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Why is there so much anger, and needless/false complaints about this new edition? I understand the criticism and unhappiness about some things need to be discussed, but it seems more to me people are hating for the fact of hating. Let's try to look at from a way of how to handle that which we think is broken or overpowered.

what tournaments have been played with the new rules? what GT's? What standing as a player do these complainers really have?
Honestly, I have witnessed first hand people bashing this new edition without even playing a game at it, people casting judgement on whats broken and whats over powered despite the fact they are terrible players and terrible strategist anyway.

Let's truly look at the summoning daemons list or 50 charge seer council as that seems to be thing everyone is worried about.

First off the Seer council casting spell after spell is no different than the last edition... Accept this time you have a chance to slow or stop the casting. Simply hold your dice for when they throw out the +1 save or reroll save. If you only have 3 dispel dice and can't make it, who cares ...it is no different than before at that point. After Las Vegas the Seer council really got hard looks and frankly, its a powerful list but not everyone who plays it wins GT's or wins with it. I know the internet says eldar win X times, and daemons win X times. But despite popular belief not every tournament post their results, or the list that were played.
A Big thing that backs up the Seer Council is the wave serpent spam that comes along with and yes granted its harder now to hurt vehicles. At least the Serpents are not getting 4+ jink saves and firing all weapons at full BS any longer. Also Invisibility spell is better for opposing army, as it is a nice slap in the face to the serpents shield shots.

Next lets look at the Daemon summoning factory. I heard a report and rumor about a game that started at 1850 and "By turn 3 the daemon player had 5200 more points on the board"... Bull Crap.... unless the guy was playing against himself and cheating at the same time, Impossible. I see the list of 8 heralds of Tzeetch and 6 units of 11 horrors. But at the end of the day they need to roll the spell to summon daemons. So for every 6 untis of horrors 1 will have possession. Heralds have a little better than 50% since they can reroll doubles and be lvl 3. That being said if someone brings this list, they are not playing the game they are sitting back and dragon ball Z'ing powering up. While you are jumping around, claiming objectives and winning the game. And sure they will summon a blood thirster or even 2 perhaps. Don't fret, while they are scary simply turn your shots on the grounded Blood thirster since he just magically appeared NOT flying. Open fire on the un engaged blood thrister because he couldn't charge... It has no gifts and a 3+ save, maybe a 4+ cover if it lands in ruins.
And just like before, save your dispel dice for the one spell you don't want to see. For me its the +1 to invul from demonology, or the default spell. The summoning of a new unit of plague bearers or seekers is far more dangerous than a GDP. Save those dice for the spell you know they really need to get off. If your opponent see's you have 5 dispel dice he will throw more dice into a spell, this increases the chance of a miscast also....

Are both these list good, probably, will they win, sure... But they will also lose and not over powered. I have played a few Deamon summoning list to try out this daemon factory. I played a against good players and we took the time to talk out every turn and every phase. Honestly I was not impressed. My Daemons list from 6th does not change a single thing with 7th, I will not spend points differently, and will not roll on different tables of magic.

I will not sit here and go through all the list or ways to beat these guys. Only add a few things that jump to mind from popular armies.

By not having to have 50% of your units on the board, this makes Deathwing assault and drop pods really good. 30 plasma gun shots at a Seer council that didnt have a turn yet really shuts down their magic before it even starts.
Every Army has a counter and way to deal. Raven guard or White Scars army really hurt the daemon summoning army as they are parked on their objectives by turn 2 while you're still summoning Blood thirsters. And in the end a Seer Council should really only kill 1 unit a turn, and thats not starting till second turn. Sure they have more army around them, but most eggs are in the Seer Council and the rest is easy to deal. A template army like IG should have a field day with a heavy IC army like the 8 heralds of Tzeetch.

My advice is stop reading all these outlandish rumors and silliness people are writing on the magic box we call the internet. Things are not so bad, despite popular belief GW does not hate you and cares about its customers. The statement has been said many times "GW said they are first a modeling company to sell models"... Well i know this may seem shocking, but if Gw does not write good rules then people will not buy their expensive plastic models....

The book was out for 2 days before all this , "cap warp charges", "Nerf demonology", "Tyranids got the shaft"... Play the game and see for yourself, if you get schooled try to figure out what you can do different. Perhaps ask more experienced players what they would of done differently, and simply remember to Play for the fun of the game. In the end dont complain needlessly and then write inaccurate articles because you didnt or cant find a way to win or have fun.

And on the Tyranids thing since i mentioned it. You have one of the only MC's that can throw out more than 1 str 10, hand to hand attack a turn. The new grounding rules pretty much means dakka flyrants will never go down. In most case's they need a 6 to hit, a 5 or 6 to wound, then you have to roll a 1 or a 2, and if all that happens you have to roll another 1 or 2 before you are grounded. You have great bubble effects, fearless, shrouded to name a few. Tyranids got better IMO in 7th.

Things are not so bad. Have fun.

Dakka really, really needs to have a complaint thread sticky. Or at least, just a continually-running complaint thread. That way instead of it cluttering up 40k general, there would be one convenient place to sweep it all into. So many of these topics are so repetitive or are similar enough to each other to warrant it.

A year ago, I proposed the idea of making a GW complaint forum which I still think is a really good idea. There is more volume of new threads and posts on just this one class of topic than there are on several other whole dakka forums combined.

Tsilber wrote:

Why is there so much crying about this new edition?

I didn't get past this.

People aren't crying.

People are, however, having legitimate criticisms about the game and the company that owns it.

Like it or not, that's the situation. Having a different opinion is fine, but do so in a manner that doesn't automatically categorize people into crying.

 Ailaros wrote:
Dakka really, really needs to have a complaint thread sticky. Or at least, just a continually-running complaint thread. That way instead of it cluttering up 40k general, there would be one convenient place to sweep it all into. So many of these topics are so repetitive or are similar enough to each other to warrant it.

A year ago, I proposed the idea of making a GW complaint forum which I still think is a really good idea. There is more volume of new threads and posts on just this one class of topic than there are on several other whole dakka forums combined.

Im not sure if i should thank you or wonder what your post has to do with my thread.... I wasn't complaining about GW, in fact the opposite.
Or maybe i should apologize as it seems my post about others complaining and trying to be positive about this edition has made you post a post about complaining people LOL.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blacksails wrote:

Tsilber wrote:

Why is there so much crying about this new edition?

I didn't get past this.

People aren't crying.

People are, however, having legitimate criticisms about the game and the company that owns it.

Like it or not, that's the situation. Having a different opinion is fine, but do so in a manner that doesn't automatically categorize people into crying.

Lol, truth hurts sometimes i guess.... That sentence was directed to those who are doing the former, if people are doing the latter then fear not as they have nothing to worry about and should know it does not pertain to them. But perhaps it is to general, and if thats the part of my thread that is getting the most attention, then my intention has failed. Switched accordingly and apologies.

Creating a thread to complain about the complaining is kind of annoying too tbh.

A blanket statement for some of the negative reactions to 7th: some people were expecting it to totally change the game, rather than just be a 6.5 + Psychic Phase. People that didn't like 6th probably won't like 7th because not enough changed.

Tsilber wrote:

Lol, truth hurts sometimes i guess....

Another mature response. Truth according to who? You?

It seems like you're just blanket classifying anyone with a negative opinion of this edition as 'crying', which has its own further implications, all of which are negative and immediately feel like you're belittling and dismissing anything you don't like.

That sentence was directed to those who are doing the former, if people are doing the latter then fear not as they have nothing to worry about and should know it does not pertain to them. But perhaps it is to general, and if thats the part of my thread that is getting the most attention, then my intention has failed. Switched accordingly and apologies.

Its weird you start your post with the comment I quoted above, and then apologize. Apology accepted, I guess?

You can have a discussion about the positive aspects or dispelling the perceived negative parts of this edition without opening up with 'stop crying, cry babies'.

 Truth118 wrote:
Creating a thread to complain about the complaining is kind of annoying too tbh.

A blanket statement for some of the negative reactions to 7th: some people were expecting it to totally change the game, rather than just be a 6.5 + Psychic Phase. People that didn't like 6th probably won't like 7th because not enough changed.

Oh sorry, i thought i also added some constructive feedback on how to help those who are complaining as well as people struggling or thinking daemon summoning and high warp charge was over powered and unbeatable, despite the lack of time its been out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blacksails wrote:

Tsilber wrote:

Lol, truth hurts sometimes i guess....

Another mature response. Truth according to who? You?

It seems like you're just blanket classifying anyone with a negative opinion of this edition as 'crying', which has its own further implications, all of which are negative and immediately feel like you're belittling and dismissing anything you don't like.

That sentence was directed to those who are doing the former, if people are doing the latter then fear not as they have nothing to worry about and should know it does not pertain to them. But perhaps it is to general, and if thats the part of my thread that is getting the most attention, then my intention has failed. Switched accordingly and apologies.

Its weird you start your post with the comment I quoted above, and then apologize. Apology accepted, I guess?

You can have a discussion about the positive aspects or dispelling the perceived negative parts of this edition without opening up with 'stop crying, cry babies'.

" truth hurts" was for those that are indeed just needlessly complaining for the sake of doing so.

And I know its not everyone, some are discourage and are criticizing from a point of frustration with the hopes to make it better, as you pointed out to me, so i changed my sentence. You are correct, i did not have to start the topic with such and so changed it.

Tsilber wrote:


" truth hurts" was for those that are indeed just needlessly complaining for the sake of doing so.

And I know its not everyone, some are discourage and are criticizing from a point of frustration with the hopes to make it better, as you pointed out to me, so i changed my sentence. You are correct, i did not have to start the topic with such and so changed it.

I see the change; looks better and less antagonizing.

That said, I don't see all these people complaining needlessly for the sake of doing it. I see people that are complaining, sure, but often for valid reasons. These are gamers that are frustrated with the direction of the game itself, or because of the situation with their army and any related balance issues. It can also be because of the prices. These are not just complaining for complaining's sake in my eyes. While I understand it may get irritating seeing it in a lot of threads, it doesn't change that the motivations behind it are anything but unwarranted.

On the flip side, its no better making a thread telling people its not as bad as they think it is. The focus of your thread is on summoning; an issue to be sure, but only one of many I'm sure a lot of people take issue with. The psychic phase in the first place was a negative for me, let alone what you can do with the new psychic powers.

I also take issue with you saying that GW cares about their customers. I haven't seen a single thing from them that indicates that in the slightest. If anything, they're actively working against us, and going after short term financial gains. Dropping 7th a month before their end of year report, and putting up the Gorkanauts a week before all scream about trying to pad their books for the report.

Tsilber wrote:

But at the end of the day they need to roll the spell to summon daemons. So for every 6 untis of horrors 1 will have possession.

Nope. Wrong. Primaris powers can be chosen in lieu of rolling. So, all six of those horrors can have summoning. Well, except the ones that rolled Possession.

I really enjoy the people complaining about the people complaining when they have not read the BRB.

 Blacksails wrote:

Tsilber wrote:


" truth hurts" was for those that are indeed just needlessly complaining for the sake of doing so.

And I know its not everyone, some are discourage and are criticizing from a point of frustration with the hopes to make it better, as you pointed out to me, so i changed my sentence. You are correct, i did not have to start the topic with such and so changed it.

I see the change; looks better and less antagonizing.

That said, I don't see all these people complaining needlessly for the sake of doing it. I see people that are complaining, sure, but often for valid reasons. These are gamers that are frustrated with the direction of the game itself, or because of the situation with their army and any related balance issues. It can also be because of the prices. These are not just complaining for complaining's sake in my eyes. While I understand it may get irritating seeing it in a lot of threads, it doesn't change that the motivations behind it are anything but unwarranted.

On the flip side, its no better making a thread telling people its not as bad as they think it is. The focus of your thread is on summoning; an issue to be sure, but only one of many I'm sure a lot of people take issue with. The psychic phase in the first place was a negative for me, let alone what you can do with the new psychic powers.

I also take issue with you saying that GW cares about their customers. I haven't seen a single thing from them that indicates that in the slightest. If anything, they're actively working against us, and going after short term financial gains. Dropping 7th a month before their end of year report, and putting up the Gorkanauts a week before all scream about trying to pad their books for the report.

If its truly all that bad why bother playing anymore... sorry but some people are just needlessly complaining. The same people who read untrue rumors on the internet before the book came out and had negative thoughts in their head. The same people who have not even played a game or a fair amount to test the new rules, the same people who just read all the negative complaints others have written and want to join the misery. Its comical in all honesty how inaccurate the rumors are about a book before it ever comes out, then even more comical to see how some people know if the book is going to be broken or good before ever reading or playing it. Coincidentally, the people who say "This sucks" without giving us the reason why it sucks. Their is far more often then any logical discussion going on. No tournies, No grand tournies, no experience with the new rules of the game, no practice.. but have made up their mind already and decided to share with other why this new edition, that is 7th because the book says so, is so terrible. Its actually sad, with a hint of comedy.

And GW does care, the fact they want to make money might be because they are a business, i know shocking... did they release tons of Hard cover new codex's last year because they wanted to make money? Sure some will see thats the only reason why, or they also wanted armies up to date with new rules to help competitive play. They care about you! they truly do... Go back and look at the old FAQ and see how many times they took the time to write "Refer to page X, it tells you clearly what to do" on some ridiculous question someone asked.

I know they care first hand, they are a business. If you have an issue then thats your opinion and you are entitled to it. I have had nothing but good dealings with GW since i started playing in 1995. Do i disagree or dislike some things, sure. But in the end i still buy the models and still play the game, adapting and play testing before jumping to conclusions. If it bothered me that much i would find a new hobby in all honesty.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jamesk1973 wrote:

Tsilber wrote:

But at the end of the day they need to roll the spell to summon daemons. So for every 6 untis of horrors 1 will have possession.

Nope. Wrong. Primaris powers can be chosen in lieu of rolling. So, all six of those horrors can have summoning. Well, except the ones that rolled Possession.

I really enjoy the people complaining about the people complaining when they have not read the BRB.

Way to go! who said anything about all 6 horrors not having summoning... See my sentence " 1 in 6 will have possession"... possession and summoning are not the same thing..... I am well aware you can trade in spell for primaris, but again my sentence of 1 and 6 refers to possession. You see possession is not the primaris power, you know this because it doesn't say primaris.. Also technically those who roll possession can still take summoning, as you stated then contradicted yourself.

So i guess it is I who enjoy those complaining about those complaining without reading. good try... for what its worth. Read the post before responding

but my point of this thread exactly.... Take a small part of a bigger picture. Misconstrue it, twist, be inaccurate about it and then a negative nancy at the same time, lol.

if you leave the words "enough" and "Rumors, lies and" out of this threads title you actually get what the thread is really about....

40K is a poorly designed game.

So, since it's a product, it deserves criticism for being a poor product, just like every other poor product.

/thread

Guys, there is a new edition out. If anyone expects not to see people who unreservedly love it and think it is great, then forums may not really be for you, you don't get it lol. If anyone expects not to see people who hate it completely, and think it is the worst thing ever then forums may not really be for you, you don't get it. You are DEFINITELY going to encounter A LOT of extremes of opinion on the topic, and everything in between. If you can't handle different, don't participate during the launch of a new edition.

On that note, given the phrasing of the original post, this isn't really an invite to discuss so much as it is an invite to rumble, and that being the case, time to shut it down. Thanks.