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Lord Arcanist Ossyan +6 (T4 Hour of War)
Houseguard Rifle Team 2
Houseguard Rifle Team 2
Ghost Sniper 2
Ghost Sniper 2
Houseguard Riflemen 7
Houseguard UA 2
Houseguard Riflemen 7
Houseguard UA 0
Houseguard Thane 2
Houseguard Thane 2
Arcanist 1
Arcanist 1
Hypnos 3
Banshee 10 // Deamon 9
Houseguard Halberders 7

This is what I am thinking of right now. I really want to have the UA for the Halberders, they can function as meat shields without the UA but if I really want them to kill something or be more mobile they need the UA. What would be the best thing to trim to get the extra 2 points. If I take a Deamon I get an extra point but I can't lose an Arcanist or I lose T3 and T4 reqs.

Do you need the Houseguard Rifle Teams? Because they are probably the worst unit in the faction and I have never seen anyone take them, even in a tier list which boosts them (this one doesn't really). ROF1 with no way to boost makes them way too unreliable.

In any case I don't think this is in tier anyway, because the Houseguard Thanes weren't released when this tier list was written and afaik they aren't included in his tier list (it doesn't allow 'Houseguard solos' like Issyria's tier for example). Tbh I think this by itself makes it worth breaking tier, the Thane is such a huge buff to both Riflemen and Halberdiers that most of the time a single unit of Riflemen + Thane is going to be more helpful than 2 units of Riflemen because Ret don't have that many options to get around Stealth.

If you drop tier then I would suggest removing the Rifle Teams and one unit of Riflemen to get 2 units of Stormfalls. You then have some more flexibility to swap things around (consider MHA rather than Snipers as this list is light on aggressive solos and melee units) and can get the UA for the Halberdiers by dropping the second Thane (speed up the Halberdiers early then boost the Riflemen once you have range).

Powerguy wrote:
Do you need the Houseguard Rifle Teams? Because they are probably the worst unit in the faction and I have never seen anyone take them, even in a tier list which boosts them (this one doesn't really). ROF1 with no way to boost makes them way too unreliable.

In any case I don't think this is in tier anyway, because the Houseguard Thanes weren't released when this tier list was written and afaik they aren't included in his tier list (it doesn't allow 'Houseguard solos' like Issyria's tier for example). Tbh I think this by itself makes it worth breaking tier, the Thane is such a huge buff to both Riflemen and Halberdiers that most of the time a single unit of Riflemen + Thane is going to be more helpful than 2 units of Riflemen because Ret don't have that many options to get around Stealth.

If you drop tier then I would suggest removing the Rifle Teams and one unit of Riflemen to get 2 units of Stormfalls. You then have some more flexibility to swap things around (consider MHA rather than Snipers as this list is light on aggressive solos and melee units) and can get the UA for the Halberdiers by dropping the second Thane (speed up the Halberdiers early then boost the Riflemen once you have range).

You know what, you bring up a excellent point. I don't actually know if he an take the thanes as his reqs just say houseguard units. I just kinda assumed it did.

I dont strictly need the rifle teams, i just saw some problems cracking heavy armor outside of feat turn. I figured Rat 7 would easily hit the def 10-12 they would normally be shooting at.

So 1 unit of riflemen outside of tier, 2 units of stormfalls. Since i dont have to have hypnos and such would you see swapping out the two heavys for a hyperion?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How about this?

Lord Arcanist Ossyan +6
Hyperion 12
SyS Wyshnalyrr 2

Houseguard Riflemen 8
Houseguard UA 2

Houseguard Thane 2

Houseguard Halberders 7
Houseguard UA 2

Stormfall Archers 5
Stormfall Archers 5

Mage Hunter Assassian 2 // Ghost Sniper 2
Mage Hunter Assassian 2 // Ghost Sniper 2

Arcanist 1

-50

+Speed for Hyperion, and Upkeep help with Merc

Yeah units and solos aren't the same thing sadly.

The issue with the Rifle Teams is that they are Rat 7 but can't move and fire. Stormfalls are a much better answer for cracking armour, 12 + 4D6 on the feat turn will just put things in the dirt and are much more flexible (you get effective RAT7 with aiming, they fire AOEs and have better range if you use Snipe). For 5 points you get an average of 24 damage against ARM20 (12+14-20=6*4=24) on the feat turn, for 2 points you average 7 against ARM20 (7+10-10=7). This really just shows how bad the Rifle Team is, 3 Rifle Teams are more expensive than the Stormfalls but average less damage and are less flexible.

Tbh I would prefer Hypnos and a Banshee for Ossyan rather than Hyperion. Usually Ossyan is used to deal with armour skew, the Banshee and Hypnos complement this better imo. The Banshee lets you knock something down and hit it easily with the Stormfalls and Hypnos lets you lock down any heavy jack.

Hypnos is legit, after incorporating your suggestions I came up with the following.

etribution of Scyrah - Ossyan+Hyperion

56 / 56 (50+6) Warcaster(s) : 1/1 Warjack(s) : 1 Battle Engines : 0 Solos : 5 Units : 4

Lord Arcanist Ossyan - WJ: +6
- Hyperion - PC: 18

Houseguard Thane - PC: 2
Houseguard Thane - PC: 2
Mage Hunter Assassin - PC: 2
Mage Hunter Assassin - PC: 2
Arcanist - PC: 1

Stormfall Archers - Leader & 3 Grunts: 5
Stormfall Archers - Leader & 3 Grunts: 5
Houseguard Riflemen - Leader & 9 Grunts: 8
- Rifleman Officer & Standard - PC: 2
Houseguard Halberdiers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 7
- Halberdier Officer & Standard - PC: 2

While Hypnos is great I did spend some money on the Hyperion so I want to get a few more games in with it. Would you recommend including A+H into the list for 4 points? Normally I would just shoot choirs with mage hunters but that is not a option in this one. I also tried a few games with just one Thane and on occasion I kept wishing I had another one. Hordes is a big concern in my local meta with Circle being a big offender, +Speed and Stealth ignore each turn is very useful.

A+H are good in pretty much any list tbh. Usually the main limitation is that you build lists in pairs, and you can't put her in both lists. Imo Ravyn is our caster that gets the most out of them (Sniped Strike Force with Magic Weapons can hit everything or the +2 damage means you now have RNG16 POW12's) but Ossyan is probably next in line. As I said before Ossyan is often built as an armour cracking list, and the damage buff from Aiyana is a big help - it is often the difference between finishing off a heavy or just messing it up badly (which if it is a heavy warbeast means it is still going to eat your face next turn).

Hyperion is an amazing jack, but if you are keen on running it more often we have other casters that run it better. Usually you see Ravyn running one (because of Snipe mostly) or Issyria (who can fire the big gun again every turn). I'm kind of in the opposite boat from you atm, I am running Issyria and Rayvn as my main two casters at the moment, but haven't dropped the money for the big guy yet so I am trying some other interesting options.

Edit:

How about this>?


Retribution of Scyrah - Ossyan

56 / 56 (50+6) Warcaster(s) : 1/1 Warjack(s) : 2 Battle Engines : 0 Solos : 1 Units : 5

Lord Arcanist Ossyan - WJ: +6
- Daemon - PC: 9
- Phoenix - PC: 10

Houseguard Thane - PC: 2

Houseguard Halberdiers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 7
- Halberdier Officer & Standard - PC: 2

Houseguard Riflemen - Leader & 9 Grunts: 8
- Rifleman Officer & Standard - PC: 2

Stormfall Archers - Leader & 3 Grunts: 5

Lady Aiyana & Master Holt - Lady Aiyanna & Master Holt: 4

Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters - Cylena & 5 Grunts: 7

Grabbed the Nyss for CRA, but they can also be MHSF w/ UA, which of the two do you think would be better?

Deamon's "aoe" works with Ossys feat and can kill a bunch of guys if they are packed.

Can you take Mage Hunter Assassins in this theme force?

 sing your life wrote:
Can you take Mage Hunter Assassins in this theme force?

Not in theme, but I can take them in a regular list.

Well, unfortninatly I can't help you with your list, because the only Ret tactic I know is "take more MHAs".