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So just another test list trying to fit in Draigo and Paladins into 7th, any ideas would be helpful

HQ-
Draigo - 275 pts

Librarian - 210 pts (level 3, force sword (mc), psy ammo)

Troops -

Paladins x5 - 315 pts (halberds x3, hammer x2, psycannon x2)

GKSS x10 - 240 pts (psycannon x2, sword x8, psy ammo)

GKSS x6 - 180 pts (psycannon x1, swords x5, Razorback with heavy bolter & psybolt)

Fast attack -

Stormraven - 255 pts (Melta, AC, Hurricane, psy ammo)

Knight Paladin - 375 pts

Mainly a mini draigo ball with draigo fishing for precog, librarian rolling sanctic.

I'm running a Mini Driagowing currently. I'm not sold on the Libby personally yet. Its a 50:50 to be really worth it and he costs ~200pts.

Unless you are running the big GKSS squad in the Raven drop them for a Purifiers in a Rhino or Interceptors. Or GKSS in another Psyback. You can then spend the extra points on a Solodin. Or alternatively you can just drop the GKSS for a PT HI Dreadknight. With Grand Strategy you can just make the Purifiers, Dreadknight, or the Interceptors Objective Secured.

Run swords on the three Paladins, if you get Fortune with Driago or Sanctuary with the Libby it nets them a 3++ in CC and a 2++ if you get lucky enough to get both.

I would drop the psybolt from the libby, and maybe un master craft the sword to sneak a hammer into the GKSS. Or, give both sarges halbreds. Or, take a couple of servo skulls. All good choices

Probably will give the justicars halberds instead

@Zag: Dont like solodins, GKSS is hoofing it, probably combat squadding with one squad deep striking. Havent had much luck with dreadknights, too much of a point soak

And Draigo can roll on eldar powers now?

Editz:

HQ - Draigo 275 pts

Librarian - 235 pts (Level 3, warding stave)

Troops -

Paladins x5 - 315 pts (halberds x3, hammer x2, psycannon x2)

GKSS x6 - 180 pts (psycannon x1, swords x5, Razorback with heavy bolter & psybolt)

GKSS x6 - 180 pts (psycannon x1, swords x5, Razorback with heavy bolter & psybolt)

Fast attack -

Stormraven - 255 pts (Melta, AC, Hurricane, psy ammo)

Knight Paladin - 375 pts

Got a spare 35 points now, not sure where to put them.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Probably will give the justicars halberds instead

@Zag: Dont like solodins, GKSS is hoofing it, probably combat squadding with one squad deep striking. Havent had much luck with dreadknights, too much of a point soak

And Draigo can roll on eldar powers now?

Editz:

HQ - Draigo 275 pts

Librarian - 235 pts (Level 3, warding stave)

Troops -

Paladins x5 - 315 pts (halberds x3, hammer x2, psycannon x2)

GKSS x6 - 180 pts (psycannon x1, swords x5, Razorback with heavy bolter & psybolt)

GKSS x6 - 180 pts (psycannon x1, swords x5, Razorback with heavy bolter & psybolt)

Fast attack -

Stormraven - 255 pts (Melta, AC, Hurricane, psy ammo)

Knight Paladin - 375 pts

Got a spare 35 points now, not sure where to put them.

Sorry about that, obviously meant to write Forewarning, not Fortune.

List does look better. I'm not sold on the Warding Stave on the Librarian. The unit is already pretty solid in CC with potential for different resiliency buffs. If you drop the Warding Stave it gives you 70pts to work with. I know you don't like the Solodin, but picking one up and putting him in the Storm Raven or DSing him for harassment and Objective Secured Scoring can't be underestimated. Either way you can put Hammers on your Justicars, its nice to have the extra punch. Master Crafting the Psycannons for your Paladins is always a good investment. Takes some of the Pressure off of needing Precience every turn.

I am a fan of Dreadknights, I used them a ton to great effect even in competitive play with PT/HI/GS in 5th. Didn't play Gk that much in 6th, but they still served me well. So far in 7th I've been running them with just HIs, 480pts for 3 2+/5++ MCs with a S6/AP4 Torrent Flamers and 5S10 AP2 attacks on the Charge is actually a really good deal. Of course I try and make as many as possible Objective Secured.

Yea the Knight is in place of DK's. Ive found my knight to be much more resilient and shooty and stompy in CC than a couple DKs.

The warding stave though, maybe drop, though i like that little extra resilience incase my power rolls sucks

 Zagman wrote:

Run swords on the three Paladins, if you get Fortune with Driago or Sanctuary with the Libby it nets them a 3++ in CC and a 2++ if you get lucky enough to get both.

I don't believe they would get the 2++, because the BRB says a unit can only benefit from a unique blessing once, so it doesn't stack. So it would be 3++, which is still good.

Unless you're talking Forewarning and Sanctuary.

 invisiblade wrote:

 Zagman wrote:

Run swords on the three Paladins, if you get Fortune with Driago or Sanctuary with the Libby it nets them a 3++ in CC and a 2++ if you get lucky enough to get both.

I don't believe they would get the 2++, because the BRB says a unit can only benefit from a unique blessing once, so it doesn't stack. So it would be 3++, which is still good.

Unless you're talking Forewarning and Sanctuary.

Where was the Double up? 5++ Base, 4++ Forewarning(Not Fortune), 3++ with Sanctuary, 2++ with the Sword in CC only? The squad benefits from a Unique blessing only once and is completely legal.

Well, I'd drop the Knight for two Dreadknights w/ teleporter, heavy incinerator.

Tried it out yesterday, went pretty well, other than the 6 man squads, the only wounds anything else took was for me perling absurd amounts on draigo and the librarian.

Though them's the breaks, the guy was running 5 rhinos with 10 marines in them each spam, killed about 30 marines or so and 3 rhinos

He killed my 2 razors and about 10 marines.

And I'll be keeping the Knight, way more durable than Dreadknights and shooty, and stompy and all that good stuff.

Funny enough did get forewarning on Draigo and Sanctuary on the Librarian.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Tried it out yesterday, went pretty well, other than the 6 man squads, the only wounds anything else took was for me perling absurd amounts on draigo and the librarian.

Though them's the breaks, the guy was running 5 rhinos with 10 marines in them each spam, killed about 30 marines or so and 3 rhinos

He killed my 2 razors and about 10 marines.

And I'll be keeping the Knight, way more durable than Dreadknights and shooty, and stompy and all that good stuff.

Funny enough did get forewarning on Draigo and Sanctuary on the Librarian.

How did you play periling for a Psyker IC attached to a Brotherhood of Psykers? RAW the unit casts and knows all of the powers and Perils is randomized among the unit as a whole and isn't on the Psyker who cast it. Same thing you would do if the Paladins Periled casting Hammerhand.

Its the whole IC rule about counting as part of the unit for all rules purposes.

Hmm that sounds complicated, I just took it on who knew the power.

Funny enough also rolled FNP as WL trait on Draigo as well.

Random peril allocation would have been odd.

 Zagman wrote:


How did you play periling for a Psyker IC attached to a Brotherhood of Psykers? RAW the unit casts and knows all of the powers and Perils is randomized among the unit as a whole and isn't on the Psyker who cast it. Same thing you would do if the Paladins Periled casting Hammerhand.

Its the whole IC rule about counting as part of the unit for all rules purposes.

But Draigo and the Librarian wouldn't be part of the Brotherhood of Psykers so that wouldn't apply if they were attached. If that was the case, you wouldn't be able to use multiple powers because it says it's based on the unit's ML which is 1. If a Psyker who does not have the "Brotherhood of Psykers" USR perils, he takes the wound himself.

Warmonger2757 wrote:

 Zagman wrote:


How did you play periling for a Psyker IC attached to a Brotherhood of Psykers? RAW the unit casts and knows all of the powers and Perils is randomized among the unit as a whole and isn't on the Psyker who cast it. Same thing you would do if the Paladins Periled casting Hammerhand.

Its the whole IC rule about counting as part of the unit for all rules purposes.

But Draigo and the Librarian wouldn't be part of the Brotherhood of Psykers so that wouldn't apply if they were attached. If that was the case, you wouldn't be able to use multiple powers because it says it's based on the unit's ML which is 1. If a Psyker who does not have the "Brotherhood of Psykers" USR perils, he takes the wound himself.

Please support that with a rules quote.

Brotherhood of Psykers
"If this unit suffers Perils of the Warp, or is hit by an attack that specifically targets Psykers, the hits are Randomly Allocated amongst models with the Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerers special rule."

Independent Character
"While an Independent Character is part of a unit, e counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes, though he still follows the rules for characters."

Perils of the Warp
"If a unit suffers Perils of the Warp, roll a D6 and consult the Perils of the Warp table below. If the unit has the Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerers special rule, the effect of the Perils of the Warp result apply to a randomly determined model in the unit who has the Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerers special rule."


It is weird, because the IC doesn't gain BoP/S, so if he perils the unit has perils and it gets randomized to a BoP/S model. Its weird, but that is the RAW of it currently.

 Zagman wrote:

Warmonger2757 wrote:

 Zagman wrote:


How did you play periling for a Psyker IC attached to a Brotherhood of Psykers? RAW the unit casts and knows all of the powers and Perils is randomized among the unit as a whole and isn't on the Psyker who cast it. Same thing you would do if the Paladins Periled casting Hammerhand.

Its the whole IC rule about counting as part of the unit for all rules purposes.

But Draigo and the Librarian wouldn't be part of the Brotherhood of Psykers so that wouldn't apply if they were attached. If that was the case, you wouldn't be able to use multiple powers because it says it's based on the unit's ML which is 1. If a Psyker who does not have the "Brotherhood of Psykers" USR perils, he takes the wound himself.

Please support that with a rules quote.

Brotherhood of Psykers
"If this unit suffers Perils of the Warp, or is hit by an attack that specifically targets Psykers, the hits are Randomly Allocated amongst models with the Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerers special rule."

Independent Character
"While an Independent Character is part of a unit, e counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes, though he still follows the rules for characters."

Perils of the Warp
"If a unit suffers Perils of the Warp, roll a D6 and consult the Perils of the Warp table below. If the unit has the Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerers special rule, the effect of the Perils of the Warp result apply to a randomly determined model in the unit who has the Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerers special rule."


It is weird, because the IC doesn't gain BoP/S, so if he perils the unit has perils and it gets randomized to a BoP/S model. Its weird, but that is the RAW of it currently.

Hi, this isnt YMDC, I dont have to justify how i played a game at my local store to you. Please leave now

Nor do I agree with that YMDC thread.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 Zagman wrote:

Warmonger2757 wrote:

 Zagman wrote:


How did you play periling for a Psyker IC attached to a Brotherhood of Psykers? RAW the unit casts and knows all of the powers and Perils is randomized among the unit as a whole and isn't on the Psyker who cast it. Same thing you would do if the Paladins Periled casting Hammerhand.

Its the whole IC rule about counting as part of the unit for all rules purposes.

But Draigo and the Librarian wouldn't be part of the Brotherhood of Psykers so that wouldn't apply if they were attached. If that was the case, you wouldn't be able to use multiple powers because it says it's based on the unit's ML which is 1. If a Psyker who does not have the "Brotherhood of Psykers" USR perils, he takes the wound himself.

Please support that with a rules quote.

Brotherhood of Psykers
"If this unit suffers Perils of the Warp, or is hit by an attack that specifically targets Psykers, the hits are Randomly Allocated amongst models with the Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerers special rule."

Independent Character
"While an Independent Character is part of a unit, e counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes, though he still follows the rules for characters."

Perils of the Warp
"If a unit suffers Perils of the Warp, roll a D6 and consult the Perils of the Warp table below. If the unit has the Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerers special rule, the effect of the Perils of the Warp result apply to a randomly determined model in the unit who has the Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerers special rule."


It is weird, because the IC doesn't gain BoP/S, so if he perils the unit has perils and it gets randomized to a BoP/S model. Its weird, but that is the RAW of it currently.

Hi, this isnt YMDC, I dont have to justify how i played a game at my local store to you. Please leave now

Nor do I agree with that YMDC thread.

Dude, chill out. I am not attacking you or how you played that game. I was curious to how you played it.

Someone else, the person I was responding to, pushed the issue. I had no intention whatsoever of replying to how you played the game.

But he brought up the rules, and was very wrong with no rules support. It would have been irresponsible not to correct that problem with facts.


I will not leave, I will continue to reply as I see fit as this is an open forum. You have no right to tell me to leave, especially when you were in the wrong. I did not respond to you, nor criticize how you played it. I was responding to someone else who is severely mistaken on how the rules read. If you don't like what I have to say, you don't have to read my posts.

 Zagman wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 Zagman wrote:

Warmonger2757 wrote:

 Zagman wrote:


How did you play periling for a Psyker IC attached to a Brotherhood of Psykers? RAW the unit casts and knows all of the powers and Perils is randomized among the unit as a whole and isn't on the Psyker who cast it. Same thing you would do if the Paladins Periled casting Hammerhand.

Its the whole IC rule about counting as part of the unit for all rules purposes.

But Draigo and the Librarian wouldn't be part of the Brotherhood of Psykers so that wouldn't apply if they were attached. If that was the case, you wouldn't be able to use multiple powers because it says it's based on the unit's ML which is 1. If a Psyker who does not have the "Brotherhood of Psykers" USR perils, he takes the wound himself.

Please support that with a rules quote.

Brotherhood of Psykers
"If this unit suffers Perils of the Warp, or is hit by an attack that specifically targets Psykers, the hits are Randomly Allocated amongst models with the Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerers special rule."

Independent Character
"While an Independent Character is part of a unit, e counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes, though he still follows the rules for characters."

Perils of the Warp
"If a unit suffers Perils of the Warp, roll a D6 and consult the Perils of the Warp table below. If the unit has the Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerers special rule, the effect of the Perils of the Warp result apply to a randomly determined model in the unit who has the Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerers special rule."


It is weird, because the IC doesn't gain BoP/S, so if he perils the unit has perils and it gets randomized to a BoP/S model. Its weird, but that is the RAW of it currently.

Hi, this isnt YMDC, I dont have to justify how i played a game at my local store to you. Please leave now

Nor do I agree with that YMDC thread.

Dude, chill out. I am not attacking you or how you played that game. I was curious to how you played it.

Someone else, the person I was responding to, pushed the issue. I had no intention whatsoever of replying to how you played the game.

But he brought up the rules, and was very wrong with no rules support. It would have been irresponsible not to correct that problem with facts.


I will not leave, I will continue to reply as I see fit as this is an open forum. You have no right to tell me to leave, especially when you were in the wrong. I did not respond to you, nor criticize how you played it. I was responding to someone else who is severely mistaken on how the rules read. If you don't like what I have to say, you don't have to read my posts.

The YMDC thread on this issue wasnt clear cut, nor was there consensus. Nor is YMDC actually RAW, its peoples interpretations of rules. He can play the rules how he believes them to be played, which I agree with.

This is my last reply to you.

While this isn't YMDC, rules questions inevitably will arise a bit during army list threads from time to time. That said, after a few replies from both parties--let's keep the more intense discussion of a particular rule in the appropriate forum and let the OP's thread center on his build. Thanks,

Ryan

I didn't read the YMDC as many if the threads there devolve into uselessness.

I simply read the applicable rules. I know there is confusion so I asked how you played it. I was not judging and was happy to leave it at that.

But then someone replied with false information on what I felt to be a very poor understanding of the applicable rules. It had nothing to do with you nor how you played the situation..

But since you opened that can of worms, how you played it was in fact wrong, or at the least willfully ignoring most of the applicable rules through artificial separation. Playing it the way you did is in clear violation of many explicit rules. The RAW handling for a Perils is clear in that case, it's the other parts of Psykers and Psyker units which gets sticky, mainly Warp charge Generation and maintaining Seperate Master Levels as ML and BoP/S are nontransferable. Units Cast, Units Perils, the rules tell us how to handle a perils in a BoP/S unit. That simple and is part of the RAW chain that is clear.

I didn't care how you played it, but now that I know you are willfully ignoring blatant rules....


Edit: Got beat by the MOD. Fair enough.

Did you really find the Knight that good? Is he not surely too slow? And people able to simply avoid combat with him which seems to be his greatest asset?

Yea he kills his points worth every time i run him. And a 12 inch move every turn isnt that slow

He gets a 12" move? I must have missed that part...

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
He gets a 12" move? I must have missed that part...

Super-Heavy walkers can move 12 inches in the movement phase

Due to the new vehicle rules, debating swapping out the Paladin for the Errant.