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On page 98, the BRB states "Once per game, instead of shooting or moving Flat Out... a vehicle with smoke launchers can trigger them". Does this mean that I am technically allowed to pop smoke during my opponent's turn instead of mine (like during their Psychic phase), therefore getting around the cost of not being able to fire weapons?

Virtus wrote:
On page 98, the BRB states "Once per game, instead of shooting or moving Flat Out... a vehicle with smoke launchers can trigger them". Does this mean that I am technically allowed to pop smoke during my opponent's turn instead of mine (like during their Psychic phase), therefore getting around the cost of not being able to fire weapons?

No, you do it when you would shoot or move flat out.

sonicaucie wrote:

Virtus wrote:
On page 98, the BRB states "Once per game, instead of shooting or moving Flat Out... a vehicle with smoke launchers can trigger them". Does this mean that I am technically allowed to pop smoke during my opponent's turn instead of mine (like during their Psychic phase), therefore getting around the cost of not being able to fire weapons?

No, you do it when you would shoot or move flat out.

How come it doesn't say "on your turn" anywhere?

Do you normally shoot or flat out on your opponents turn?

To put it another way, if a rule grants you the ability to replace one action with another, then you must be allowed to perform the original action that is being replaced.

Since you are not allowed to shoot or move Flat Out during your opponents turn, you are not allowed to use Smoke Launchers either.

DoW

 DogOfWar wrote:
To put it another way, if a rule grants you the ability to replace one action with another, then you must be allowed to perform the original action that is being replaced.

Oh ok. The way I was interpreting the rule was that if I were to pop smoke on my turn, then I can't shoot or move Flat Out, and if I did it on my opponent's turn, then I would have no penalty. Thanks for the clarification. Is there a note somewhere that states what you posted?

Virtus wrote:

 DogOfWar wrote:
To put it another way, if a rule grants you the ability to replace one action with another, then you must be allowed to perform the original action that is being replaced.

Oh ok. The way I was interpreting the rule was that if I were to pop smoke on my turn, then I can't shoot or move Flat Out, and if I did it on my opponent's turn, then I would have no penalty. Thanks for the clarification. Is there a note somewhere that states what you posted?

Unfortunately no, but (and please don't take this the wrong way) that's because it would be an unnecessary note to make.

You are never allowed to do anything on your opponents turn unless you are given explicit permission to do so. This is one of the fundamental rules of the game. Smoke Launchers do not have any special rules that allow them to be used during your opponents turn so you cannot do so.

If you find yourself running into situations like this quite often, it's important to remember that 40k is what some people refer to as a "permissive ruleset." This means that in order to do something in the game, there has to be a rule that says you can. It's incorrect to say "there isn't a rule that says I can't, so therefore I can!" because that opens the door for all sorts of odd conclusions. One of the more infamous is, "There isn't a rule that says I can't smash your models with a hammer, so therefore it's legal to do in the game."

A somewhat extreme example, of course, but you get the idea. Hope that helps!

DoW

Gotchya.

I think a lot of my confusion stems from the fact that I'm reading the rules for the first time, and haven't actually played a game yet. Thanks for the help everyone!

Thats fine, remember these rules are excessively convoluted, and that the best way to learn is to play a game, with book in hand, looking everything up as you go. Like learning to drive certain things become automatic, leaving you brain space to puzzle over the really abstruse rules....

I wouldn't recommend reading the 'How to Drive' manual whilst actually driving though

Virtus wrote:
Gotchya.

I think a lot of my confusion stems from the fact that I'm reading the rules for the first time, and haven't actually played a game yet. Thanks for the help everyone!

No problem at all. You picked an excellent time to start playing as many players will be dealing with new rules and making sure that they're doing everything correctly. As nosferatu1001 said, the best way to learn is to jump in with both feet and play a game or two. If you can play with a friend who has a bit of experience that's all the better.

Good luck and Imperator Vincere!

DoW

Also keep in mind:
Even with experience players, no game ever goes past without someone needing to refer to the Rulebook.

JinxDragon wrote:
Also keep in mind:
Even with experience players, no game ever goes past without someone needing to refer to the Rulebook.

Especially as experienced players may be remembering rules from a previous edition. I know I'm still having issues with that, and I sincerely doubt that I am alone.

Absolutely

Made worse when they revisit rules from previous editions, as that makes the lines even more blurred - I currently have a mixture of 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th in my head.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Absolutely

Made worse when they revisit rules from previous editions, as that makes the lines even more blurred - I currently have a mixture of 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th in my head.

Not trying for one-upsman-ship but I go all the way back to third(as does one of my friends).

We still have to check every once in awhile about Rapid Fire(which long ago was Move and fire once to 12", Stand still and fire Once to full or twice to 12") in the current edition.

I have very hazy memories of 3rd, as I picked it up brielfy at the end of 6th form and didnt play much. 2nd has, thankfully, ,mostly gone, although the return of the psychic phase has me nostalgic...luckily the system was SO different it is much easier to split out.

DId you aalso in 3rd get to shoot once and still charge with Rapid fire? Gah, brain....

Intresting that the BRB states ' Models that shoot with Rapid fire weapons in the shooting phase cannot charge in the ensuing Assault phase'

Would one interpret this as saying .. no shooting at all or only when using the rapid fire ( half range) rule?

I think talk of previous editions should stop there, Tenets-wise too

 Solar_lion wrote:
Intresting that the BRB states ' Models that shoot with Rapid fire weapons in the shooting phase cannot charge in the ensuing Assault phase'

Would one interpret this as saying .. no shooting at all or only when using the rapid fire ( half range) rule?

Regardless of one shot or two shots, when you fire a rapid fire weapon you have still shot with a rapid fire weapon. So no assault if you shoot a rapid fire weapon, period.

And re the side discussion, I started in early 2nd ed. So this whole psychic phase thing is just reverting to a previous edition with some different mechanics as far as I'm concerned.

 Solar_lion wrote:
only when using the rapid fire ( half range) rule?

Rapid fire is the weapon type. Not a rule that lets you shoot twice.
no matter how many shots you make it's a Rapid Fire weapon.

Thanks for the help