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In 6th, many rulings were based around "Start of Turn" and "Start of Movement Phase" being synonymous. This wasn't a big deal.

Now in 7th, they are distinct parts of a player turn which shines a light on Reserves.

Reserve rolls are made and units arrive during the "Start of a Turn"; however, no where does it say that said units cannot move in the movement phase (unless it's an immobalized vehicle).

So, for infantry, would this mean they can come in their normal 6" and can move another 6" during the movement phase? What about Vehicles - 12" & 12"? What about zooming flyers - 18" & 18"?

This sounds great at first thought; however, in the case of flyers, it makes it quite the challenge.

Am I interpreting the movement and reserve rules correctly? Are we looking at units, arriving from reserves, to be making their way onto the board faster?

I'm guessing it's just a error on GW:s part since they say on p 135 that you must move all units arriving from reservs before moving your other units as normal, indicating that you are in the movment phase. But it's a pretty big oversight now that they've specified the diffrence between turns and phases and could be interpreted as you say

You move all your reserves on, then you may move your other units as normal. So, step one, move on Reserves. Step two, move OTHER units as normal. There is no step 1.5 or step three allowing you to move the units that arrived from Reserves. Just because there is not a negative statement saying you cannot does not mean you can.

 don_mondo wrote:
You move all your reserves on, then you may move your other units as normal. So, step one, move on Reserves. Step two, move OTHER units as normal. There is no step 1.5 or step three allowing you to move the units that arrived from Reserves. Just because there is not a negative statement saying you cannot does not mean you can.

This is how everyone played it in 6th which is fine; however, I'm not seeing anything reads as "you can only move units that did not arrive from reserves this turn". Your comment about just because there isn't an exclusions doesn't mean there isn't one doesn't change the fact that the exclusion is missing.

If someone can point me to where it says in the rule book you cannot move units that entered via reserve that would be awesome. As is though, I can't interpret rules as written any other way.

Truth be told I want to be proven wrong here (to an extent) as it hurts flyers if they have to come in minimal distance and then have to move the minimal distance again in the movement phase.


EDIT:
Looking at the arriving from deep strike rules (via the Deep Strike USR section), it explicitly calls out being unable to move further in the movement phase other than to disembark from things like a drop pod. This would make me think that models arriving from normal reserves would be able to move in the movement phase. Flyer rules state nothing special beyond the fact that they start off in reserve still.

"other units" What part of that is unclear? We don't need to point you to where it says that units arriving from reserves cannot move. YOU need to point us to where it says they CAN move.

 don_mondo wrote:
"other units" What part of that is unclear? We don't need to point you to where it says that units arriving from reserves cannot move. YOU need to point us to where it says they CAN move.

Movement phase states that units can move and it doesn't specify any exclusions. The only restriction to the movement phase's movements can be found in the Deep Strike special rule (and immobalized vehicle condition).

As for the "other units", the sentence in the rule book reads "Note that you must first roll for all Reserves, and then move any arriving Reserves, before any other units can move." I interpret "other units" here as an identifier of units that are unable to move until after reserves are done (hence not until the movement phase). I do not see this as a disqualification of models who have arrived via reserves to not be able to move in the Movement phase.

RAW - I read this as, yes units not arriving via deep strike from reserves can still move in the movement phase. They just cannot charge nor use start of turn abilities as those are explicitly mentioned in the reserve rules.

Keep reading, there's another line about once all your reserves are on, then you can move your other units as normal. That's the line that limits what can move after your reserves arrive.

Umm. iBook/Digital version page 597 doesn't have the word "other" anywhere in the "Moving on from Reserve" or "Ongoing Reserve" sections which are the next items under the Reserve section. There's nothing between these sub-sections and the sentence I quoted in my last post.

Llama - other units are, contextually, not those they have already moved. No double moves.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Llama - other units are, contextually, not those they have already moved. No double moves.

Then why would this be explicitly called out for units arriving from deep strike? I think that's where I"m getting caught up as why would it be explicitly prohibited in that scenario if it would be universally prohibited when arriving and not mentioned when they mention the charging restriction.

In the section on bringing your reserves onto the table. Pick a unit, move it on, pick another move it on until all reserved units haved moved onto the table. After that it says, "The player may then proceed to move his other units as normal."

I see what you are getting at, they even removed the line from 6th ed Reserves rule that specifically prohibited moving any further or any more or whatever in the movement phase. But really, look at how they describe it, MOVE the model from the table edge, and so on. It's clear to me that arriving from Reserves is the units move.

It is odd and I can see it going either way if it ever gets FAQed - and, being a Necron player, I somewhat don't want to double move my flyers.

The fact that everything for reserves happens prior to the movement phase now, and deep strike is the only exclusion, is where i'm getting hung up.

Hopefully this will be in the BRB FAQ as soon as they ever get around to releasing it.

I actually doubt that it will be FAQed unless they get flooded with questions on it, as they probably don't think there's any question on it. Once (at one of the US Games Days) had Jervis tell me that there was no need to FAQ something that was perfectly clear. Course, I responded that if there are long discussions on it then it's not perfectly clear...

A lot of the long discussions are more about people and being pedantic Don, you are correct in your interpretation. The double move crowd are off. Too much trying to game the system, and not enough just playing the game.

My thoughts aren't so much about gaming the system other than understanding some of the changes that come with the explicitly separation of Start of Turn and Start of Movement phase along with a number of reserver-related FAQs no longer being around.

This latter point about the FAQs is the underlying reason as the necron FAQ that stated we can come in from reserves using the Veil of Darkness or Ghostwalk mantle are no longer present. These state can be activated in the movement phase instead of moving normally. So if units arriving from reserves cannot move in the movement phase, RAW would say they cannot be able to use the Ghostwalk mantle nor Veil of Darkness on that turn either since they arrive from reserves prior to the movement phase. However, I cannot find anything other than deep strike saying units arriving from reserves cannot move in the movement phase.

Yet you still have a rule stating the other units may now move. If you are including the models just arrived from reserves in your "other" models, what are the remainder? Where have they gone to?

Contextually there is no support for claiming that moving "other" models means you can move, again, the models that just moved on from reserve

Lungpickle,
These are new Rules and as such questions that would seem 'that ******** guy' territory are vital to finding out where the broken Rules lie so we can avoid them in the future.
And so I can laugh at them, as laughing at Game Workshop seems one of the few Joys I have in this world.

The last paragraph on page 135 under 'Arriving from reserve' is pretty clear... When Reserves arrive, pick one of your arriving units and deploy it, moving it onto the table as described below. Then pick another arriving unit and deploy it, and so on until all arriving units are on the table. The player can then proceed to move his OTHER units as normal..." I.e. you roll for all your reserves... then move them onto the board one at a time... then move everything else, no mention of moving anything twice, thus no permission to do so.

Also note: the only thing you are told to do "at the start of your turn" is to make reserve rolls. Thus the reserves that arrive are doing so during the movement phase, it just mandates that those moves happen before any others.

The specific prohibition from moving further is to make sure people don't try to deep strike a unit then take their 6" (or 12") movement, because the unit was placed on the table instead of 'moving' there. Pretty much a quick disclaimer to avoid TFG type players.

Like I said before, this is more of something that caught me when reviewing the rules with regards to the clarifications of "Start of Turn" and missing FAQs. It got more complicated when Deep Striking units arrive and explicitly states they cannot move in the movement phase - meaning they are moved onto the board during start of the turn and not during the movement phase. No where in the Reserve rules does it state moving on from reserves happens in the movement phase and not "Start of turn". Also "other units" could possibly be other "start of turn" movements as, again, the reserve section never states that anything happens other than at the "start of a turn" - no explicit mention of the movement phase.

I sent it into the FAQ email address regardless - hoping it'll be clarified. Not trying to be a WAAC player and rule lawyer the nuances of the rulebook; just seeing a critical lapse when takiing the rules as written and not HIWPI. If there's a free movement, that's a pain for flyers and also has implications for other unit types as well. With regards to the missing Necron FAQs, adding "units that enter from reserves cannot move further in the Movement phase" pretty much prevents the Veil of Darkness or Ghostwalk mantle to be used from reserves and completely breaks that as a tactical option.

While I know i'm in the super-minority on this thread (understandably so I admit), I have yet to see a RAW-cited reply that states moving units onto the board from reserves happens in the movement phase and not at Start of Turn. Furthermore, explaining why Deep Striking moving onto the board at the start of turn does not set precedence for other units moving onto the board from outflank or normal reserve. Stating that "only rolling happens at start of turn" is something I disagree since Arriving from reserves, which is determined by the roll, it states you pick up the arriving unit and deploy it, moving it onto the table as described below (moving on from reserves section). An earlier paragraph also states (concerning turn 4 auto arrival) "if the roll is less than 3 [on turn 3], it remains in Reserve and automatically arrives at the start of your fourth turn". Based on these two sentences "arrives at the beginning of the fourth turn" and when a reserve unit arrives, deploy it by moving it onto the table as described in the next section, I don't see how moving units onto the board from reserve happens in the Movement phase and not Start of Turn.

 Unholyllama wrote:
It got more complicated when Deep Striking units arrive and explicitly states they cannot move in the movement phase

No, it states that units arriving by deep strike may not move "further" in the movement phase in which they arrive.

So from that we can posit that while you may roll for reserves at the start of the turn, they enter play during the movement phase, and that after arriving by deep strike, may not move further.

ItsPug wrote:

 Unholyllama wrote:
It got more complicated when Deep Striking units arrive and explicitly states they cannot move in the movement phase

No, it states that units arriving by deep strike may not move "further" in the movement phase in which they arrive.

So from that we can posit that while you may roll for reserves at the start of the turn, they enter play during the movement phase, and that after arriving by deep strike, may not move further.

Where does it explicitly state that moving on from reserves takes place in the movement phase and not immediately after determining if a unit is arriving? I'm not seeing the phase change as the rules are written.

 Unholyllama wrote:

ItsPug wrote:

 Unholyllama wrote:
It got more complicated when Deep Striking units arrive and explicitly states they cannot move in the movement phase

No, it states that units arriving by deep strike may not move "further" in the movement phase in which they arrive.

So from that we can posit that while you may roll for reserves at the start of the turn, they enter play during the movement phase, and that after arriving by deep strike, may not move further.

Where does it explicitly state that moving on from reserves takes place in the movement phase and not immediately after determining if a unit is arriving? I'm not seeing the phase change as the rules are written.

Page 135 of the rule book. You make all rolls first, then move your units on. Then you move "his other units as normal"

That's just it though, Fragile - it doesn't explicitly state you're moving on from reserves in the Movement phase. Nothing about reserves states anything other than things happening at the "Start of Turn".

And you do not have permission to move units that have already moved.

"When Reserves arrive, pick one of your arriving units and deploy it, moving it onto the table as described below." (BRB Reserves section, arriving from reserve subsection).

When you deploy your reserves that have arrived you move them onto the table.

and the movement phase section tells us "In your turn, you can move any of your units – all of them if you wish – up to their maximum movement distance." once you move your reserves on and go 6 inches, that unit has then moved their maximum movement distance.

It really doesnt need to, it is implicit in your movement on from reserves. You have no other way to determine how far your unit can go. You also only have permission to move your unit once per Turn. So even if moving on from reserves is a separate phase, you still cannot move them in the movement.

By your argument Fragile - RAW is that it doesn't say units move onto the board from reserves explicitly in the Movement phase. As for permission to move units once per turn is actually incorrect given that Charging and Running is a form of movement.

 DeathReaper wrote:
And you do not have permission to move units that have already moved.

"When Reserves arrive, pick one of your arriving units and deploy it, moving it onto the table as described below." (BRB Reserves section, arriving from reserve subsection).

When you deploy your reserves that have arrived you move them onto the table.

and the movement phase section tells us "In your turn, you can move any of your units – all of them if you wish – up to their maximum movement distance." once you move your reserves on and go 6 inches, that unit has then moved their maximum movement distance.

That is a point I can concede to. While I still have some concerns around timing and the Necron FAQ (outside of this scope), the concerns associated with flyers, double movement, and what not is addressed.

Thanks DeathReaper

Actually Running is Running and Charging is Charging in context of the rules. DR cited the Turn part.

 Unholyllama wrote:
That's just it though, Fragile - it doesn't explicitly state you're moving on from reserves in the Movement phase. Nothing about reserves states anything other than things happening at the "Start of Turn".

It states the rolls happen at 'start of turn' it doesn't say when the moving from reserves happens. Since it doesn't specify 'start of turn' for that movement, the movement would default to when movement happens, the Movement phase. You need explicit permission for any movement to happen outside of that phase. You do not need an explicit reminder to do movement during the part of the turn that is meant for it.