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Gotcha, sorry for the misunderstanding.

It is a thread about reminding each other to stop Kickstarting PVC though You were kind of walking into an AA meeting and saying "Hey, who wants to hit the bar after? First round's on me!"


Speaking of KS pvc, I just got my Relic Knights package #1. I'll let you know how that goes.

 Wehrkind wrote:
Gotcha, sorry for the misunderstanding.

It is a thread about reminding each other to stop Kickstarting PVC though You were kind of walking into an AA meeting and saying "Hey, who wants to hit the bar after? First round's on me!"


Speaking of KS pvc, I just got my Relic Knights package #1. I'll let you know how that goes.

No problem! I just don't always word things well. Fair enough point -- my post is off topic for the thread. I will keep the PVC debate in other threads!

zreef wrote:

 basement.dweller wrote:
As long as you are getting your moneys worth in fun that's fine I guess. The house always wins when gambling though, until you stop playing

I never gamble but I do a lot of investing

That is in large gambling. I'm sure you know the statistics of startups that actually survive. It's quite a harsh reality. There is always a risk. Nevermind a KS success - that is no guarantee the product is any good, nor is it a guarantee that the product or company will survive or thrive in the future. Like I said, as long as you are "having fun" and you feel it's worth your money, go right ahead. Personally the equivalence of not gambling in this instance is waiting for the actual product to see if it's worth it. If everybody keeps throwing money at "restic" it's never going to stop or send the message that we as consumers want better quality.

Greed has driven me to buy into what I felt was a good deal in the past. Getting literally hundreds of figures at a good price. Net result = I now own hundreds of figures that I will probably never touch. That is not a good investment in my book. It's leading to basement reminiscent of Scrooge Mcduck's vault.

I will take quality over quantity every time.

 basement.dweller wrote:
It's leading to basement reminiscent of Scrooge Mcduck's vault.

Spoiler:

I will take quality over quantity every time.

Someone diving into a pit full of reaper bones and then bouncing up into the blades of a ceiling fan would also be amusing.

While I've advocated for bones to be considered as a different material than the hard grey PVC, the quantity vs quality issue definitely applies there as well. Of all the people I know locally who went in on the first reaper bones kickstarter, only one has actually been working through and painting their miniatures. The rest sort of keep them in a box in their closet and maybe pull one out every now and again.

And given the array of stinkers in terms of sculpts being inappropriate to the material in the first kickstarter, they have a bunch of low detail PVC they'll never get to. Same end result as any restic crap kickstarter.

Quality over quality is definitely a good way to go. I've always advocated a different way to figure out the actual cost of miniatures used in game play or painted.

Take the total amount of money you spent on miniatures and divide it not by the number of miniatures owned, but by the number of miniatures that actually serve a hobby purpose. Either painting or putting them on the table in an actual game. That's your real cost per miniature. And I'm guessing a lot of people who put a few hundred dollars into bones and have painted and used a handful have the end result being the same as if they had paid $50+ per miniature.

.

 frozenwastes wrote:


Take the total amount of money you spent on miniatures and divide it not by the number of miniatures owned, but by the number of miniatures that actually serve a hobby purpose. Either painting or putting them on the table in an actual game. That's your real cost per miniature. And I'm guessing a lot of people who put a few hundred dollars into bones and have painted and used a handful have the end result being the same as if they had paid $50+ per miniature.

.

This is a great way to figure cost! Though to that I would add assembly as I have fun in putting things together, converting, etc. (though that may vary by person to person).

Definitely. Everyone needs to figure out what actually constitutes hobby use for them.

I do still find the people who put $300+ into a Kickstarter and then maybe paint one or two miniatures to be hilarious though.

I think PVC can be done well, it just often is not... I will use DUST as an example. I have a few of these figures and aside rom the bendy guns I quite like them and find their quality to be more than good enough for my purpose. I think the major issue is the quality of the contractor/company performing the service/production.

 NoseGoblin wrote:
I think PVC can be done well, it just often is not... I will use DUST as an example. I have a few of these figures and aside rom the bendy guns I quite like them and find their quality to be more than good enough for my purpose. I think the major issue is the quality of the contractor/company performing the service/production.

Are they more like reaper bones or prepainted D&D miniatures than the hard grey PVC stuff like Mantic or Privateer?

 frozenwastes wrote:

 NoseGoblin wrote:
I think PVC can be done well, it just often is not... I will use DUST as an example. I have a few of these figures and aside rom the bendy guns I quite like them and find their quality to be more than good enough for my purpose. I think the major issue is the quality of the contractor/company performing the service/production.

Are they more like reaper bones or prepainted D&D miniatures than the hard grey PVC stuff like Mantic or Privateer?

I do not have the others so I cannot make the comparison, they remind me 'constancy wise' of the little green army men you would get as a kid but with much better detail. and painted in a aggressive primer so the surface can accept paint.

 frozenwastes wrote:
Definitely. Everyone needs to figure out what actually constitutes hobby use for them.

I do still find the people who put $300+ into a Kickstarter and then maybe paint one or two miniatures to be hilarious though.

That's not my fault.

I was told they would be of the highest quality on the market, it said so on the front page.

It wasn't.

I will soon be having a how to video of things you can do with restic other that painting them.

I can't wait for that video

And yeah, I know everyone got caught up in the hype. I think a solid half of the figures are actually alright. I'd recommend eBaying them to recoup your losses

Now there's a brotherhood of knights to help keep the hype at bay and hopefully spare others the pain of a similar encounter.

Woe unto those who have heard the warning and yet do not heed it! The knights they spurn will look upon them an laugh at their folly. Though all those who turn from the pvc way and guard against it's vile depredation will always be welcomed without scorn.

it includes bandsaw, drill, drill press, hopefully a bottle rocket if I can make across the PA boarder in time, blender, microwave, me pissing on it, BBQ or camp fire. Going to see if I can borrow my friend's war hammer.


Not sure what else. Wish I had a golf club.

It will serve better purpose than original intentions.

Thinking it will be set to Yakety Sax.

 frozenwastes wrote:

Take the total amount of money you spent on miniatures and divide it not by the number of miniatures owned, but by the number of miniatures that actually serve a hobby purpose. Either painting or putting them on the table in an actual game. That's your real cost per miniature. And I'm guessing a lot of people who put a few hundred dollars into bones and have painted and used a handful have the end result being the same as if they had paid $50+ per miniature.
.

To be fair, the resitc I own there probably costs me just as much as HIPS or Resin or Classic metal figures by that standard. And the price/model using that metric ....is not good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Piston Honda wrote:
it includes bandsaw, drill, drill press, hopefully a bottle rocket if I can make across the PA boarder in time, blender, microwave, me pissing on it, BBQ or camp fire. Going to see if I can borrow my friend's war hammer.
Not sure what else. Wish I had a golf club.
It will serve better purpose than original intentions.
Thinking it will be set to Yakety Sax.

Firearms? Can there be firearms?

 Azazelx wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:

Take the total amount of money you spent on miniatures and divide it not by the number of miniatures owned, but by the number of miniatures that actually serve a hobby purpose. Either painting or putting them on the table in an actual game. That's your real cost per miniature. And I'm guessing a lot of people who put a few hundred dollars into bones and have painted and used a handful have the end result being the same as if they had paid $50+ per miniature.
.

To be fair, the resitc I own there probably costs me just as much as HIPS or Resin or Classic metal figures by that standard. And the price/model using that metric ....is not good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Piston Honda wrote:
it includes bandsaw, drill, drill press, hopefully a bottle rocket if I can make across the PA boarder in time, blender, microwave, me pissing on it, BBQ or camp fire. Going to see if I can borrow my friend's war hammer.
Not sure what else. Wish I had a golf club.
It will serve better purpose than original intentions.
Thinking it will be set to Yakety Sax.

Firearms? Can there be firearms?

That is tempting, very very tempting.

Wonder where my cross bow is at?

the horror the horror

Pardon me my brothers, for I have sinned.

while I'm still pure and have yet too be stained by this terrible evil they call PVC, my wargaming innocence is about to end, since i have made the unforgivasble mistake of pledging on the unholy aberrations that is the relic knights kickstarter. While I understand that no reasons can absolve me of this terrible act, I must say that I was brought on this path by a member of my own family, my brother, who tempted me with those beautiful pictures and renders of minis at a price that seem to defy reason. I should have known better, and refuse to follow him on this perfidious path, yet I succumbed to the temptations, and carelessly chewed on this sinful fruit. Time passed, and I almost forgot this disastrous experience, sometime wondering if it really happened or if it was not only a figment of my imagination playing tricks on me. After all, I reasoned, I've been a modeler and a hobbyist for decades, and I never even seen one of these atrocity, even less possessed one. There's no way that I could have fallen to such an abysmal level of depravity.

They say justice has long arms, yet, at least, theyexist instance of persons who were able to get away with the most terrible crimes, as the example of jack the ripper can attest. Their is no such escape possible with this PVC horror, it will track you down, no matter how many years ago you made the dreadful act of pushing the pledge button. One morning, I received the confirmation that I indeed, had willingly committed this act, I received a message telling me my relic knights was about to ship.

The horror
the horror
the horror
The horror
the horror
the horror
The horror
the horror
the horror

it's coming
It's coming
It's coming

 frozenwastes wrote:
I do still find the people who put $300+ into a Kickstarter and then maybe paint one or two miniatures to be hilarious though.

I laugh about it as well, but only to keep myself from crying...

I'm chalking the Mantic KoW kickstarter up completely as a loss. I did paint all of the figs from Deadzone though.

I did not mean for that line to sound quite so rude. Sorry to anyone who feels laughed at. You had no way of knowing exactly how the miniatures you'd get from the KS would turn out in advance.

 frozenwastes wrote:
I did not mean for that line to sound quite so rude. Sorry to anyone who feels laughed at. You had no way of knowing exactly how the miniatures you'd get from the KS would turn out in advance.

But I did know how my Bones would turn out from the first kickstarter...

I don't consider the reaper bones to really be restic, at least not in the sense that say, Mantic and PP use restic.


Bones is actually both super easy to work with, and dirt cheap. It actually delivers on the promise of restic, although admittedly some details do get washed out. I've painted enough of my Kickstarter bones to know that I love the material.

Oh I love my Bones as well. Slowly working my way through painting the models. I was just being a tease.

I keep buying bones at full retail. There are some sculpts where the detail shows great in metal but not in the bendy bonesium. I think if you separate the vampire pledge level into good sculpts and bad sculpts and then figure out what each figure cost you just for the good ones, you are still way, way ahead of retail.

There are just some sculpts that don't work well in bones:

Compared with the great ones like this:

 Polonius wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:
I do still find the people who put $300+ into a Kickstarter and then maybe paint one or two miniatures to be hilarious though.

I laugh about it as well, but only to keep myself from crying...

I'm chalking the Mantic KoW kickstarter up completely as a loss. I did paint all of the figs from Deadzone though.

You know what? The Ogres are actually quite decent models, even in restic. The thing that holds them back at "decent" and prevents them from being "good" is actually Remy's over-detailed sculpting (which makes painting and cleaning a nightmare if you want to do an army) and the limited number of parts (only three torsos, including knock-kneed, 6 heads, most of which are ...crap). If you were painting only 3, or 6 they'd be fine. For an army, they're extraordinarily painful.

 Azazelx wrote:

 Polonius wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:
I do still find the people who put $300+ into a Kickstarter and then maybe paint one or two miniatures to be hilarious though.

I laugh about it as well, but only to keep myself from crying...

I'm chalking the Mantic KoW kickstarter up completely as a loss. I did paint all of the figs from Deadzone though.

You know what? The Ogres are actually quite decent models, even in restic. The thing that holds them back at "decent" and prevents them from being "good" is actually Remy's over-detailed sculpting (which makes painting and cleaning a nightmare if you want to do an army) and the limited number of parts (only three torsos, including knock-kneed, 6 heads, most of which are ...crap). If you were painting only 3, or 6 they'd be fine. For an army, they're extraordinarily painful.

I grabbed a few in a trade, and I'm going to paint them up for my eventual Kingdoms of Men army. I'm disenheartened, as I was actually considering building them up to a full army...

 Polonius wrote:
I don't consider the reaper bones to really be restic, at least not in the sense that say, Mantic and PP use restic.


Bones is actually both super easy to work with, and dirt cheap. It actually delivers on the promise of restic, although admittedly some details do get washed out. I've painted enough of my Kickstarter bones to know that I love the material.

I had a few Bones models before the KS, and Bones does what it says on the tin. I don't consider it to be in the same class as restic. Bones provided me with all of the Pathfinder/FRPG models I'll ever need at a decent price, as well as quite a few things I can use elsewhere.

Sedition Wars offered "A Deep Space Horror board game with 50 amazing miniatures from Mike McVey! Sedition Wars : Battle for Alabaster represents the best that miniatures gaming has to offer! The game contains – 50 highly detailed 28mm miniatures..."

 frozenwastes wrote:

 NoseGoblin wrote:
I think PVC can be done well, it just often is not... I will use DUST as an example. I have a few of these figures and aside rom the bendy guns I quite like them and find their quality to be more than good enough for my purpose. I think the major issue is the quality of the contractor/company performing the service/production.

Are they more like reaper bones or prepainted D&D miniatures than the hard grey PVC stuff like Mantic or Privateer?

Somewhere in between, it is somewhat bendy like mage knight figures but harder, but as hard as the grey PVC material

That sounds interesting. So sort of harder than the AT-43 prepainted plastics were, but with a matte finish?

How are mould lines?

One does have to learn how to paint Bones mini's. They tend to absorb and sweat away most primers.

My process is to wash them in soap and water and once dry brush prime them with liquitex acrylic gesso. Hasn't failed me yet.

Unfortunately, my only bones purchase was a giant with a sword so soft and flexible that it didn't even make sense to try to bend it from it's natural "U" shape

I ordered it online, so while I would consider a Bones model purchase due to the price, I'd have to see it first and buy it in a store.

Other restic, without such an insanely low price, and which claim detail levels that don't match reality and are prone to terrible mold lines, are a non-starter to me. I might make an exception for models with really large, exaggerated features (like Mantic's Abyssal Golems, which I have). But the delicate things which are shown in concept art often just aren't a suitable match for this material, and can turn out terribly, as we've seen (and paid for) numerous times now.

 RiTides wrote:
Unfortunately, my only bones purchase was a giant with a sword so soft and flexible that it didn't even make sense to try to bend it from it's natural "U" shape

Did you try using very hot water? I've seen extremely bent pieces snap back into place with a few seconds in hot water. bones seems to have a memory, and you don't even need to reshape it.