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If you can't attempt to cast the same power twice in the same unit, can you cast the alternate side of the same power in the same unit for runes of battle?

ie Conceal/Reveal Can Warlock A cast Conceal, and then Warlock B cast Reveal?

I'm pretty sure that they are considered separate powers for all intents and purposes.

I have always read them as two separate powers. So A spiritseer (ML 2) will have 6 powers, if he rolls twice on Runes of Battle. (Both sides of both rolls, and both sides of the primaris.)

The Runes of Battle say 2 abilities for the one power, and to choose before rolling the test.

 megatrons2nd wrote:
The Runes of Battle say 2 abilities for the one power, and to choose before rolling the test.

For me they aren't different powers.

When using one of these psychic powers, choose which ability the psyker is attempting to use before making the psychic test

ability != psychic power. When a warlock tries to cast Enhance, Drain is the same power, but with a different ability. If they were different psychic powers, they'd have separate entries, with Warp Charge cost for each.

 megatrons2nd wrote:
The Runes of Battle say 2 abilities for the one power, and to choose before rolling the test.

I concur. The wording is "when using one of these [runes of battle] psychic powers, choose which ability the pskyer is attempting to use before making the psychic test." Therefore, regardless of the ability picked, I can only use that paired power once.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To follow on, yes warlock A may conceal and then warlock B may reveal because that is separate psykers using their powers. After which, neither warlock may attempt to conceal or reveal again that turn.

Dessorag wrote:
To follow on, yes warlock A may conceal and then warlock B may reveal because that is separate psykers using their powers.

Separate psykers, but the same unit.

From the rulebook, 'Manifesting Psychic Powers'
"...but no unit can attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once per Psychic phase."

 insaniak wrote:

Dessorag wrote:
To follow on, yes warlock A may conceal and then warlock B may reveal because that is separate psykers using their powers.

Separate psykers, but the same unit.

From the rulebook, 'Manifesting Psychic Powers'
"...but no unit can attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once per Psychic phase."

I missed this the first time I read it, yes, this is true. I also dislike this rule because it interferes with my psychic council in Apoc. Oh well. I would also suggest that warlock A and guardians A are a separate unit from warlock B and guardians B if they are deployed in this manner. Both warlocks could conceal or reveal then.

Yes, if warlock A and warlock B are part of guardian units and not still together as a council unit, they can both cast the same power on the same turn. But if they are in the same unit, as written, only one of them can try to use the power per turn.

The only question is this: Is Conceal a power and Reveal another power, and you just get 2 for one roll on the power chart? Or is Conceal/Reveal a single power, and you just pick which side to use when you cast it? It's clear to me that the distinction is not clear at all.

HIWPI is that they are two separate powers, but the opposite is just as valid without a FAQ.

Which is why I asked this question.

I however read it as 1 power with 2 abilities.

without knowing the wording, if it says "choose which one before taking the test" or something to that affect then it is 1 power that can have multiple effect RaW all that matters.

If it were 2 seperate powers it would have 2 seperate entries not one with 2 different effects

It is one power with two different effects.

 insaniak wrote:

Dessorag wrote:
To follow on, yes warlock A may conceal and then warlock B may reveal because that is separate psykers using their powers.

Separate psykers, but the same unit.

From the rulebook, 'Manifesting Psychic Powers'
"...but no unit can attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once per Psychic phase."

And, if we go with that interpretation, then they would both together only generate a single WC, since both have the same special rule, "Psyker (Mastery Level 1)" and special rules don't stack.

Neither the RAI nor the RAW is absolutely clear in this situation, IMO. Talk to your opponent before the game about what you think is fair. Click the link in my sig to see what I think is fair.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

Dessorag wrote:
To follow on, yes warlock A may conceal and then warlock B may reveal because that is separate psykers using their powers.

Separate psykers, but the same unit.

From the rulebook, 'Manifesting Psychic Powers'
"...but no unit can attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once per Psychic phase."

And, if we go with that interpretation, then they would both together only generate a single WC, since both have the same special rule, "Psyker (Mastery Level 1)" and special rules don't stack.

Neither the RAI nor the RAW is absolutely clear in this situation, IMO. Talk to your opponent before the game about what you think is fair. Click the link in my sig to see what I think is fair.

Also, in this case, Is the unit casting the power? Or is it the Warlock?

 extremefreak17 wrote:
Also, in this case, Is the unit casting the power? Or is it the Warlock?

Psychic powers are cast by psyker units.

 insaniak wrote:

 extremefreak17 wrote:
Also, in this case, Is the unit casting the power? Or is it the Warlock?

Psychic powers are cast by psyker units.

Right, which leads back to this thread!
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/597510.page

Which was kind of my point.