Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Sorry if this has been covered. Looked and couldn't find anything on it. How does the crucible interact with brotherhood of sorcerers/psychers? Is it just one model that goes if you fail the test or the whole squad? I'm thinking just one member of the squad. If I remember correctly that was the way they FAQed it in sixth.

The Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerers rules in the Special rules section explicitly covers this. Check the Index for the page number for Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerers.

ohiowargamer wrote:
Sorry if this has been covered. Looked and couldn't find anything on it. How does the crucible interact with brotherhood of sorcerers/psychers? Is it just one model that goes if you fail the test or the whole squad? I'm thinking just one member of the squad. If I remember correctly that was the way they FAQed it in sixth.

One member If I remember right and you can pick any BoP on the board as well, though don't quote me on the 2nd part

Single model. Read the BOP rule.

Well..... I'm not convinced it is that cut and dry. And it is *not* explicitly stated.

If this unit suffers Perils of the Warp, or is hit by an attack that specifically targets Psykers, the hits are Randomly Allocated amongst models with the Brotherhood of Psykers/ Sorcerers special rule.


The Crucible is not a Perils of the Warp.
The Crucible may or may not be an "attack", but it certainly does not 'hit', nor does it have any 'hits' to randomly allocate.
Thus it is not clearly (and definitely not 'explicitly) addressed.

The Crucible forces a Ld test which if not passed, the psyker is "removed from play"
As far as I know, there is only 1 other way this can happen in the game; Demonic spell Possession.
It also says the psyker is immediately "removed as a casualty". But then it goes on to clarify that if BoP, the *entire unit* is removed.

crucible of malediction is most certainly an attack that specifically targets Psykers...

Eventhough it never says it attacks, and never says it targets anything, and there are no 'hits' to allocate....

Amazing how you are so sure about things the rules never mention...

coredump wrote:
Eventhough it never says it attacks, and never says it targets anything, and there are no 'hits' to allocate....

Amazing how you are so sure about things the rules never mention...

Something that effects the enemy and can remove enemy models from play is most certainly an attack on the enemy.

it is not a Close Combat Attack, but that is the only Attack that is defined in the BRB, and the CoM says attacks (General usage) and not Attacks (Defined as a Characteristic in the BRB).

we need to use the dictionary definition of attacks because attacks, unlike Attacks, is not defined in the BRB.

Target is a defined term.... and it doesn't target either.

It also does not 'hit'....

But it does target psykers, it targets all psykers within its range...

 DeathReaper wrote:
But it does target psykers, it targets all psykers within its range...

It actually doesnt "target" anything. In fact, it is not even a shooting attack.

 extremefreak17 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
But it does target psykers, it targets all psykers within its range...

It actually doesnt "target" anything. In fact, it is not even a shooting attack.

It does not matter that it is not a shooting attack. it targets (not Targets) all psykers within its range.

We're all still waiting patiently for you to address "hit" with presumably the same assumption.

It doesn't hit, target or need LOS.

It affects ALL psykers including your own.

While I agree based on the BRB description that the BoP rule states what happens I dont think it's correct, that is based on units.

The DE codex description clearly states every model and not unit therefore regardless of the BoP rule it still hits the models.

It does not target, it never says it targets, never uses the word target... nothing. That is an assumption you are creating.

There are several things in the game that affect a unit without actually targeting that unit.

You are correct, it does not say target, therefore it does not.

You'll know if it targets if it uses words like:

Target, select, choose, pick, exclude.

These things denote that something is being targeted, without words like these, it doesn't target

Also DeathReaper. Reading through the rules, it does need to say target on it otherwise it simply doesn't and the rules have made sure to let you know when you target or not.

It does not "Choose a Target", but it does target psykers.

 DeathReaper wrote:
It does not "Choose a Target", but it does target psykers.

So a blast that scatters onto a wholly different unit than was intended is targeting them?
Can that unit Jink?

No, they aren't targeted.

So, if we go with that.... it does not target, so *that* rule does not apply.

That still leaves the question of what happens to a BoP.

Does that rule provide enough 'precedence"? Or does the Possession rule act as precedence? Or what....???

Crucible affected all psykers in range before the last edition FAQ said otherwise, the current Dark Eldar faq no longer has any ruling saying it does not affect all psykers.

rigeld2 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
It does not "Choose a Target", but it does target psykers.

So a blast that scatters onto a wholly different unit than was intended is targeting them?
Can that unit Jink?

No, they aren't targeted.

They are not Targeted, but they are the target of the attack.

Subtle but important difference.

 DeathReaper wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
It does not "Choose a Target", but it does target psykers.

So a blast that scatters onto a wholly different unit than was intended is targeting them?
Can that unit Jink?

No, they aren't targeted.

They are not Targeted, but they are the target of the attack.

Subtle but important difference.

No, they aren't. Not as far as the rules are concerned anyway.

 DeathReaper wrote:
The Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerers rules in the Special rules section explicitly covers this. Check the Index for the page number for Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerers.

Could you explain exactly how this works? I have read through the rule and I am failing to understand.

The CoM targets all psykers within range. if this happens you roll LD and if failed you remove one psyker since the attack specifically targets psykers.

 DeathReaper wrote:
The CoM targets all psykers within range. if this happens you roll LD and if failed you remove one psyker since the attack specifically targets psykers.

The underlined is incorrect.

rigeld2 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
The CoM targets all psykers within range. if this happens you roll LD and if failed you remove one psyker since the attack specifically targets psykers.

The underlined is incorrect.

No it is not.

It does not Target them, but it certainly targets them...

 DeathReaper wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
The CoM targets all psykers within range. if this happens you roll LD and if failed you remove one psyker since the attack specifically targets psykers.

The underlined is incorrect.

No it is not.

It does not Target them, but it certainly targets them...

You do realize that this makes absolutely no grammatical sense right? Flat out breaking basic English rules, not to mention baseless and lacking in any logical support whatsoever.

It isn't targeting Psykers, it is an effect that can only be applied to Psykers, entirely different meaning sir, do you not see that?

"Target" an "target" can easily mean different things.

"Target" has a specific meaning found in the rulebook (basically nominating a unit to be shot at).

"target" is being used with the "normal" English definition, eg someone to be affected by an action.

What DR is saying is that it does not nominate the Psykers for an attack (Target) but it does mark them as someone to be affected by an action (target).

 Lobomalo wrote:
It isn't targeting Psykers, it is an effect that can only be applied to Psykers, entirely different meaning sir, do you not see that?

So it is something that only affects Psykers?

How is that not targeting them?

The BRB does not define target. so we have to use the common English definition of target. (It defines Target, but that is for shooting attacks and not the same thing at all).

so clearly something that only affects one group definitely targets that group as per the common English definition of targeting.

 DeathReaper wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
The CoM targets all psykers within range. if this happens you roll LD and if failed you remove one psyker since the attack specifically targets psykers.

The underlined is incorrect.

No it is not.

It does not Target them, but it certainly targets them...

No, it certainly does not.
"target" is the subject or aim of an attack or effect. The Crucible doesn't aim or pick a subject to devote energy to. It's completely uncaring as to who it nukes.

You're literally inventing things to try and make it work the way you think it should. You shouldn't do that.

RAW it's grey. I think it's only intended to remove one model from a BoP unit.