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So I was packing up my 40k stuff in preparation for my move and I stumbled across my army of Ultramarines. I put them away last edition as my main opponent was Tau, so you can imagine how those games went. I have not played them in 7th as I started my 2nd favorite army (Eldar), but I have an urge to pick them up again. Before I do, I was curious for other's experience with them in 7th. My question is simple: with the changes in 7th, can they compete with likes of Tau and Eldar?

Here are the items I can see in the Ultramarines favor:

AV 14 being tough for Tau to crack
Drop Pods being able to land and fire missile launchers
Everything scores

What do you all think? Are their some builds/advantages that are competitive for those power factions?

There was another thread on how competitive Ultras are, fell to page two.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/596802.page

Some good ideas there.

I've been playing ultramarines through 6th and so far have enjoyed a few games of 7th and I think we've gotta good chance went against a demon list with 12 warp charge I run tigirius with grav centurions and he couldn't cast any spells all game and I had a great game against a skyblight tyranid force. Lucky draw on mysterious objectives gave me sky fire so i had telion on quad gun hittng the nasty fmc on 2+ rerolling and my warlord which is. Chapter master on a bike wth combi grav and 4 grav gun command squad with apothecary we're shooting grav guns with sky fire. Won that game 9-4 I'm enjoying my ultramarines I'll post a full list up soon

Thanks for the link. I must have searched the wrong terms as this did not come up.

So I read the link attached and it gave me some good insight on how people view the boys in blue. Now I am looking at some list ideas against a pure Tau army. I was thinking drop pods, but Tau have a counter to that with interceptor. Foot slogging seems like a bad idea as Tau have a larger killzone. The points we play at currently is 1250.

 Havok210 wrote:
So I read the link attached and it gave me some good insight on how people view the boys in blue. Now I am looking at some list ideas against a pure Tau army. I was thinking drop pods, but Tau have a counter to that with interceptor. Foot slogging seems like a bad idea as Tau have a larger killzone. The points we play at currently is 1250.

against tau i would use bikes, and see if there is a way to scout or outflank them
But hey im a crackpot I.G. player

The problem with bikes v Tau is that they have so much S5-7 shooting that you aren't much harder to wound than regular marines, and they can Ignore Cover with whatever AP2-3 shooting they have. So you die just as easy, but each death hurts more.

Because of the Interceptor fire, I'd say that Rhino rush is a better bet than pods.

Does Tau have interceptor on a gun that fires ground targets?

Don't forget that interceptor only allows you to fire at targets that come from reserves.

So if it's a interceptor skyfire weapon it's only firing at air units coming from reserves

 tomjoad wrote:
The problem with bikes v Tau is that they have so much S5-7 shooting that you aren't much harder to wound than regular marines, and they can Ignore Cover with whatever AP2-3 shooting they have. So you die just as easy, but each death hurts more.

Because of the Interceptor fire, I'd say that Rhino rush is a better bet than pods.

Obviously YMMV, but as a pod player, I've yet to see enough Interceptor fire to make me question pods. It's honestly fairly rare, and even then it isn't that hard to mitigate/avoid. I think pod armies got the juicy half of the steak in this edition personally. (That being said, bikes are still strong contenders.)

They get to choose if they are skyfire or not for that turn I believe, not sure on the wording.

However the answer to intercepter fire is combat squads and spreading out. Just eat the first shot on one unit per riptide and just focus on everything else. Buys you a turn of freedom.

 Jimsolo wrote:

 tomjoad wrote:
The problem with bikes v Tau is that they have so much S5-7 shooting that you aren't much harder to wound than regular marines, and they can Ignore Cover with whatever AP2-3 shooting they have. So you die just as easy, but each death hurts more.

Because of the Interceptor fire, I'd say that Rhino rush is a better bet than pods.

Obviously YMMV, but as a pod player, I've yet to see enough Interceptor fire to make me question pods. It's honestly fairly rare, and even then it isn't that hard to mitigate/avoid. I think pod armies got the juicy half of the steak in this edition personally. (That being said, bikes are still strong contenders.)

Yeah, you're right. No Tau players really bring enough Interceptor to put off a dedicated pod list. I was typing in too much of a rush before; it's only really devastating against 1-3 pod lists where a single Riptide or Broadside pack can wreck you.

The reason I prefer rhinos anyway is that they add a ton of utility that pods can't give you. The rhino soaks up at least one unit's shooting while your marines are snug as a bug inside it. Then, since Tau have relatively few ways to explode a tank, you'll have a nice piece of terrain to hide your combat squads behind. So, drive up 18", turn sideways, get exploded, block LoS to your Objective Secured units; THAT is why I personally prefer the rhino rush.

How has the Rhino rush been working for you in 7th? I loved it in 5th, took a break for 6th. Unsure of it now?

Frankly, I haven't had time to play a game of 7th with my marines yet (focused on Guard lately). But, I used the rhinos in 6th a lot and found them to be much better than they were given credit for. With the changes to vehicle durability (the fact that they'll rare explode means a LOT for transports) I am comfortable theorizing that rhino rush will be better than before. Pods are strong, but I know that, for me, rhinos will give me the best chance to win.

I would not want to face a Marneus Calgar with a full dedicated drop podding army backed up by TH/SS and those flying things the name of which I forget.

The fact that you can now put your entire army in reserve now, is like bonkers. Unless facing someone else that is also Deep Striking you'll hit them every single time.

I was contemplating using Stalkers in my list. With vehicles being a little tougher in 7th, I was thinking they could be useful due to their range and rate of fire. Thoughts?

 Havok210 wrote:
I was contemplating using Stalkers in my list. With vehicles being a little tougher in 7th, I was thinking they could be useful due to their range and rate of fire. Thoughts?

The only real problem with the AA tanks was the HS slot they ate, and the fact that they couldn’t shoot at ground targets very well. Now that no skyfire guns can shoot well at anything with mud on it, they are not alone with that drawback. The changes to army construction help with the other point as well.

So go for it.

Yea, its looking like double cad is going to be partially the standard for tournaments.

I say go for it

So, here is a sample list I was thinking about running. Let me know what you think:

Tigurius

Tactical marines × 9 w/ Grav Gun. Drop Pod w/death wind missile launcher

Tactical marines × 9 w/ Grav Gun. Drop Pod w/death wind missile launcher

Tactical marines × 9 w/ Grav Gun. Drop Pod w/death wind missile launcher

Tactical marines × 7. Drop Pod w/death wind missile launcher

Thunder fire Cannon. Drop Pod w/death wind missile launcher

Thunder fire Cannon. Drop Pod w/death wind missile launcher

That puts it at 1242 for a 1250 game.

I think that would do well, I would swap in some plasmas and meltas in there too

Grav on non relentless is pretty worthless. If you are going marines in pods its either 5 with combi and special or 10 with combi special and heavy. Otherwise you are wasting more points on marine bodies.

So yup, 3 pods of 10 one of 5 + Tiggy.

Also not sure the Deathwind is worth it on all the pods.

1,500 on the nose

Tigurius
3 assault squads in pods each has 5 men and 2 flamers
5 Tac squads in pods each has 10 men plasma, combi plas, and multimelta


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think the double flamer assault squad is one of more under rated units especially in a pod list.

 tomjoad wrote:
Frankly, I haven't had time to play a game of 7th with my marines yet (focused on Guard lately). But, I used the rhinos in 6th a lot and found them to be much better than they were given credit for. With the changes to vehicle durability (the fact that they'll rare explode means a LOT for transports) I am comfortable theorizing that rhino rush will be better than before. Pods are strong, but I know that, for me, rhinos will give me the best chance to win.

Sigh.. And the Chimera gets smushed into the dirt again.
DAMN YOU LACK OF FIRE POINTS AND 10 POINT INCREASE!!
DAMN YOUUUU!!!

Tigurius

Tactical marines × 9 w/ Grav Gun. Drop Pod w/death wind missile launcher

Tactical marines × 9 w/ Grav Gun. Drop Pod w/death wind missile launcher

Tactical marines × 9 w/ Grav Gun. Drop Pod w/death wind missile launcher

Tactical marines × 7. Drop Pod w/death wind missile launcher

Thunder fire Cannon. Drop Pod w/death wind missile launcher

Thunder fire Cannon. Drop Pod w/death wind missile launcher

That puts it at 1242 for a 1250 game.

I would drop the two pods from the thunder fires and all deathwinds and two sets of grav guns. Replace one set with meltas the other with flamers. With the 180+ points saved Id add a fifth Tact squad in a pod.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 tomjoad wrote:
Frankly, I haven't had time to play a game of 7th with my marines yet (focused on Guard lately). But, I used the rhinos in 6th a lot and found them to be much better than they were given credit for. With the changes to vehicle durability (the fact that they'll rare explode means a LOT for transports) I am comfortable theorizing that rhino rush will be better than before. Pods are strong, but I know that, for me, rhinos will give me the best chance to win.

Sigh.. And the Chimera gets smushed into the dirt again.
DAMN YOU LACK OF FIRE POINTS AND 10 POINT INCREASE!!
DAMN YOUUUU!!!

REally, I thin kit is generally considerd to have improved, and it does have 2 firepoints.

Yea, two fire points, being able to target 4 different units a turn, very mobile and pretty good armor.

Chimera is still really good for its points. I am trying to get them instead of taurox right now thats for sure.

So many great ideas! I picked up a Sterngard Vet squad. Thinking of adding them to the list to tackle that hard to kill target with special ammunition.

So, here is a sample list I was thinking about running vs Tau. Let me know what you think:

Tigurius

Tactical marines × 9 w/ Plasma and a Sergeant. Drop Pod w/death wind missile launcher

Tactical marines × 9 w/ Plasma and a Sergeant. Drop Pod w/death wind missile launcher

Tactical marines × 9 w/ Plasma and a Sergeant. Drop Pod w/death wind missile launcher

Sterngard Veteran x 5 w/ 2 combi meltas and 2 combi plasmas. Drop Pod.

Thunder fire Cannon. Drop Pod.

Thunder fire Cannon. Drop Pod.

That puts it at 1245 for a 1250 game.

My opponent normally runs some combination of the following:

1 or 2 Riptides

Crisis suits

Broadsides

Sky Ray with 6 missiles and marker lights

Marker drones

1 or 2 devil fish transports with fire warriors.