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I've been researching it for awhile. Anyways, here is my issue. I just finished building part of an AM army list that I have been working on. Since I like Leman Russ' I bought 4, and magnetized all of them (very awesome by the way). My friend who has been playing 40k for a long time wanted to play a game, so I put together a 1000 point list using 4 leman russ' (because that is all I had). I warned him regarding that, because I thought it was would be a dick move to show up like that and not give warning (it was a friendly game). Anyways, that night I figured out how to get to 1500, because I could use some of my other troops for counts as, so I let him know we could go to 1500. He had been wanting to move up anyways because he plays GKs, and apparently they have trouble building lists that are under 1500.

So I showed up to the game this weekend. Low and behold, the list my friend brought was a list specifically designed to destroy mine. All psycannons and troops. Terminators in landraider with Mordrake (spelling), all upgraded to hammers. An assasin that roles 4 d6 for armor penetration. Tech marine, too. On the alpha strike I got a couple units hurting. But then he utterly destroyed me when he got int cc (I couldnt stop the landraider).

I almost nerd raged, I won't lie. However, I have a bit of a sour taste in my mouth. What does everyone think?

UPDATE: Leaving the game.

When playing with friends, list building becomes a pain.

Then again, you are playing IG and their only real strength is their tanks so anyone knowing they would be playing IG brings anti tank, its messed up, but people want to win

cm32 wrote: he plays GKs, and apparently they have trouble building lists that are under 1500

That's so far from the truth it hurts, but continue...

cm32 wrote:All psycannons and troops. Terminators in landraider with Mordrake (spelling), all upgraded to hammers. An assasin that roles 4 d6 for armor penetration.

That's just a normal GK list, not something specifically tailored to beat up russes. Come back when he starts bringing interceptors and you'll know there's something fishy going on.

cm32 wrote:But then he utterly destroyed me when he got int cc

Welcome to Guard vs. GK.

cm32 wrote:What does everyone think?

I think you're overreacting. Even if you weren't, and he was list tailoring, there's nothing wrong with that.

It took me far too long to learn this lesson myself, but trust me, if you're going to have problems with losing games, you're going to have a pretty tough time with 40k. Making winning your primary purpose for playing will lead to boundless frustration for you, because that's not what 40k is in almost any way designed for.

I wouldn't entirely call it list tailoring, the options that your friend took are usually the normal for what GK players take, well at least the ones I play against. Maybe since you are new it would have been nicer to have him use a little more noobie list, but seems like a normal 1500 point list.

It sounds like list tailoring yes, while a lot of those things are pretty standard usually they will bring more than just daemon hammers in a non-tailored list, but the way you told him also sounds like your warning him so he can list tailor.

It would be like me challenging someone a day in advance and telling him I'm bringing a warhound titan, I would expect he would build a list to deal with it.

There are ways to teach a habitual list tailor a lesson though, things like saying I'm bringing my lemun Russ tanks, and then just spamming infantry with no vehicles to make a tailored list falter or fail.

What would have you done if the situation was reversed?

Did you guys agree ahead of time what to do or not to do?

Does he have a variety of minis to use? You only had a small selection maybe he had as well?

Maybe he was too worried about "vehicles got a huge buff in 7th" he did what he thought was best to counter it. Maybe he thought 4 vehicles is spamming? Maybe he thought fight cheese with cheese?

Maybe he is a player who needs to win with plastic toy soldiers?

Why not ask him why he choose what he did? Maybe he didn't do it on purpose. Maybe he did.

Another thought is, it was only one game. So what is the big deal? If he did it again, I would be very leary and then say, there is a big possibility that there will be not a 3rd game if he doesn't change or give a good reason for doing this. While it may be fun for him, it's not for you. Maybe he can tell you what to do and help you in your list if you feel you did so poorly.

Ask online for ideas to help improve your list it can help a lot, they may suggest a strategy or tactic you hadn't thought of. Talk with your opponent and see of he sees something you could improve, something I've noticed can be helpful is ask him to nominate a unit or model from your army he would consider as your MVP and ask why and compare it to who you thought was your MVP and why you thought so. The MVP system can be really helpful in comparing how opponents view a unit compared to how you view the same units.

I guess the consensus is that I should deal, which is what I did. I think, in the future, I won't be giving warnings. I'll just bring the best stuff I have, as competitive as I can, and pound face. No more warnings regarding what is in my list (4 leman russ at 1500 is not cheesy, btw).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheAvengingKnee wrote:
Ask online for ideas to help improve your list in can help a lot, they may suggest a strategy or tactic you hadn't thought of. Talk with your opponent and see of he sees something you could improve, something I've noticed can be helpful is ask him to nominate a unit or model from your army he would consider as your MVP and ask why.

This is a good idea. I did some of that, but the list I had was put together from scraps because I was working on it. My goal list is actually pretty cool, I've had it critiqued by some of my other friends.

cm32 wrote:I'll just bring the best stuff I have, as competitive as I can, and pound face.

Sigh. Let us know when you figure out that 40k isn't a serious strategy game.

Hopefully before you spend too much money on the miniatures.

 Ailaros wrote:

cm32 wrote:I'll just bring the best stuff I have, as competitive as I can, and pound face.

Sigh. Let us know when you figure out that 40k isn't a serious strategy game.

Hopefully before you spend too much money on the miniatures.

If it isn't competitive, then why do people list tailor?

They want to win because they think game = I MUST WIN NO MATTER WHAT!. Some people at least I'd say.

pm713 wrote:
They want to win because they think game = I MUST WIN NO MATTER WHAT!. Some people at least I'd say.

You see it. I am not ultra competitive. I like to win, but not at the expense of making others miserable. That is why I told him about my list at 1000. I would not have warned at 1500, as I think 4 tanks is reasonable at that point level. In effect, I was trying to make sure the game didn't get ruined.