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Sounds like a really well run event, and glad it showed that superheavies weren't the end of 40k. More evidence I can point to to convince my friends to let me use mine!

However despite being very tempted that blog by Adam B is the reason I would never enter a competitive event. From my limited experience whoever argues more wins, and the player who doesn't want to create a fuss and doesn't play as if it's life and death invariably ends up on the losing side.

There's a big difference between saying "I have an Iron halo" and "I have a 3+ invulnerable save", and also between stating your character's weapon skill and telling your opponent what he needed to roll to hit. Why would the guy call over a TO, or even question, if he was trusting his opponent to know his own list and not give him misinformation?

 somerandomidiot wrote:

That said, as people are asking for lists, here's the list I played (best Chaos Space Marines, 15th overall):

Ahriman
9x Thousand Sons, Force Sword Sorcerer w/ Melta Bombs
9x Thousand Sons, Force Axe Sorcerer w/ Melta Bombs
9x Chaos Terminators, Mark of Tzeentch, Veterans of the Long War, 9x Combi-Plasma, 3x Power Axe, 3x Powerfist, 3x Chainfist
3x Obliterators, Mark of Tzeentch, Veterans of the Long War
3x Obliterators, Mark of Tzeentch, Veterans of the Long War

Crimson Slaughter Allies:
Sorcerer, Force Staff, Mastery Level 3, Balestar of Mannon, Melta Bombs
10x Cultists, Shotgun, Flamer, 8x Autoguns

15th with Thousand Sons? Kudos!

Where the hell is Tasty Taste with the scoop!?

 Red Corsair wrote:

 pizzaguardian wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
On a different note I am curious what the data is like in regard to average game length. How long the average turn took etc.

Torrent of fire can provide that data i think. They might have an average time from the update of the round matchups and result entry of every matchup. Although i don't think it will be automated.

I wasn't under the impression that TOF did this. I actually suggested it to Reece before the BAO and he said they were going to add it to the score card.

Although it would be an awesome feature for TOF to add if it doesn't track this already

I can confess at some moment ı was refreshing the matchups page every minute. They were coming in one by one, so it is somewhat possible but as i said some adming probably has to ho through the logs for every match.

I'd be interested to see Alex Gonzalez's list. I've had decent success with the Death Ray Pylons (often beating Annihilation Barges in sheer devastation), and I'd be interested to see what he did with FW Necrons.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
So now he was using proxies... See how it works on the Internet. : (

To clear things up: Khan doesn't actually have an official model, so you don't ever really "proxy" him (he's just a bike captain with a sword and some special rules).

As long as all the models are WYSIWYG I don't see a problem.

Great job Commander Farsight - I think you did pretty darn good for a major event.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
As long as all the models are WYSIWYG I don't see a problem.

Great job Commander Farsight - I think you did pretty darn good for a major event.

Thanks!!

 DanielBeaver wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
So now he was using proxies... See how it works on the Internet. : (

To clear things up: Khan doesn't actually have an official model, so you don't ever really "proxy" him (he's just a bike captain with a sword and some special rules).

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marine-Kor-sarro-Khan;jsessionid=60F70BC80E1C30DD2797CC8C9A1CF4B6?_requestid=1501793

- On a bike, sure, but you kinda expect it to look like the guy on foot ( and .. not an ultramarine- a homebrew chapter sure..)

 DanielBeaver wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
So now he was using proxies... See how it works on the Internet. : (

To clear things up: Khan doesn't actually have an official model, so you don't ever really "proxy" him (he's just a bike captain with a sword and some special rules).

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marine-White-Scars-Commander

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marine-Kor-sarro-Khan

 tyrannosaurus wrote:
Sounds like a really well run event, and glad it showed that superheavies weren't the end of 40k. More evidence I can point to to convince my friends to let me use mine!

However despite being very tempted that blog by Adam B is the reason I would never enter a competitive event. From my limited experience whoever argues more wins, and the player who doesn't want to create a fuss and doesn't play as if it's life and death invariably ends up on the losing side.

There's a big difference between saying "I have an Iron halo" and "I have a 3+ invulnerable save", and also between stating your character's weapon skill and telling your opponent what he needed to roll to hit. Why would the guy call over a TO, or even question, if he was trusting his opponent to know his own list and not give him misinformation?

For every one story like that, there are literally thousands (I do mean thousands) of awesome game stories and yet more thousands of individual memories of great times over sodas/brews/shots/handshakes/dice/etc. had by the many, many people who do attend these events locally, regionally, nationally, and internationally all year long.

You should give a shot at attending. You might as well not fly for fear of tales of fallen aircraft as not attend a tournament for fear of overly competitive moments.

@somerandomidiot: Very nice showing with Thousand Sons, your army was awesome! I was the guy that chatted with you about our demon prince conversions and how Ahriman can cast Psychic Shriek multiple times =). I think if I ran Thousand Sons I would have that Land Raider with 25 capacity and stick the Rubric terminators in there and take Demon allies for Be'Lakor and some horrors. Despite their short comings, Thousand Sons are still a very cool army.


@all: I was the Eldar player who placed in top 3 and won 2nd best general. My list was as follows:

Iyanden Primary:

-Farseer, Jetbike, Singing Spear, Guardian Helm
-2x Spiritseers

-8X Wraithblades (axes/shields) w/ Serpent
-5xDire Avengers w/ Serpent
-5xDire Avengers w/ Serpent
-3x Jetbikes
-3x Jetbikes

-5x Warp Spiders

-2x Wraith Knights

Dark Eldar Allies:

-Baron

-5x Warriors


Was a solid event and I definitely look forward to attending next year!

Regarding the drama, bummer that there was any drama at all but in an event that big and with the chance to win the event/game on the line, things can get tense.

All I will say is that if the poster on Dice Abide had a legitimate reason to give the opponent a "thumbs down" and actually did so, the person who won the event may not have won due to having already been given a "thumbs down" by a previous opponent (so he would have had 2). It would be interesting to hear what that other opponent who actually gave the guy a "thumbs down" has to say.

Regardless, this thread is about celebrating how awesome BAO was/is so lets try to keep it to such a discussion? =D

If one player gave him a thumbs down and another probably should have gave him a thumbs down that seems like a pretty good indication that he might by TFG which is unfortunate. If what Adam from the dice abide is telling the truth that is some pretty shady behavior. I don't put any blame on someone trusting what their opponent tells them if they have no reason to be doubtful. Of course I usually make it a point to ask for my opponents codex at the beginning of the game to give it a quick skim through so I have a base of knowledge to prevent things like this.

I had a great time! I only played three games, since my 0-2-1 record on day 1 made other options more enticing for Sunday. However, the terrain was great, those mats are awesome, my opponents were great...and yet, I read this story from Dice Abide and I am reminded why 40K is still a bad tournament game. 40K has enough problems just based on lousy rules; the issue of cheating is what will really keep it as a marginal at best tourney system. I know Frontline had judges available and on the floor (more would be better, but I understand how difficult it is to get competent people to work essentially for free), so the fault isn't exactly with them here.

The problem, as I see it, is that 40K players allow cheating to continue and refuse to make an example of the cheaters. Tell them that it is not allowed. So, if 40K as a whole wants to be taken seriously, this should be investigated and, if they think it was probably a cheat, the offender should be banned from Frontline events for some defined period. You lose more players by allowing this to happen than you keep by refusing to take a stand.

 mortetvie wrote:
@somerandomidiot: Very nice showing with Thousand Sons, your army was awesome! I was the guy that chatted with you about our demon prince conversions and how Ahriman can cast Psychic Shriek multiple times =). I think if I ran Thousand Sons I would have that Land Raider with 25 capacity and stick the Rubric terminators in there and take Demon allies for Be'Lakor and some horrors. Despite their short comings, Thousand Sons are still a very cool army.

Seriously, next time I should remember all my rules! Grats on the placing man.

skarsol wrote:

 DanielBeaver wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
So now he was using proxies... See how it works on the Internet. : (

To clear things up: Khan doesn't actually have an official model, so you don't ever really "proxy" him (he's just a bike captain with a sword and some special rules).

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marine-White-Scars-Commander

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marine-Kor-sarro-Khan

*shrug*

Neither of them is a model of Kor'sarro Khan on his bike (the first is a generic "white scars commander", though he's certainly meant to be a bone to throw to white scar players who might complain about him not having a unique model).

 Dozer Blades wrote:
So we are to accept the accuser's claim as 100 percent exactly what actually happened? And yes anyone playing in a big competitive event should know an iron halo is 4++.

Well, the first mistake was accusing me of being a competitive player.

I know that an Iron Halo isn't a 3++, but I also know that special characters often times have rules, stats or equipment that aren't standard. Also at that point, I simply dismissed it as either being human error (which I might not do again in the future), or my lack of knowledge of the rules that Khan has (as this was literally the first time I've ever hit Khan directly with an attack, he's not too common in my neighborhood). It's also not in my character to sit there and moan over something that wont impact the game, I was just expecting my scorpion to punch him in the face in combat, or squash him with a stomp (had I gotten a 6 on one of my D3+2 stomps this wouldn't have even been an issue, haha), and the number of wounds he had remaining would have been completely irrelevant. Really it was the WS7 that was the bigger issue, as I had a couple rolls of a 4 to hit that could have really made the impact. It wasn't until a while after the game that I found out that Khan didn't have a 3++ from anything (which again, I didn't really make a stink about because it was inconsequential and could have easily been a mistake), and wasn't until the next day that I found out he had no reason for me to require a 5 to hit him in combat, but by then it was far too late. Really, it was the car ride back to the tournament, reading the Space Marine codex, when I really started to question anyone's motivations. The 3++ save, requiring 5's to hit, rolling to end the game behind my back, combined with the bad attitude all really simmered together, which got me to write the article.

PS - If any of you know me, you should know how difficult it was to decide to publish the article. I've created a reputation on not speaking ill of anyone, and intend to keep it, I tried to write the article as respectfully as possible, while still expressing my frustration. I'm far more disappointed in the whole experience than the results of the game, as a Chaos Marine player, I'm quite accustomed to losing, haha.

Are there any army lists available for the top 10? Besides the guy that won of course

New direction for discussion:

Times.

Not one of my games ran out of time. 2 ended with a concede, so they're not relevant to this.

3 games went to turn 5, with 30 minutes or more to spare on the 2.5 hour clock. Each ended on the die roll.

1 game went to 6.5 turns, and we ended that with 30 minutes plus.

---------
I am slow. My army is slow. I ran MSU eldar with most of the time consuming elements, blade focus, ScatterLaser spam on 4 WaveS and 3 War Walkers, WarpSpider multiple movement. Only thing missing was a long Psychic phase, but I had no psycher.

Many of my 40k buds thought that 1850 was too high a number to play in 2.5 hours. Two opponents seemed 'rookie-ish', but never-the-less played fast enough. Izzit that players "step up their game" at a GT?

I saw a few games where the time ran out, but it seemed to be like ... Less than 5 or so per round.

Comments?

Finished all my games even had one go to turn 6

 Brothererekose wrote:
New direction for discussion:

Times.

Not one of my games ran out of time. 2 ended with a concede, so they're not relevant to this.

3 games went to turn 5, with 30 minutes or more to spare on the 2.5 hour clock. Each ended on the die roll.

1 game went to 6.5 turns, and we ended that with 30 minutes plus.

---------
I am slow. My army is slow. I ran MSU eldar; blade focus, scarLas spam on 4 WaveS and 3 War Walkers, WarpSpider multiple movement. Only thing missing was a long Psychic phase, but I had no psycher.

Many of my 40k buds thought that 1850 was too high a number to play in 2.5 hours. Two opponents seemed 'rookie-ish', but never-the-less played fast enough. Izzit that players "step up their game" at a GT?

I saw a few games where the time ran out, but it seemed to be like ... Less than 5 or so per round.

Comments?

I didn't get to go this year but in all the GTs I have played I think the section I highlighted in red has a lot to do with the difference in games finishing from the RT to GT level.

 Brothererekose wrote:
New direction for discussion:

Times.

Not one of my games ran out of time. 2 ended with a concede, so they're not relevant to this.

3 games went to turn 5, with 30 minutes or more to spare on the 2.5 hour clock. Each ended on the die roll.

1 game went to 6.5 turns, and we ended that with 30 minutes plus.

---------
I am slow. My army is slow. I ran MSU eldar with most of the time consuming elements, blade focus, ScatterLaser spam on 4 WaveS and 3 War Walkers, WarpSpider multiple movement. Only thing missing was a long Psychic phase, but I had no psycher.

Many of my 40k buds thought that 1850 was too high a number to play in 2.5 hours. Two opponents seemed 'rookie-ish', but never-the-less played fast enough. Izzit that players "step up their game" at a GT?

I saw a few games where the time ran out, but it seemed to be like ... Less than 5 or so per round.

Comments?

I finished all of my games with 40 minutes to an hour to spare. Bringing a 700 point super heavy in a mechanized army really speeds things up, I have a whopping 6 models to move and until my transports pop, it doesn't change much.

To me this was one of the best GTs I've been to. It was great time. Awesome six games. Got to meet new people and hanging out with my friends in another city was a blast. I ended going 5-1 for 3rd Best General and 5th Overall with my White Scars/ Iron Hands Rhino Rush Army. I'd like to thank Frontline Gaming for all there effort into running a solid, well ran tournament.

I played
White Scars Bikes losing 4-2.
Farsight Bomb Tau winning 6-5.
Drop Pod Wolves winning 6-2.
Seer Council Eldar winning 8-2.
AV13 Blood Angels winning 9-2.
5 Imperial Knights winning 10-1.




Finalized list for Bay Area Open GT 2014

White Scars

Khan on Bike

Tactical Squad 1
Combi-melta, Meltabombs, Meltagun, 8x Bolters
Rhino

Tactical Squad 2
Combi-melta, Meltabombs, Meltagun, 8x Bolters
Rhino

Tactical Squad 3
Combi-melta, Meltabombs, Meltagun, 8x Bolters
Rhino

Tactical Squad 4
Combi-melta, Meltabombs, Meltagun, 8x Bolters
Rhino

Tactical Squad 5
Melta bombs Flamer, 4x Bolters
Rhino

Thunderfire Cannon

Allied Iron Hands

Chapter Master
Bike, Artificer Armour, Thunder Hammer, Shield Eternal

Scout Squad
Bolter, Melta Bombs, CCWs
Land Speeder Storm
Heavy Flamer

Sternguard Squad
5 Combi-meltas,
Drop Pod

Thunderfire Cannon


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I had 2 games not finish due to time. In Round 2 I could finish the assault phase where Khan, Chapter Master and 5 tacts were in combat with Farsight, 2 suits and a Riptide.

The other game was in Round 3 vs Drop Pod Wolves where he got 4 full turns and I only got 3 full turns.

Every other game I played finished on time and with time to spare.

The whole thing was a lot of fun. The frontline guys threw a great event. Thanks to them!!

JulnlecsMade: cool list, glad you had fun (and did well with tac squads!)

It was a great event and the frontline gaming guys did a great job.

I liked the new place a lot. It was easy to get to, and $5 for parking was not bad.

I have to make a couple of suggestions...

#1. Casey already said it, but attention to the restrooms might be in order. They ran out of TP pretty quickly.

#2. Ties gave 0 points. You can lose and get 5 points, or if you get a tie and have either the primary or secondary you are still going to get 4-5 points. The problem is when you tie the primary and the secondary you end up with 0 points? That does not seem right.

#3. Collect a copy of everyone's army list. This will have 2 outcomes:
a) People will think they are being checked and it might keep some players honest.
b) In case there is an "issue" (like an illegal list or points), you will have a resource to check.

 minionboy wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
So we are to accept the accuser's claim as 100 percent exactly what actually happened? And yes anyone playing in a big competitive event should know an iron halo is 4++.

Well, the first mistake was accusing me of being a competitive player.

I know that an Iron Halo isn't a 3++, but I also know that special characters often times have rules, stats or equipment that aren't standard. Also at that point, I simply dismissed it as either being human error (which I might not do again in the future), or my lack of knowledge of the rules that Khan has (as this was literally the first time I've ever hit Khan directly with an attack, he's not too common in my neighborhood). It's also not in my character to sit there and moan over something that wont impact the game, I was just expecting my scorpion to punch him in the face in combat, or squash him with a stomp (had I gotten a 6 on one of my D3+2 stomps this wouldn't have even been an issue, haha), and the number of wounds he had remaining would have been completely irrelevant. Really it was the WS7 that was the bigger issue, as I had a couple rolls of a 4 to hit that could have really made the impact. It wasn't until a while after the game that I found out that Khan didn't have a 3++ from anything (which again, I didn't really make a stink about because it was inconsequential and could have easily been a mistake), and wasn't until the next day that I found out he had no reason for me to require a 5 to hit him in combat, but by then it was far too late. Really, it was the car ride back to the tournament, reading the Space Marine codex, when I really started to question anyone's motivations. The 3++ save, requiring 5's to hit, rolling to end the game behind my back, combined with the bad attitude all really simmered together, which got me to write the article.

PS - If any of you know me, you should know how difficult it was to decide to publish the article. I've created a reputation on not speaking ill of anyone, and intend to keep it, I tried to write the article as respectfully as possible, while still expressing my frustration. I'm far more disappointed in the whole experience than the results of the game, as a Chaos Marine player, I'm quite accustomed to losing, haha.

Rough game, but hopefully the rest of the event was better for you. Sorry to hear about that experience... I've had similar but I think dwelling on it can overshadow / ruin the rest of a great event. In the future I guess you'll just have to double check the rolls needed in that critical situation.

Anyway, hopefully this does not burn you out, as MVBrandt said there are thousands of great experiences for every one like this.

I have never so thoroughly agreed with Blackmore. Cool.

As for times, I was 100% sure this would be a.negative issue and I thought bumping armies up to 1850 would work out so poorly. None of my games went to time though, and only in one round was it particularly close. I'd still vote for a lower point limit next year, to be honest, but 1850 was not a problem in my games.

This was the best tourny I have been to! The lists were super tough, and the competition was fierce. But Everyone I played was pretty damn cool. I had 6 good games and for the first time didn't play TFG once at at tournament! Frontline crew knows how to throw a party and I will attend any other events they do. It was great to see friends kick it in San Jose. I went 3-3-0 with my DE and every game was close (except for when Ben Cromwell kicked my teeth in with his Necrons).

http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2014/07/28/bao-results-rewards-and-some-pics/

Results, Rewards and Pics!

Thanks so much to everyone that came out and had fun!

I shall now sleep for a good 12 hours or so, me thinks.