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Hey Dakkanaughts!

The other day I was discussing with a friend how 40k and Fantasy have a lot of similarities and even a lot of miniature cross compatibility and this lead on to how compatible some of the model ranges can really be with each other.

A lot of things like the Treeman can be easily explained by Exodites, Carnosaurs etc as beasts from Death Worlds, but this lead me on to the thought of Necromancy.

Necromancy crops up a lot in 40k, predominantly in two forms, Eldar Wraith constructs and Plague zombies (to a lesser extent, some of the more decayed servants of Nurgle and the Rubricae). Outside of these two predominant themes is there any potential for necromancy to be weaved heavily in to a form of background? For example, a Chaos Marine Warband and could this be done without strictly aligning with Nurgle.

I would assume necromantic arts would have to be conducted by a Psyker or someone with access to some sort of forbidden knowledge (Like the Burning Lore upgrade for WB characters in 30k).

I think this has potential for some good tabletop fun, especially with the advent of Daemonology, raising corpses or binding daemons in to bodies.

Looking forward to hearing what you guys think!

I believe the planet Mortarion ended up on was being ruled by a Necromancer Tyrant who controlled the populace with armies of Zombies, but the planet was also full of plague clouds so i assume he was a follower of Nurgle.

Another example of Necromancy was in the Eisenhorn trilogy were Eisenhorn uses a forbidden book of evil-ness to learn how to reanimate the body of a recently killed merc. He then uses this Merc to set a trap for the people on his tail, as he also learn't how to make a psychic suicide bomb called a Warp Vortex which he had swirling around inside the Corpse, when he unleashed the Psy-bomb it obliterated an entire Hive Block. But this also put him under a lot of pressure and he fainted for 3 days, but that may be because this kind of rituals were something he was not used to and he was not fully in control. But it does show that bodies and be reanimated and the will of a powerful psyker can be channeled through them, but there are also rituals that only very powerful books teach you. On the other hand, an Alpha Level Psyker reanimated a dead *Insert Wild Life that Parade guys were riding* which easily crushed and killed some Guard, and he didn't even make a sweat, but i guess an Alpha Level can do anything.

Good point about Barbarus, that's one of the better if slightly undeveloped examples of Necromancy in 40k.

Now that you mention it I do remember Eisenhorn animating that body, it struck me as closer to possession than necromancy, in that he was basically projecting himself in to the body and puppeting it.

Certainly a good basis already, though. Time to buy some zombies as counts as plaguebearers.

Depends on if we're talking about using discarded body's like Helheim from Too Human, or capturing/bringing back a soul after death.

The first is emmenently feasible, and Imperial servitors are a good example.

The second is a bit odd, as many souls are devoured upon death, some are already reborn, and some are outright destroyed. Still feasible for most races though.

The iron hands are very guilty of useing necromancy during the heresy, it's technological but it's still necromancy

Necron tech is... sorta close to Necromancy. They transferred their souls over to new bodies while their old bodies presumably died.

 Zaki66 wrote:
Necron tech is... sorta close to Necromancy. They transferred their souls over to new bodies while their old bodies presumably died.

Necronmancy?

Necromancy can be many things. I like my necromancy to be of the arcane variety, sort of like D&D, the "magically reanimated" kind as opposed to "the infected". Of course, not all magic has to be specifically aligned to a Chaos God, but they make an easy fit with Tzeentch and Nurgle, respectively. It really depends on what sort of necromancy you're looking for. However, the answer to the question "can it be done without Nurgle" is yes, even if you want plague-style zombies.

As for Eldar Wraiths, I don't really think of them as necromancy (even though they call it that). I suppose that "necromancy" can refer to any magic relating to souls/life/death. As it is fictional, the definition can be as broad or narrow as the setting permits. That, and what the Eldar call "necromancy" may not be considered as such by other magic-users.

The other thing to remember about the nature of magic in 40k is that it can basically do anything, provided adequate power behind it.

Strictly speaking Necomancy is talking to the dead.

Anything involving messing with the dead/reanimating the dead is more the necromancy trope.

Zombie plague w/Typhus

Soul traps for DE would be also, as trapping the soul = bad necro juju.

Wraithguard is reanimating the dead, at a remove. They are piloting new bodies, but are still dead. Storing them in the first place in the soul gems is necromancy too, of a sort.

DE Cronos are soul slurpers. DE topping off their souls with agony of others could be considered to be too.

In the ned, it depends on how you define necromancy.

Wasn't one of the Chaos Marines in Vraks a powerful necromancer where he basically raised zombies armies alone?

You also have Space Marine

 Zaki66 wrote:
Necron tech is... sorta close to Necromancy. They transferred their souls over to new bodies while their old bodies presumably died.

The Necron souls were devoured by the C'tan.

The Necron race is pretty much a high-tech version of Necromancy though.

Karloth Valois from Necromunda (lol) was able to control the undead with his mind, don't think he was actually capable of resurrecting the dead though, just controlling those zombies that remained after an outbreak in the underhive.

Also the recycling of corpses by the Tyranids could be considered a form of Necromancy.

 Sasori wrote:

The Necron souls were devoured by the C'tan.

The C'tan devoured their life-essence. They can't directly interact with the Warp (which souls are a part of).

MarsNZ wrote:Also the recycling of corpses by the Tyranids could be considered a form of Necromancy.

I'd disagree with this on the basis that all omnivores and carnivores do this to a lesser extent.

 Shadox wrote:
You also have Space Marine

Spoiler:

where the first Inquisitor was reanimated by the Chaos Forces. This shows that you don't need Nurgle for Necromancy as Nemeroth was unaligned.

Why are you spoiling the plot of a three year old game?

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

The Necron souls were devoured by the C'tan.

The C'tan devoured their life-essence. They can't directly interact with the Warp (which souls are a part of).

MarsNZ wrote:Also the recycling of corpses by the Tyranids could be considered a form of Necromancy.

I'd disagree with this on the basis that all omnivores and carnivores do this to a lesser extent.

Either way, it states quite explicitly on page 7, that the Necrons lost their souls.

 Sasori wrote:

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

The Necron souls were devoured by the C'tan.

The C'tan devoured their life-essence. They can't directly interact with the Warp (which souls are a part of).

MarsNZ wrote:Also the recycling of corpses by the Tyranids could be considered a form of Necromancy.

I'd disagree with this on the basis that all omnivores and carnivores do this to a lesser extent.

Either way, it states quite explicitly on page 7, that the Necrons lost their souls.

Would help if we also had a definition of a soul in W40K. The fluff can't seem to make up its mind if it's just a connection to the warp, or an actual soul in the religious sense. Because if it's the western definition of a soul, I really don't see how the hell the Necrons are going to get it back by occupying organic bodies.

 Sasori wrote:

Either way, it states quite explicitly on page 7, that the Necrons lost their souls.

Which the Silent King believes they can regain by reoccupying organic bodies.

Wyzilla wrote:Would help if we also had a definition of a soul in W40K. The fluff can't seem to make up its mind if it's just a connection to the warp, or an actual soul in the religious sense. Because if it's the western definition of a soul, I really don't see how the hell the Necrons are going to get it back by occupying organic bodies.

Isn't it generally the reflection the person has in the Warp? Which even Tau and Necrontyr (if I recall correctly) were supposed to have? It's an incredibly small connection but it's there. Blanks would also have connection just in a different way.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

The Necron souls were devoured by the C'tan.

The C'tan devoured their life-essence. They can't directly interact with the Warp (which souls are a part of).

Your information is a tad dated. The Tome of Fate, The Outer Reach and Hand of Corruption the C'tan are outright stated to have devoured the souls of the Necrontyr. "Life force" or "Life essence" is also used interchangeably with souls in places like Codex Dark Eldar, the Crimson Slaughter Supplement and even the rule book. Beyond that we've seen the C'tan hack into the webway, traditionally the purview of powerful sorcerers such as Ahriman, Magnus or the Emperor and we've even had Cypher fight a C'tan within the Warp.