Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

This is more of a Imperial guard question but it could go for almost any army. With the new changes to the rules is the rule of thumb that for every 500 points you should add a troop choice? Example at 1500 points you'd have 3 troops. Or with everything scoring just take 2 or 3 no matter the point game? The reason I'm asking is that one troop choice pointed up with a chimera and 2 plasma gun cost the same as stock leman russ executioner.

A rule of thumb was the width of the stick you were allowed to beat your wife with. I don't think we should beat our wives.

Oh and yes. I think troops are great now and you should take that exact ratio as it is perfect.

I've always in my head done that regardless " Okay thousand 2 troops, 1500 3 troops"

Hollismason wrote:
A rule of thumb was the width of the stick you were allowed to beat your wife with. I don't think we should beat our wives.

Wrong. (The first statement, not the second one.)

 Bludbaff wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
A rule of thumb was the width of the stick you were allowed to beat your wife with. I don't think we should beat our wives.

Wrong. (The first statement, not the second one.)

Unless she is into that.

But no, troops are based on the efficiency that you can get them to offsetting fire power. For chaos I would rather get the min troops and then focus on getting more killing into my list. Objective secured only matters if they are alive to contest.

So for marines they can get 6 full ones for 18. Although I think that is overkill. I would rather get 12 for about 5/8s the price and then have a bunch more points for offense.

Leth pretty much summed it up. It's going to vary wildly by army. I think Tyranids can field an effective-ish army with almost nothing but troops. I KNOW Dark Eldar can field a relatively good army with almost no non-troop units. Space Marine Bike armies and Ravenwing armies can also do troop-heavy forces with no worries about loss of efficiency. However, many other armies are just buying two troops in order to pay the ante cost for some more heavy-hitting units.

Eldar points for troops are all over the place.
A tough squad is DAVU, with 5-man Dire Avengers in a Wave Serpent. Vehicles can score now, even when empty?
Or there's the 3-man jetbike squad for the price of an infantry squad.

I take jetbikes in every list, but they're added at the end. Meaning I try to take at least 3 infantry or more every time, 1000 points up anyway.

I play AM, and I wasn't aware of any suggested troop amounts. I don't know of a "rule" or "suggestion" that applies here, because everything is scoring now, it opens up all kinds of variables, and viable elite and fast attack choices.

I've played 1 game in 7th edition, and with all units scoring, I would look at troops now in terms of their role in my army, vs strictly for scoring.

For instance, a battle forged army must include 2 troops, so I'd decide if I want 2 platoons, or veterans, or a combo. After fulfilling the compulsory slots with troops that are relevant to my list, I would question whether I need more. If I run a chimera/taurox spam list, obviously I'll be fielding lots of veteran squads, but if I run an artillery heavy list, I'll spend as little as possible on troops. It depends on how the army will function as a whole, and if Scions can claim an objective via deepstrike, I'll go with them if I can, or a chimera full of Ogryn ... whatever fits the situation.

Each unit type has a role, right? BA Jump Infantry is going to be useful in 7th, and they happen to be a troop choice. However, Tau Fire Warriors aren't very mobile, I wonder if we'll see more Vespids in the Tau meta, for Maelstrom of War mission objectives.

In 6th ed, you needed troops if you were going to play an objective game. Now, every game is an objective game, and troop selection has changed from "I need these for taking objectives" to "I can take objectives with anything, how do my troops fit in this army?".

That's my take, after my first Maelstrom of War mission last night, which was awesome.

 CaptObvious wrote:
I play AM, and I wasn't aware of any suggested troop amounts. I don't know of a "rule" or "suggestion" that applies here, because everything is scoring now, it opens up all kinds of variables, and viable elite and fast attack choices.

I've played 1 game in 7th edition, and with all units scoring, I would look at troops now in terms of their role in my army, vs strictly for scoring.

For instance, a battle forged army must include 2 troops, so I'd decide if I want 2 platoons, or veterans, or a combo. After fulfilling the compulsory slots with troops that are relevant to my list, I would question whether I need more. If I run a chimera/taurox spam list, obviously I'll be fielding lots of veteran squads, but if I run an artillery heavy list, I'll spend as little as possible on troops. It depends on how the army will function as a whole, and if Scions can claim an objective via deepstrike, I'll go with them if I can, or a chimera full of Ogryn ... whatever fits the situation.

Each unit type has a role, right? BA Jump Infantry is going to be useful in 7th, and they happen to be a troop choice. However, Tau Fire Warriors aren't very mobile, I wonder if we'll see more Vespids in the Tau meta, for Maelstrom of War mission objectives.

In 6th ed, you needed troops if you were going to play an objective game. Now, every game is an objective game, and troop selection has changed from "I need these for taking objectives" to "I can take objectives with anything, how do my troops fit in this army?".

That's my take, after my first Maelstrom of War mission last night, which was awesome.

My tau friend is already busting out his fish and fury list from 5th that has only gotten better with the changes to ethereals......that and riptides

 CaptObvious wrote:
Each unit type has a role, right? BA Jump Infantry is going to be useful in 7th, and they happen to be a troop choice. However, Tau Fire Warriors aren't very mobile, I wonder if we'll see more Vespids in the Tau meta, for Maelstrom of War mission objectives.

We won't, because Vespids are pretty bad
FWs with Devilfishes are pretty mobile. With the new Jink rules, devilfishes became more bearable with such high price. But I believe Farsight Enclaves will be even more used

Some people generalize with list creation by saying you should have so many troops at each arbitrary level.

In actuality this idea is too rigid to be applied.

Some armies like eldar can spam troop choices because they are already powerful units, such as bike armies, or because they unlock other options like the powerful wave serpent.
Use a SM army with the same number of number of troop choices in rhinos and you will be in for a tough time because they are not as competitive (Although scoring rhinos certainly makes this more viable now).

Daemons in 6th edition could get by with 2-3 troop choices at 1850 points and still win major tournaments.

Now 7th edition lets anything score you may be able to get by with even less troops than before. Or you may wish to pile up on them and try to use Objective secured to your advantage. The number you choose simply has to match your playstyle, not an arbitrary number.

Before 7th, my base rule was "A minimum of 4 Troops" 1000? That just means not much else gets taken. I have not had a chance to see how 7Th has changed things, so I don't know.

But if I was building a AM list, I'd want 4 Troops anyway, because I believe Objective secured can be a powerful tool. I play Nids, so I habitually run 5+ Troops (with Formations more like 9+ ) So it's easy for me to think this way. But even if I was building a CSM list I'd buy two CSM Troops, and two Chaos Cultist Troops without blinking. (Maybe a Helbrute Cult for the Cultists )

Keep in mind as well that in the 2 troop choice the guard has, one is actually made up of 3 troop units minimum, all the while counting as a single troop choice.

If I play all my infantry with HWS, that means I'm going around with 9 troop units

Hmmm... Maybe I have too many Marines?

Wait? What? No, don't be ridiculous! You can never have too many troops.

I usually have 4 troop slots in any given game. I play SM, and I like to use my Scouts, and I always noticed how when the local guys would take the bare minimum for troops they'd always get worked if the other player could play to the mission. Most games like that you could just nuke the only two objective holders in the army then just not get shot off the board by the rest of it. Eventually you would win.

For me, the objective changes don't mean much, because already we knew troops got vaped easily so you knew to protect them or hide them and secure objectives later on in the mid and end game. Really will that change just because you now need special units to contest? The idea behind the power list wasn't to sit on objectives, it was to win by tabling. This doesn't change.

Really the only thing that is different is now you can't march an Elite onto a spot and expect to contest, now you have to use that unit to kill the troops there instead. I guess if you thought about it long enough I can see the logic, but really why wouldn't any infantryman be able to hold down a bunker or secure an outpost? Oh well though...

I suspect you will still find yourself using the same formula, and it will probably still work, but it couldn't hurt to change it for awhile.

I sound like a Car Mechanic...