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I might have missed this previously, but in the 7th ed. BRB it makes it pretty clear that each unit may only use one grenade per phase. Am I right in thinking that this has changed from 6th where, although you could only use one grenade per unit in the shooting phase, all models with grenades could use them in CC? Or was I playing that wrong in 6th and nothing's changed?

"Only on grenade (of any type) can be thrown by a unit per phase."

 pocketcanoe wrote:
I might have missed this previously, but in the 7th ed. BRB it makes it pretty clear that each unit may only use one grenade per phase. Am I right in thinking that this has changed from 6th where, although you could only use one grenade per unit in the shooting phase, all models with grenades could use them in CC? Or was I playing that wrong in 6th and nothing's changed?

"Only on grenade (of any type) can be thrown by a unit per phase."

Key word 'thrown' you only throw grenades in the shooting phase. In the assault phase any model equiped may substitute all it's attacks for one grenade attack.

Ok, so to quote the whole paragraph, to add context:

"Some grenades can be used to make shooting attacks or attacks in the Fight sub-phase, albeit to different effect. Only one grenade (of any type) can be thrown by a unit per phase."

The fact that they acknowledge that a grenade may be used in different ways in different phases and then go on to say that only one may be thrown per phase (not per shooting phase) makes the meaning pretty clear, doesn't it? I think clearer than arguing that they specifically meant 'thrown' to only refer to the shooting phase.

If you're going down that path, you could argue that no grenades may be used at all in the assault phase because the rules state that grenades may only be 'thrown' in each phase, and as the word 'attatch' was not specifically used, you can't use them.

Yopu can throw grenades as an Overwatch

Grenades in combt use the term "clamp", and have a melee profile when used against certain classes of enemy. As such there is specific permission to use them, following the melee rules.

 pocketcanoe wrote:
Ok, so to quote the whole paragraph, to add context:

"Some grenades can be used to make shooting attacks or attacks in the Fight sub-phase, albeit to different effect. Only one grenade (of any type) can be thrown by a unit per phase."

The fact that they acknowledge that a grenade may be used in different ways in different phases and then go on to say that only one may be thrown per phase (not per shooting phase) makes the meaning pretty clear, doesn't it? I think clearer than arguing that they specifically meant 'thrown' to only refer to the shooting phase.

If you're going down that path, you could argue that no grenades may be used at all in the assault phase because the rules state that grenades may only be 'thrown' in each phase, and as the word 'attatch' was not specifically used, you can't use them.

Shooting is not limited to the Owning player's Shooting Phase as Nos pointed out. The 'Per Phase' part is taking these out of normal sequence shooting attacks into account.

The confusing part is that they mentioned the fight sub phase just before the "one grenade per phase" qualification.

But later it does mention that grenades and clamped on during assault. So I would play it and interpret it as what it was in 6th.

So when using one in an assault, I'm assuming it loses any Blast profile it may have, so you don't hit your own units?

 Lobomalo wrote:
So when using one in an assault, I'm assuming it loses any Blast profile it may have, so you don't hit your own units?

look to the grenades section in the rule book. Its pretty clear what profile each type of grenade has in each phase. The section is close the back of the book right before the section called Terrain Datasheets

 Lobomalo wrote:
So when using one in an assault, I'm assuming it loses any Blast profile it may have, so you don't hit your own units?

I can only assume it hasn't changed in 7th, but in 6th, the only grenade (in the BRB) that had a blast and that could also be used against Vehicles and MCs in assault (Plasma) had a separate profile listed for the latter use.

 Lobomalo wrote:
So when using one in an assault, I'm assuming it loses any Blast profile it may have, so you don't hit your own units?

If using it in Melee, look in the rulebook to determine what profile you use for Melee

Think ofGrenades as like a pistol - a pistol has a shooting profile and a profile for melee. You use the correct one for each phase.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 Lobomalo wrote:
So when using one in an assault, I'm assuming it loses any Blast profile it may have, so you don't hit your own units?

If using it in Melee, look in the rulebook to determine what profile you use for Melee

Think ofGrenades as like a pistol - a pistol has a shooting profile and a profile for melee. You use the correct one for each phase.

I'll check it out, thanks.

In my head I was trying to picture using a grenade in CC without it blowing up on me lol

I always figured it looked a lot like that.

Oh wow I like that example.

I'm still not sure how many grenades you can use. It is specific in that only one grenade thrown per phase. I'm assuming that if you're assaulting someone, you're not letting grenades explode in your hand so you're throwing or clamping them in assault as well. If I can only throw one during the shooting phase, why can I throw 5 in assault (or however many models I have)?

Also I watched the video, they threw and clamped grenades in that video, please don't use that as an example since it contradicts the argument here.

Is it the word "throw" that is causing the confusion? If we changed that word to "use," the context completely changes. You "use" grenades when you "throw" them but you also "use" them in melee, I am going to assume by throwing them or clamping them. GW caused confusion on this by including flowery words in the description.

I wonder if GW FAQ'd this. Otherwise, haywire grenades are pretty much an autokill on vehicles in melee since you get no saves at all.

In the shooting phase, one model in the unit may "shoot" a grenade instead of firing it's regular weapon.

In assault, every model equipped with a grenade may use them to make a single attack in hth, assuming the rules allow that grenade to be used in that fashion. So my squad of 10 IG with Krak grenades can use them to make one attack apiece against a vehicle or Monstrous Creature.

Ok I have been searching the BRB and I don't see a rule to contradict what the OP said about one grenade per phase including the sub-fight phase. Is there wording that says that every model can use the grenade profile during the fight sub-phase? Otherwise I am inclined to believe that the one grenade thrown per phase includes the fight sub-phase.

Warmonger2757 wrote:
Ok I have been searching the BRB and I don't see a rule to contradict what the OP said about one grenade per phase including the sub-fight phase. Is there wording that says that every model can use the grenade profile during the fight sub-phase? Otherwise I am inclined to believe that the one grenade thrown per phase includes the fight sub-phase.

It's states only one can be thrown. You do not throw grenades in close combat, you use the melee profile of it to make cc attacks. This directly contradicts your ideas

Looking at it from another standpoint, if in the combat phase only one can use a grenade then why, when purchasing a grenade, would you have to purchase a grenade for each model, thats just a waste of points when only one model can ever use them; 5 wytches = 10 points of haywire nades, thus wasting 8 points on items that cannot ever be used - 8 points that could go elsewhere. Just a thought i just had.

I agree with the side of all models can use them in cc - 'throwing' is not 'clamping' and the two terms are very clearly different and both used referring to different parts of the game

It does explain how grenades work in melee in the grenade type description section.

The one that goes over Assault/Defensive/Melta bombs.

There are two sides to this argument, and to my knowledge, there has never been a definitive answer from GW. I'm going to break down the two sides as I see it. For clarity sake, the sides of the argument will be one per unit in melee (1/U) and one per MODEL (the whole unit can grenade) in melee (1/M).

1. 1/U - The sentence in the grenade section states that only one grenade can "be thrown by a unit per phase", whereas in 6th edition, the line specifically said "in the shooting phase" – The removal of the “in the shooting phase” line means that now in shooting and melee, only one grenade per unit.
2. 1/M - The bold face sentence states that only one grenade can be “thrown” by a unit – grenades are not “thrown” in melee but “clamped in place”, and the removal of the “in the shooting phase” was to prevent a unit from throwing a full squad’s worth of grenades during overwatch. One grenade thrown in shooting phase, one grenade thrown in overwatch, all grenades USED in melee.

My take on this, as much as I WANT it to mean that only one grenade can be used per UNIT per melee phase, is that every model in the unit, that has viable melee grenades, can use one in place of their standard melee attacks. I thought the “thrown vs. clamped” argument was nonsense. Yes, the “Vehicles, Gun Emplacements and/or Monstrous Creatures” section mentioned “Some grenades can be used against vehicles, gunemplacements… but have to be clamped in place…” but to me that meant “some grenades” had to be clamped, others were thrown in melee. Maybe Plasma grenades had to be clamped, but Krak grenades didn’t. I thought it was a fluff line. Then I scoured each and every line of the grenades section. Each and every grenade that can be used in the shooting phase has the line “…choose to throw a…” in the “Shooting” description. Proof that grenades are, indeed, thrown in the shooting phase. Looking at the assault section, there is no such reference that a unit or model can “choose to clamp” a grenade, BUT each grenade that can be used as a damage inflicting weapon in the assault phase (Plasma, Haywire, Krak, Melta) can only do so against vehicles, gun emplacements, or Monstrous Creatures, and they are all written identifying that and with the same language. It is not that some melee weapon grenades are clamped that is being stated, but that some grenades are melee weapons against vehicles, gun emplacements and/or Monstrous Creatures, and all of them must be clamped, hence not thrown. There are no damage-inflicting grenades that can be used in melee against anything that is not a vehicle, gun emplacement, and/or Monstrous Creature, therefore all damage-inflicting grenades, which are, indeed, SOME of the grenades, have to be clamped, therefore not thrown, and therefore not restricted by the “…can be thrown by a unit per phase” rule.

Vraneth wrote:
Looking at it from another standpoint, if in the combat phase only one can use a grenade then why, when purchasing a grenade, would you have to purchase a grenade for each model, thats just a waste of points when only one model can ever use them; 5 wytches = 10 points of haywire nades, thus wasting 8 points on items that cannot ever be used - 8 points that could go elsewhere. Just a thought i just had.

I agree with the side of all models can use them in cc - 'throwing' is not 'clamping' and the two terms are very clearly different and both used referring to different parts of the game

Not rules related but you would have to have the whole squad either way because WYSIWYG is pretty hard to tell which 1 model in the uni has the grenades.... which matters in relation to which models may have been destroyed.