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Simple. can models that can jink actually jink hits from the doom scythes' death ray as it does not target particular models?

Yup you declare jink at start of shooting and any hit against it you get to jink againat unless it ignores cover

Doesn't it mention the model must be targeted?

If the model has already jinked due to another attack, they would get jink saves. If the death ray is the first thing to hit them, they would have no opportunity to activate the Jink and thus would not get saves.

So it seems a scattered blasts and templates would not allow jink either. (only if that template had targeted another unit 1st)

It seems pretty ridiculous to suggest you can't jink from a scattered blast.

God In Action wrote:
It seems pretty ridiculous to suggest you can't jink from a scattered blast.

You can't, because the unit hit by it wasn't targeted by it. You declare Jink when you're targeted (i.e. when the player puts the blast marker over it and prepares to roll the scatter dice). When the scatter is rolled, the time for targeting is already past.
It's similar to marker lights - you must declare jink before the player opts to spend markerlights, because you spend them right before rolling to hit, when the unit was already declared as a target by the player.

You can, of course, house rule to be able to use jink against scattered blasts.

I think this only works if you don't fire the Tesla Destructor on the Doomscythe in the same turn at a unit with the Jink USR. If the TD is fired, you have to target a unit that will also hit by the death ray. While you resolve the shooting by each weapon separately, you still have to declare your targets with all weapons first before resolving the shots.

So you would determine the units hit (without resolving the wounds) with the death ray, and then you have to declare your target for the TD from among those units previously hit by the death ray. That target can now choose to jink and would get the save against both weapons. Any Arc hits however would not be able to be jinked since they don't target any specific unit. Of course, you could just opt to not shoot the TD at a unit that has the jink USR.

Strange that so many busted rules are coming out of the Necron codex, a codex that was allegedly written with 6th edition in mind (but had the largest 6th edition FAQ of them all!). 3++ Chariots that retain IC, Non-jinkable hits by the truckload, 2+ Deny The Witch bubbles, the long EL vs SA debate, and basic weapons that now completely destroy most fortifications in a turn or two (thanks for that one GW). They truly can't redo this codex fast enough!

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Strange that so many busted rules are coming out of the Necron codex, a codex that was allegedly written with 6th edition in mind (but had the largest 6th edition FAQ of them all!). 3++ Chariots that retain IC, Non-jinkable hits by the truckload, 2+ Deny The Witch bubbles, the long EL vs SA debate, and basic weapons that now completely destroy most fortifications in a turn or two (thanks for that one GW). They truly can't redo this codex fast enough!

The power of Matt Ward ever-compels you!
Which weapon destroys forts in such manner? Gauss?

 Vector Strike wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Strange that so many busted rules are coming out of the Necron codex, a codex that was allegedly written with 6th edition in mind (but had the largest 6th edition FAQ of them all!). 3++ Chariots that retain IC, Non-jinkable hits by the truckload, 2+ Deny The Witch bubbles, the long EL vs SA debate, and basic weapons that now completely destroy most fortifications in a turn or two (thanks for that one GW). They truly can't redo this codex fast enough!

The power of Matt Ward ever-compels you!
Which weapon destroys forts in such manner? Gauss?

Okay, that really made me laugh!

Yes, gauss now makes a mockery of even the mightiest of fortifications now since the can be hulled to death and have a pitifully small number of hull points.

buildings have hull points now, so a 20 strong unit of warriors glance even armor 14 buildings apart with one volley of rapid fire.


And yet, my grav weaponry still does not effect buildings as per the Graviton rules.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
I think this only works if you don't fire the Tesla Destructor on the Doomscythe in the same turn at a unit with the Jink USR. If the TD is fired, you have to target a unit that will also hit by the death ray. While you resolve the shooting by each weapon separately, you still have to declare your targets with all weapons first before resolving the shots.

So you would determine the units hit (without resolving the wounds) with the death ray, and then you have to declare your target for the TD from among those units previously hit by the death ray. That target can now choose to jink and would get the save against both weapons. Any Arc hits however would not be able to be jinked since they don't target any specific unit. Of course, you could just opt to not shoot the TD at a unit that has the jink USR.

Strange that so many busted rules are coming out of the Necron codex, a codex that was allegedly written with 6th edition in mind (but had the largest 6th edition FAQ of them all!). 3++ Chariots that retain IC, Non-jinkable hits by the truckload, 2+ Deny The Witch bubbles, the long EL vs SA debate, and basic weapons that now completely destroy most fortifications in a turn or two (thanks for that one GW). They truly can't redo this codex fast enough!

Except that the new shooting rules don't work this way anymore- in 7th you now resolve each weapon from declaring to wound allocatiob/model removal before moving on to the next gun in your arsenal.

yes you do each weapon one at a time, however if you are firing the TD, either first or second, you have still declared a target and the model may elect to jink.


Targets that have the jink special rule have to declare it before any actual rolls to hit have been made so you must declare that you are shooting at it, if any weapons in the firing unit are targeting it.

 Galorian wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
I think this only works if you don't fire the Tesla Destructor on the Doomscythe in the same turn at a unit with the Jink USR. If the TD is fired, you have to target a unit that will also hit by the death ray. While you resolve the shooting by each weapon separately, you still have to declare your targets with all weapons first before resolving the shots.

So you would determine the units hit (without resolving the wounds) with the death ray, and then you have to declare your target for the TD from among those units previously hit by the death ray. That target can now choose to jink and would get the save against both weapons. Any Arc hits however would not be able to be jinked since they don't target any specific unit. Of course, you could just opt to not shoot the TD at a unit that has the jink USR.

Strange that so many busted rules are coming out of the Necron codex, a codex that was allegedly written with 6th edition in mind (but had the largest 6th edition FAQ of them all!). 3++ Chariots that retain IC, Non-jinkable hits by the truckload, 2+ Deny The Witch bubbles, the long EL vs SA debate, and basic weapons that now completely destroy most fortifications in a turn or two (thanks for that one GW). They truly can't redo this codex fast enough!

Except that the new shooting rules don't work this way anymore- in 7th you now resolve each weapon from declaring to wound allocatiob/model removal before moving on to the next gun in your arsenal.

You still have to declare targets with all weapons in the unit before you resolve them. Still, easy solution is to forego firing the TDs at a unit with jink.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 Galorian wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
I think this only works if you don't fire the Tesla Destructor on the Doomscythe in the same turn at a unit with the Jink USR. If the TD is fired, you have to target a unit that will also hit by the death ray. While you resolve the shooting by each weapon separately, you still have to declare your targets with all weapons first before resolving the shots.

So you would determine the units hit (without resolving the wounds) with the death ray, and then you have to declare your target for the TD from among those units previously hit by the death ray. That target can now choose to jink and would get the save against both weapons. Any Arc hits however would not be able to be jinked since they don't target any specific unit. Of course, you could just opt to not shoot the TD at a unit that has the jink USR.

Strange that so many busted rules are coming out of the Necron codex, a codex that was allegedly written with 6th edition in mind (but had the largest 6th edition FAQ of them all!). 3++ Chariots that retain IC, Non-jinkable hits by the truckload, 2+ Deny The Witch bubbles, the long EL vs SA debate, and basic weapons that now completely destroy most fortifications in a turn or two (thanks for that one GW). They truly can't redo this codex fast enough!

Except that the new shooting rules don't work this way anymore- in 7th you now resolve each weapon from declaring to wound allocatiob/model removal before moving on to the next gun in your arsenal.

You still have to declare targets with all weapons in the unit before you resolve them. Still, easy solution is to forego firing the TDs at a unit with jink.

How can you ever resolve the death ray then since the TD is obligated to shoot at a unit hit by the death ray and the death ray can't really be "targeted" at something?

You could always hit a unit next to it with the TD and then put the death ray thru it and the Jink target.

The Necrons have a 2+ deny the witch?

A lot of 40k rules and other game systems are silly. Rules systems can't be realistic or they would get bogged down. Like in 40k you kill some guys on top of bastion and instead of seeking cover in an AV 14 building they will jump off. You'd end up like starfleet battles with 1000s of pages of rules.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 Galorian wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
I think this only works if you don't fire the Tesla Destructor on the Doomscythe in the same turn at a unit with the Jink USR. If the TD is fired, you have to target a unit that will also hit by the death ray. While you resolve the shooting by each weapon separately, you still have to declare your targets with all weapons first before resolving the shots.

So you would determine the units hit (without resolving the wounds) with the death ray, and then you have to declare your target for the TD from among those units previously hit by the death ray. That target can now choose to jink and would get the save against both weapons. Any Arc hits however would not be able to be jinked since they don't target any specific unit. Of course, you could just opt to not shoot the TD at a unit that has the jink USR.

Strange that so many busted rules are coming out of the Necron codex, a codex that was allegedly written with 6th edition in mind (but had the largest 6th edition FAQ of them all!). 3++ Chariots that retain IC, Non-jinkable hits by the truckload, 2+ Deny The Witch bubbles, the long EL vs SA debate, and basic weapons that now completely destroy most fortifications in a turn or two (thanks for that one GW). They truly can't redo this codex fast enough!

Except that the new shooting rules don't work this way anymore- in 7th you now resolve each weapon from declaring to wound allocatiob/model removal before moving on to the next gun in your arsenal.

You still have to declare targets with all weapons in the unit before you resolve them. Still, easy solution is to forego firing the TDs at a unit with jink.

The DR does not target a specific unit- its rule states only that you pick one point within range, another one withing 3d6", draw a line between the two and then each unit with models under that line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models it has under the line. It then goes on to clarify that other weapons fired by the model in the same phase must target one of the units hit by the DR.

Reading the shooting phase rules again it does seem you'd have to target your shooting at another unit to deny the Jinx.

Farsight enclave has a +2 Deny the Witch as well....

 Mythra wrote:
The Necrons have a 2+ deny the witch?

If you overlap the 3" +2 DtW bubbles of two Gloom Prisms on a model powers targeting it will be denied on a 2+.

Won't be particularly cheap or easy to pull off on a large scale though...

Going back to the OP's question... the more I think about this, the more I've come to change my opinion. I think anything with Jink is allowed to make it's save against the Death Ray (unless you cleverly get around it... explained below)...

While it is true that the death ray weapon itself does not target a specific unit. The shooting phase clearly says that you must.

We are told to choose a unit to shoot with, and choose it's target before choosing which weapons to fire with. So if you wanted to shoot a squad of bikes you would have to declare them a target... which gives them an oppotunity to jink, and then you would declare you're Death Ray as the shooting weapon, which would ignore whatever your vehicles target is, in favor of picking a point on the field. If the resulting blasts goes through that bike squad, then they would get their saves if they decided to jink.

That said... this would only be the case if you choose the bike squad in the first place. Knowing this allows us to game our opponents a little bit. Since the Death Ray is allowed to ignore targeting rules for the purpose of picking a point, there is nothing requiring you to choose a point anywhere near your declared 'target'.

You must declare a target for the vehicle before it fires (and if you decide to fire your Tesla weapons they have to go at that target). If you had a second valid target in LoS (say some Tac marines) you could totally choose that as your vehicles target, denying the bikes a chance to jink. And then setting off your Death Ray in the midst of the unsuspecting biker squad. Or if you wanted to be extra sneaky, you could declare the bikes as your target, then when your opponent jinks and ensures all those grav-guns are firing snap shots next round, put your Death Ray somewhere else entirely, killing tac marines, and negating the bike shooting effectiveness for a turn.

So the answer to the question is really, yes and no. Yes you have to declare a target, potentially giving someone the opportunity to jink, but since you don't have to target the same thing with the Death Ray, you may hit things that never got the opportunity to Jink.

Dem sneaky Necrons...

Sneakcrons.

 Galorian wrote:

 Mythra wrote:
The Necrons have a 2+ deny the witch?

If you overlap the 3" +2 DtW bubbles of two Gloom Prisms on a model powers targeting it will be denied on a 2+.

Won't be particularly cheap or easy to pull off on a large scale though...

Except that you would be gaining the benefit of the same special rule twice, which you cannot do.

Fragile wrote:

 Galorian wrote:

 Mythra wrote:
The Necrons have a 2+ deny the witch?

If you overlap the 3" +2 DtW bubbles of two Gloom Prisms on a model powers targeting it will be denied on a 2+.

Won't be particularly cheap or easy to pull off on a large scale though...

Except that you would be gaining the benefit of the same special rule twice, which you cannot do.

The RAW from the FAQ:

A Canoptek Spyder with a gloom prism and all friendly units within 3" of it have a +2 bonus to their Deny the Witch rolls.

This wargear does not grant models a special rule that improves DtW rolls, it simply improves said rolls for all models in its area of effect. RAWwise if a unit is within the bubble of two Gloom Prisms then each one would apply its +2 bonus separately.

chanceafs wrote:
While it is true that the death ray weapon itself does not target a specific unit. The shooting phase clearly says that you must.

We are told to choose a unit to shoot with, and choose it's target before choosing which weapons to fire with. So if you wanted to shoot a squad of bikes you would have to declare them a target... which gives them an oppotunity to jink, and then you would declare you're Death Ray as the shooting weapon, which would ignore whatever your vehicles target is, in favor of picking a point on the field. If the resulting blasts goes through that bike squad, then they would get their saves if they decided to jink.

Actually, after re-reading the Shooting Sequence box, I think I agree with you. You do Choose a Target before you Choose a Weapon.

If Death Ray must follow this rule, (a) targeted unit would get Jink, and (b) Death Ray could not be used to fire on Invisible units, since they would also have to be targeted, and can only be shot at with snap shots.


However, RAI, I still think the design is that the Death Ray should never have to declare a target. I also think there's plenty of room in the Death Ray rule to say, "Hey I don't have to choose a target, see..."

In other words, without a clarifying FAQ, I'm of the opinion that one person's interpretation is as good as another's on this issue.