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Been researching this for a few days and have found two clashing opinions, so I figured I would come here for your opinions before calling my local GW guy.

The standard effects Boltguns.

Now is this specifically just the guns named Boltguns or the criteria of guns categorized as Boltguns.

I've browsed and talked with people and gotten mixed reviews about both, but there's no FAQ or anything official I can find short of asking a GW employee.

I would say that it affects the category of things called boltguns: bolters, bolt pistols, storm bolters, and hurricane bolters.
You might leave off storm bolters, I'm not sure. I have no idea about Heavy bolters.

Wasn't there a FAQ that answered this?

Haven't seen an FAQ on it and I have the 6th/7th edition one, I can check again.

My thinking is the category of guns themselves, so Boltguns, that is any gun that uses Bolts, but I dunno for sure

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
I would say that it affects the category of things called boltguns: bolters, bolt pistols, storm bolters, and hurricane bolters.
You might leave off storm bolters, I'm not sure. I have no idea about Heavy bolters.

Wasn't there a FAQ that answered this?

Old FAQ from 6 said it only affect Boltgun and Bolt Pistol IIRC. They removed that question and answer from the new FAQ though.

lemme double check

FAQ Dark Angel Apr 2013 wrote:Q: The Standard of Devastation states that ‘all friendly Codex: Dark Angels units within 6” of the standard treat their boltguns as Salvo 2/4 weapons’. Which boltguns does this apply to? (p66)

A: This applies to the standard boltgun (24”range, S4, AP5, Rapid Fire), twin-linked boltguns on bikes, the bolter component of combi-weapons, and hurricane bolters.

From the 6th ed FAQ:

Q: The Standard of Devastation states that ‘all friendly Codex:
Dark Angels units within 6” of the standard treat their boltguns as
Salvo 2/4 weapons’. Which boltguns does this apply to? (p66)
A: This applies to the standard boltgun (24” range, S4, AP5,
Rapid Fire), twin-linked boltguns on bikes, the bolter
component of combi-weapons, and hurricane bolters.

Yeah it isn't in the FAQ for DA's for 7th edition and I'm not seeing an FAQ for the general BRB for 7th on black library


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Happyjew wrote:
From the 6th ed FAQ:

Q: The Standard of Devastation states that ‘all friendly Codex:
Dark Angels units within 6” of the standard treat their boltguns as
Salvo 2/4 weapons’. Which boltguns does this apply to? (p66)
A: This applies to the standard boltgun (24” range, S4, AP5,
Rapid Fire), twin-linked boltguns on bikes, the bolter
component of combi-weapons, and hurricane bolters.

This going to be reprinted in 7th or do we simply ignore it as the new rules phase out the old, or at least that's what I've been seeing on these forums. People claim that because an entry was in 6th FAQ but not in 7th it no longer applies

Generally when something refers to the collective group of weapons, it will say something like "all flamer weapons as defined in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook".

 Happyjew wrote:
Generally when something refers to the collective group of weapons, it will say something like "all flamer weapons as defined in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook".

Ahh, this helps a lot actually


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 besbin wrote:

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
I would say that it affects the category of things called boltguns: bolters, bolt pistols, storm bolters, and hurricane bolters.
You might leave off storm bolters, I'm not sure. I have no idea about Heavy bolters.

Wasn't there a FAQ that answered this?

Old FAQ from 6 said it only affect Boltgun and Bolt Pistol IIRC. They removed that question and answer from the new FAQ though.

Not in 7th FAQ, at least not under DA one, lookin at it right now

Boltgun and bolter are used interchangably in the rules.

Boltgun is also a class of weapon.

Standard of devestation applies only to bolters/boltguns and weapons composed of said guns.

 Leth wrote:
Boltgun and bolter are used interchangably in the rules.

Boltgun is also a class of weapon.

Standard of devestation applies only to bolters/boltguns and weapons composed of said guns.

Avenger Mega bolter!!! HOOOO. if only

Zodiark wrote:
This going to be reprinted in 7th or do we simply ignore it as the new rules phase out the old, or at least that's what I've been seeing on these forums. People claim that because an entry was in 6th FAQ but not in 7th it no longer applies

The thing to keep in mind is that FAQs are (at least 'officially') just clarifications, not changes to the rule. So this entry from the 6th ed FAQ didn't change anything. It was just a clarification as to what the rule as written in the codex meant.

That rule hasn't changed, so there is no particular reason to expect that it works any differently now that the FAQ entry is gone than it did while that entry was there.

The Standard says it affects Boltguns. All the FAQ entry did was list the various types of weapons that either are, or incorporate, boltguns in a Dark Angels army.

So yes, it will still apply. Frankly, I don't think it was ever necessary in the first place, since the wording in the standard rule is quite clear.

 insaniak wrote:

Zodiark wrote:
This going to be reprinted in 7th or do we simply ignore it as the new rules phase out the old, or at least that's what I've been seeing on these forums. People claim that because an entry was in 6th FAQ but not in 7th it no longer applies

The thing to keep in mind is that FAQs are (at least 'officially') just clarifications, not changes to the rule. So this entry from the 6th ed FAQ didn't change anything. It was just a clarification as to what the rule as written in the codex meant.

That rule hasn't changed, so there is no particular reason to expect that it works any differently now that the FAQ entry is gone than it did while that entry was there.

The Standard says it affects Boltguns. All the FAQ entry did was list the various types of weapons that either are, or incorporate, boltguns in a Dark Angels army.

So yes, it will still apply. Frankly, I don't think it was ever necessary in the first place, since the wording in the standard rule is quite clear.

Yeah the wording is clear lol, otherwise there wouldn't be so much debate all over the net about it. But an earlier poster said something about them specifically mentioning a weapon type when considering things like this otherwise it would be just the gun.

But when you say Boltguns and you have a gun called a Boltgun and a category of guns that are Boltguns, you need to make it clear which you refer too as even in BRB it describes all Boltguns as any gun that uses bolts to shoot etc, which is all of them, including Storm and Heavy Bolter.

brb pg 176 Boltguns
it has Bolt Pistols, Boltgun, Storm Bolter, Heavy Bolter, Vulcan Mega Bolter

so are all these boltguns now as they are under that sections if so ‘all friendly Codex: Dark Angels units within 6” of the standard treat their boltguns as Salvo 2/4 weapons’ it means all of them with the FAQ gone unfortuantly

Sorry not really understanding what you're saying, but yes all those are listed as Boltguns and one interpretation of the rule for the Standar of Devastation is that ALL boltguns get this effect, whereas another interpretation states the gun Boltgun.

It's been clarified though, double checked with GW people who admit it is something that needed further clarification

Zodiark wrote:
Sorry not really understanding what you're saying, but yes all those are listed as Boltguns and one interpretation of the rule for the Standar of Devastation is that ALL boltguns get this effect, whereas another interpretation states the gun Boltgun.

It's been clarified though, double checked with GW people who admit it is something that needed further clarification

haha i know its silly why did they name a entire group of weapons the same name as one of the weapons.

ooh who did you get from gw to admit it was something that needed clarifying cus I always get "There is no ambiguity in the rules" or the standard FAQ response of you may see it in the next faqs

Some generic guy working the counter that day all official like lol

haha yeh I used to be that guy lol I hope no one ever quoted me on here cus I just used to make rules up as I went to stop them bothering me... usual response of gw staff member "yeh why not" haha

 insaniak wrote:

Zodiark wrote:
This going to be reprinted in 7th or do we simply ignore it as the new rules phase out the old, or at least that's what I've been seeing on these forums. People claim that because an entry was in 6th FAQ but not in 7th it no longer applies

The thing to keep in mind is that FAQs are (at least 'officially') just clarifications, not changes to the rule. So this entry from the 6th ed FAQ didn't change anything. It was just a clarification as to what the rule as written in the codex meant.

That rule hasn't changed, so there is no particular reason to expect that it works any differently now that the FAQ entry is gone than it did while that entry was there.

The Standard says it affects Boltguns. All the FAQ entry did was list the various types of weapons that either are, or incorporate, boltguns in a Dark Angels army.

So yes, it will still apply. Frankly, I don't think it was ever necessary in the first place, since the wording in the standard rule is quite clear.

How, then, do you reconcile everyone treating PFGs the same as before the 6th ed. FAQ that limited their effect to the passengers of the vehicle? The only change in that case was its removal from the 7th ed. FAQ.

I just had this conversation with someone else yesterday. Quite simply, a boltgun is a boltgun and that's all there is to it.
The FAQ didn't change the rule, it just clarified. When something refers to a category of weapon, then it will specifically say "as defined in the BRB" or something to that effect.

The PFG did indeed get a rules change, however. The previous FAQ limited its range of influence, now it is not limited to the vehicle.

ok easyway to sum this up...

from codex spacemarines bolter drill which imp[licity allows all bolter type weaponry, it says something like allows all bolt weaponary including boolterguns pistols heavy bolters and anyother classifictation to reroll 1's to hit. EXPLICIT

banner of devastation sa\ys bolt guns: what is a bolt gun, a combi bolter a bolt gun and a hurrican bolter

EVEN without the FAQ this is clearly obvious on their intent as well as RAW

You guys are severely mistaken on what is "obvious" and what isn't. To one side of the argument, it is obvious that it is Boltguns, Combi-Weapons and Hurricane bolters, but this did not become obvious until a FAQ came out to clarify, otherwise they would not have to clarify anything at all.

To the other side, it is obviously referring to the weapon type Boltguns.

The first side is right purely due to the FAQ, not because of any "obviousness" of the wording.

Therefore, it is by no means Rules as Written when you look to the FAQ which is in fact not a rule list but simple clarifications and adjustments to mistakes. One can play purely by Rules as Written and have the effect apply to the category of Boltguns and legitimately not be in the wrong as there is no implication of anything else.

 Lobomalo wrote:
You guys are severely mistaken on what is "obvious" and what isn't. To one side of the argument, it is obvious that it is Boltguns, Combi-Weapons and Hurricane bolters, but this did not become obvious until a FAQ came out to clarify, otherwise they would not have to clarify anything at all.

To the other side, it is obviously referring to the weapon type Boltguns.

The first side is right purely due to the FAQ, not because of any "obviousness" of the wording.

Therefore, it is by no means Rules as Written when you look to the FAQ which is in fact not a rule list but simple clarifications and adjustments to mistakes. One can play purely by Rules as Written and have the effect apply to the category of Boltguns and legitimately not be in the wrong as there is no implication of anything else.

Its obvious because it says "boltguns" and not "boltgun weapons""

It says Boltguns. Turn to the heading in the rulebook and the heading says Boltguns, not Boltgun weapons.

I understand the FAQ, I am commenting on this perception of "obviousness" that others have. This comes from prior knowledge of the game and being around longer, new players reading this won't have the same "obvious" conclusion.

 Happyjew wrote:
Generally when something refers to the collective group of weapons, it will say something like "all flamer weapons as defined in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook".

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
Generally when something refers to the collective group of weapons, it will say something like "all flamer weapons as defined in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook".

Note the word "generally" then look it up in a dictionary. Generally does not mean always, it is merely an expression of something widely accepted as the norm.

boltgun is the name of a specific weapon. All it says is boltgun. If it wanted the group it would of needed to specify it

 CrownAxe wrote:
boltgun is the name of a specific weapon. All it says is boltgun. If it wanted the group it would of needed to specify it

And you realize this is unclear to new players correct?

You have prior knowledge because you were around when it was FAQ'd. To a new player, reading the rules as they are written, it read Boltguns. It makes no reference to the category or to specific weapons so they can land on whatever interpretation they get from reading this.

Thus is is not "obvious"

New players get basics wrong, why should they factor in?