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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 19:57:52
Subject: Transports/Vehicles for Cover
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Dakka Veteran
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Remember something about this in the BRB but I don't have it on hand.
But I'm fairly sure that you can have infantry duck behind say a Rhino and use it for cover? If so would this be a 4+ CS or a 5+ and would this change for other vehicles like Razorbacks, Land Raiders and Tanks?
Oh and one more question.
I know it was answered before but I can't find the thread.
Hellbrute has a ML, moves during movement phase, does it fire ML as snapshot or is it firing with its full BS as it counts as an Infantry for its movement/shooting?
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Nothing more fun than tabling an opponent |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 20:00:13
Subject: Transports/Vehicles for Cover
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Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch
avoiding the lorax on Crion
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I'd assume so, long as they block line of sight, the tall metal boxes have advantages.
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Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 20:03:23
Subject: Transports/Vehicles for Cover
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Dakka Veteran
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jhe90 wrote:I'd assume so, long as they block line of sight, the tall metal boxes have advantages.
And when determing CS, standard all around 5+ for area terrain or would it be 4+ since it is a well built structure, albeit a vehicle?
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Nothing more fun than tabling an opponent |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 20:22:30
Subject: Transports/Vehicles for Cover
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Repentia Mistress
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What does the rule book say?
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DS:70+S+G+M-B--IPw40k94-D+++A++/wWD380R+T(D)DM+
Avatar scene by artist Nicholas Kay. Give credit where it's due! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 20:23:52
Subject: Transports/Vehicles for Cover
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Dakka Veteran
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Don't have it on me or I could look for myself.
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Nothing more fun than tabling an opponent |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 20:30:26
Subject: Transports/Vehicles for Cover
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Repentia Mistress
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I see. Well, if it is not urgent perhaps you could check it later. Quoting verbatim from the rulebook is something to avoid. I think it has to do with copyright but I'm not sure.
I would like to help but my 7th Ed book hasn't arrived yet.
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DS:70+S+G+M-B--IPw40k94-D+++A++/wWD380R+T(D)DM+
Avatar scene by artist Nicholas Kay. Give credit where it's due! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 20:43:35
Subject: Transports/Vehicles for Cover
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Dakka Veteran
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milkboy wrote:I see. Well, if it is not urgent perhaps you could check it later. Quoting verbatim from the rulebook is something to avoid. I think it has to do with copyright but I'm not sure.
I would like to help but my 7th Ed book hasn't arrived yet.
I don't need a verbatim, just a simple 4+ or 5+ is enough
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Nothing more fun than tabling an opponent |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 20:47:17
Subject: Transports/Vehicles for Cover
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Repentia Mistress
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Well as I said, I would love to help. My rulebook arrives in another 18 hours time so maybe by then you might have gotten an answer from someone who can help.
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DS:70+S+G+M-B--IPw40k94-D+++A++/wWD380R+T(D)DM+
Avatar scene by artist Nicholas Kay. Give credit where it's due! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 20:49:25
Subject: Transports/Vehicles for Cover
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Dakka Veteran
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milkboy wrote:Well as I said, I would love to help. My rulebook arrives in another 18 hours time so maybe by then you might have gotten an answer from someone who can help.
Probably, I'll give the old internet a search while I wait
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Nothing more fun than tabling an opponent |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 20:56:00
Subject: Re:Transports/Vehicles for Cover
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Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries
my house
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My cousin uses rhinos to protect him from charges so he can counter-charge or shoot my brother when they play. He has also used it to protect himself from shooting when I play with him. We have always counted it as a 5+ cover save. I hope I helped
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 21:06:51
Subject: Transports/Vehicles for Cover
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The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body
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It doesn't count as cover, but it confers a cover save because you're shooting through another unit.
If the transport blocks LOS completely, then, of course, you can't shoot at the infantry at all.
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We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 21:10:56
Subject: Re:Transports/Vehicles for Cover
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Dakka Veteran
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The Emperor's Child wrote:My cousin uses rhinos to protect him from charges so he can counter-charge or shoot my brother when they play. He has also used it to protect himself from shooting when I play with him. We have always counted it as a 5+ cover save. I hope I helped
This helps a lot in fact, how did you come up with the 5+ though
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 21:26:46
Subject: Transports/Vehicles for Cover
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Fixture of Dakka
Vanished Completely
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The Rule Book contains instructions on how to determine the cover save granted by 'Intervening Units.' It is this Rule, not one based on hiding behind Terrain such as a Wreck, which generates the 5+ Cover Save that has been previously mentioned. This is because every-time any shot would be traced through a third party, friend or foe, it allows any Models in the Targeted unit a cover save regardless of how much of the Model is actually obstructed. As the Vehicle in question is a different Unit, and I assume that it is obstructing less then 100% or that causes other problems, it would be considered an 'Intervening Unit' and generate this Cover Save.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/07 21:30:05
8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 21:30:31
Subject: Transports/Vehicles for Cover
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Dakka Veteran
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JinxDragon wrote:The Rule Book contains instructions on how to determine the cover save granted by 'Intervening Units' and this is the Cover Save being generated, not one based on hiding behind Terrain such as a Wreck. Every-time the shot is traced through a third party, friend or foe, it generates a Cover Save for the Model being struck regardless of how much of the Model is actually obstructed. As the Vehicle in question is a different Unit, and I assume that it is obstructing at least part of the target and not 100%, it would be considered an 'Intervening Unit' and generate this Cover Save.
Okay I vaguely recall this off head, but the reference they used was for models in a unit you could see through, i.e., infantry. You can't see through a Rhino so couldn't we make the argument for a 4+ CS?
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Nothing more fun than tabling an opponent |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 21:35:39
Subject: Re:Transports/Vehicles for Cover
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Regular Dakkanaut
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The rulebook as far as I know does not define cover saves granted for obscurement by vehicles. Any obscurement is 5+ unless otherwise stated such as in the case for ruins.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 21:38:22
Subject: Transports/Vehicles for Cover
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Fixture of Dakka
Vanished Completely
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In that case we encounter larger issues as Line of Sight Requirements exist for the following: Targeting a Unit Allocating Wounds to a Model Range for each Weapon and a few other things related to Shooting Attacks.... Without Line of Sight one can not undertake such an attack, short of a Weapon with a Special Rule granting it.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/07 21:41:26
8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 21:41:50
Subject: Transports/Vehicles for Cover
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Dakka Veteran
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JinxDragon wrote:In that case we encounter larger issues as Line of Sight Requirements exist for the following:
Targeting a Unit
Allocating Wounds to a Model
Range for each Weapon
and a few other things related to Shooting Attacks....
Without Line of Sight one can not undertake such an attack, short of a Weapon with a Special Rule granting it.
So best to keep it as a 5+ for convenience sake or decide with my opponent before hand
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Nothing more fun than tabling an opponent |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 21:49:07
Subject: Transports/Vehicles for Cover
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Fixture of Dakka
Vanished Completely
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In this case there is nothing to discuss, the Rules require the Model be 100% visible before it can be the subject of the attack.
5+ Cover Save if the Model is visible but another Unit is between the Target and the Firing Unit.
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8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 21:51:38
Subject: Transports/Vehicles for Cover
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Dakka Veteran
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JinxDragon wrote:In this case there is nothing to discuss, the Rules require the Model be 100% visible before it can be the subject of the attack.
5+ Cover Save if the Model is visible but another Unit is between the Target and the Firing Unit.
Except the unit would not be visible if behind a transport. Direct line of sight is impossible as would be partial if the infantry is place right in the center of the transports back position and the shooter was in the front.
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Nothing more fun than tabling an opponent |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 21:56:42
Subject: Transports/Vehicles for Cover
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Fixture of Dakka
Vanished Completely
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And in doing so it becomes illegal to even Target the Unit, let alone resolve the Shooting Attack against them, as none of the targeted Models are visible.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/07 21:58:20
8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 21:58:22
Subject: Transports/Vehicles for Cover
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Dakka Veteran
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JinxDragon wrote:And in doing so it becomes Illegal to even Target the Unit, let alone resolve the Shooting Attack against them.
Actually that answers my question exactly lol
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Nothing more fun than tabling an opponent |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 22:04:39
Subject: Transports/Vehicles for Cover
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Fixture of Dakka
Vanished Completely
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Reminds me a little of some of the problems 6th edition had when it came to Line of Sight Requirements. They often would create an Exception for a specific type of Line of Sight Requirement, often Targeting a Unit, without addressing the other Line of Sight Requirements used in the very same Sequence. Needless to say, this led to situations where we had Weapons that could Target a Unit on the other side of a Rhino but would lack the ability to Allocate Wounds to said Unit....
I hear they have fixed this in 7th but I have yet to review that possible problem for myself.
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8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 22:25:08
Subject: Transports/Vehicles for Cover
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Dakka Veteran
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JinxDragon wrote:Reminds me a little of some of the problems 6th edition had when it came to Line of Sight Requirements. They often would create an Exception for a specific type of Line of Sight Requirement, often Targeting a Unit, without addressing the other Line of Sight Requirements used in the very same Sequence. Needless to say, this led to situations where we had Weapons that could Target a Unit on the other side of a Rhino but would lack the ability to Allocate Wounds to said Unit....
I hear they have fixed this in 7th but I have yet to review that possible problem for myself.
Our group has decided to take it logically, if you can't see them, you can't shoot them
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Nothing more fun than tabling an opponent |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 22:26:55
Subject: Transports/Vehicles for Cover
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The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body
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Your group didn't have to decide anything. Those are the rules, if you cant see it or reach it you can't kill it.
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We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 22:32:51
Subject: Transports/Vehicles for Cover
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Dakka Veteran
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azreal13 wrote:Your group didn't have to decide anything. Those are the rules, if you cant see it or reach it you can't kill it.
Don't have the book handy so we couldn't verify, glad to know the answer was the same though
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Nothing more fun than tabling an opponent |
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