining about that? Is a Space Marine the baseline for GW? I mean, there are hundreds of miniatures in the GW range that are bigger, an Orgyn perhaps? Maybe a deamon prince? Or what about an Eldar Avatar?....hell, what about a terminator? The list goes on. So you expect FF (in order to satisfy the scale issues) to do what? Take each miniature in their range and produce a side by side photo of it's nearest equivalent in the GW range? Would you have complained if they put their biggest miniature alongside a Ratlin Sniper or a Grot? Would that have made more sense to you?
I'll answer the question at the end and ignore the rest as I'm not entirely certain what you're on about. Nothing would have made 'more' sense to me. What they did was perfectly fine and dandy as a scale shot. What I said in response was twofold a) how come it doesn't match the previous scale shot and b) can we have more please.
Delephont wrote:You know as well as I, that FF have placed their baseline figure alongside the baseline figures of other companies, end of. Who cares if 90% of their range is bigger than the baseline? If it fits in with their setting and fluff, then so be it, it doesn't change the baseline.
As someone else replied, that is an odd use of a 'baseline'. Generally you'd want the scale your minsi are in to be clear to anyone who gives just a cursory glance. So you'd use a number that corresponded to the majority of your game/line. That's fairly standad practice. Saying that, it's still not the point. The point was always 'Please make it clear what actual size your miniatures are'. Note that there's a plural in there, it's miniatures not 'Please make ti clear what the size of your smallest mininaure is'.
Delephont wrote:I wouldn't mind, FF have NEVER said their intention is to make proxy miniatures for any other game! So all of this debate is based on nothing but your insistence that scale compatibility should be a project objective?!?!
You must have me confused with someone else. I don't give a flying monkeys tump if their product is compatible with other companies. They probably should but I have no idea why I would. Automatically Appended Next Post: Vertrucio wrote:Atremis, you are incessantly posting full page posts on it though.
And again, you're not covering any new ground. The questions were already asked, the questions were then answered, especially now that they've given us a lineup.
Which is why people are tired when you've jumped to find something new to complain about.
I said in my post, scale doesn't matter so long as they're in scale with each other. So it still doesn't matter if the other guys are even larger. You keep repeating as though we're idiots that can't understand that. We do understand that, do you understand that we already know?
It will still work with most generic terrain, and if the game is good people will find terrain for it.
There's also a place in the market for something bigger.
Make your post succinct. Keep pressing on the material issue, sure, because they haven't issued a clearer statement on that. But this scale thing you keep going back to is done.
As far as I'm aware the material thing 'was' resolved last Kickstarter, they said it was all going to be in high quality resin, cast in house. Unless they change it for this kickstarter, I thought that was the one issue they answered succinctly by the end.
As for Scale by problem with it doesn't seem to be what you think it is. I already knew what size their minis were in comparison to other minis, they posted a comparison shot. My problem last kickstarter was that it was hidden away and that '35mm' didn't accurately represent what they were selling and would lead to people buying them thinking thy would match other companies minis, like my own, which actually 'are' in that size range (Our are a bit smaller but may have matched if these were 35mm).
Other than a bit of eyebrow raising that the new photos don't seem to match the old photos that issue, to me, remains the same. They are sticking with '35mm' as a descriptor for their game when their smallest mini shown so far is 35mm to the eyes and 38mm tall. That is confusing and could potentially affect me as a retailer as well as just a consumer.
I agree with you that there could be a place for a larger scale game, it seems though that FF don't and keep shying away from 'being' a larger scale game. Automatically Appended Next Post: Albino Squirrel wrote:Artemis manufactures miniatures, and all of his posts on Dakka have been attacking or casting aspersions on other miniatures manufacturers. If he really just want to participate in discussion, it's a bit odd that he has never had anything positive to say about anything. It's obvious he's just here to attack and troll, and I think it would be better for everyone and the conversation in general if we all just ignored his rants.
I don't know which of those lil green men is supposed to represent an eye roll so we'll all have to just pretend I inserted one here.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/11/07 19:29:23
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 19:37:43
Subject: Fallen Frontiers Kickstarter
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Longtime Dakkanaut
United States of England
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#sigh#
So if you're not worried about compatibility with other games then the whole scale issue is moot. It's as big as it is, done.
However, it's clear that no matter what anyone says you're here to push your agenda. Just be clear, your posts are doing more damage to your integrity than it does to Scale Miniatures.
A final point. If you sincerely wanted to help Scale Miniatures, don't you think it would be more useful (practically and professionally, considering your own industry involvement) to approach them directly? How does posting your innocent concerns (repeatedly) on a public forum help to clear up the issues you're so vocal about? The only thing your posts will do is ferment distrust for Scale Miniatures....and you don't want that do you? Especially as they clearly aren't here to (defend) respond to your questions.
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Man down, Man down.... |
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