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2014/06/18 04:09:03
Subject: Re:Proper pronounciations of common 40k names and words?
Since laser is an acronym, (Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation), isn't a real word. And, the 'er' changes the pronunciation to a longer 'a'.
So, lazz-gun is more correct.
Tycho is odd, as no-one has that name these days. The only places I've seen it come up is the astronomer, and Penny Arcade comic., But, when I watch any astronomy history programme, it's pronounced 'Tee-ko'.
Sell-est-een
Lieutenant = "Lef-tenant"
-Arch gets me, as there are archangels (ark), but archdeacons (arch).
I use prime-ark, Ex-ark and ort-ark.
My pet hate has been Tyranid.
Previous to the Dawn of War series everyone I knew (not many at the time I must admit) pronounced it as;
Tie-ran-id (along the lines of 'tyrant', like a Hive Tyrant)
now of course it's Ti-ran-id, which I can see coming from the pronunciation of 'tyranny'.
The planet they are named after of course being Tyran, which still reads easier in my mind as Tie-ran and not Tirran.
For some others mentioned (in my thick Scottish accent) ;
Gitz = Gits
Abaddon = Abah-don.
Primarch = Pri-mark (to further befuddle UK people, I would say Pree-mark for the budget clothes store Primark)
Tzeentch = Zeen-ch (although an emphasis on the start of the Z)
Zoanthrope - Zo-an-throap
Coteaz = Co-tez
Celestine - Selles-teen
Roboute Guilliman - Robo Gillymon
For Tycho, well there was Tyco toys so I go with that (Tie-co).
EDIT: For feth's sake! This forum software will not LET me write the letters t, e and h together as one word! It keeps changing it to "the". That's infuriating!
TheKbob wrote: I'd go for Ravenous for Ravenor as it's more "always hungry" versus a bird-like thing.
I also say "Prime-Ark." Never heard Prime-arch, is this a UK thing? I assume Primarch is derived from patriarch and matriarch, but of not having a gender specific tone.
Sell - a - steen or Sell - a - stein? (St. Celestine)
We would normally say "Prime-arkh" in the UK. The thing is that that several of the sounds pronounced in these words don't correspond to the precise sound of some individual letter. For example, Tz is not a short 'the sound, nor is it a 'zuh' sound, as either letter alone would be. It actually is a "Tz" sound as is common in many Eastern European languages. Say "t e h" and "zeh" together (I had to put spaces in the first word because this forum keeps editing it to be "the") and then repeat faster and faster to arrive at the sound. Or more simply, just go for it all at once and say t and z at the same time, like a wasp was tzalking.
The human voice is capable of far, far more sounds than are simply present in the common English language. Some African languages have clicks in them - an easy sound to make so why shouldn't it be a sound used in language? And yet in English that is not known. Arabic has several sounds that are not common in English. For example, why are Kuwait and Qatar started with different letters when English speakers begin both with a "kuh" sound? Because they're not actually the same start sounds but to English ears that don't properly distinguish, they get simplified to the same.
It's no surprise that many names in the WH40K setting don't equate directly. For example, Primarch really ought to have a very soft 'ach' at the back of the throat at the end, to distinguish "Primarch" from "Primark".
This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2014/06/18 10:51:08
What is best in life?
To wound enemy units, see them driven from the table, and hear the lamentations of their player.
2014/06/18 11:45:48
Subject: Proper pronounciations of common 40k names and words?
How is Zoanthrope ambiguous? Zoan as in protozoan, thrope as in lycanthrope or misanthrope.
I've heard lots of people mispronounce Termagant as Tur-ma-gornt or tur-ma-gant instead of tur-ma-gnt.
Ailaros wrote: You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!"
2014/06/18 12:12:04
Subject: Proper pronounciations of common 40k names and words?
there in the uk, do y'all say daemon as 'damon', or 'demon'? i went to a gw for a while in texas where everyone kept saying the former, along with talking about 'bahl' predators... they looked at me like i was nuts when it suggested they might be saying both names wrong. similarly, i also say 'aegis' without the a. i know you brits are fond of adding extra letters to words, and it's just about the only thing you do that bugs me. irrational and stupid on my part, i know... from what i understand, it's a leftover from a time when a portion of the population was trying to francify britain, and wanted the language to seem fancier. what they seem to have failed to realize is that the french either can't spell, or don't know how to pronounce what they've spelled. how do you get 'orderve' out 'horsde ouvres', for example?
2014/06/18 13:56:31
Subject: Proper pronounciations of common 40k names and words?
knas ser wrote: The human voice is capable of far, far more sounds than are simply present in the common English language.
The crappy part is that the brain's "coding" for language solidifies over time. I have a pretty good ear for language, apparently, but some sounds are just so foreign that I simply can't make them - and I've left my tongue sore from the effort. Pronouncing German? No problem. Old or Middle English? Fine. Russian? Uhhh... When did my mouth stop working? I can hear what's wrong, but I just can't fix it. When I thought I was bad, I had to try explaining the pronunciation of my (Russian) mother-in-law's name to my mom. That was downright painful.
Been interesting to follow the pronunciations, keeping posters' location flags in mind. I already knew English (my native tongue, mind you) to be a rather nonsensical hodgepodge, in terms of pronunciation, but I'm genuinely surprised that some of the words have multiple interpretations, in the first place. Rowboat Girlyman, sure - French, to me, is like Japanese with kanji: Learning to speak and learning to read/write are two completely different tasks.
@morpheuschild: I'm used to "DAY-mun," "BAHL," and "AY-jis." Baal, being Hebrew, is a separate case, but the "ae fancy factor" is a relatively common trope, at least in fantasy and sci-fi. Definitely not French, though. Explanation is spoilers, to spare the uninterested a nerdy digression:
Spoiler:
The combined AE/ae character ("ash") was present in Old English (specifically referring to the Anglo-Saxon language, a common root of both modern English and German) before the Norman conquest and consequent "Francification" of the literate laymen in England. It also has a (much better known, I would guess) Greek/Latin counterpart, which was present in liturgical texts, before, during, and after. Thing is, "ash" doesn't have one set pronunciation. In Old English, at least, it's pronunciation varies based on the other letters in proximity. Generally, whether initial or medial, ash followed by a voiced consonant is "soft," while ash followed by an unvoiced consonant is "hard." Thus, Æþel (noble) is pronounced "AH-thul" (soft th, like "thick," not "the" - also, the last vowel is slightly swallowed) and HWÆT (which some may recognize as the opening pseudo-line of Beowulf and the predecessor of "what") is "hwaht", while Æsir is "AY-seer" (again, slightly swallowed). To confuse matters further, the OE concept of voiced and unvoiced differs from modern English, where a soft th (e.g. think) and t would be considered unvoiced and a hard th (e.g. them) would be voiced.
The Latin Æ is supposedly closest to a long i (meaning "Caesar" is closer to the German "Kaiser" than the common English "SEE-zer"), but children are read the fables of "AY-sop." A (formerly, at least) common name derived from the Anglo-Saxon "noble" (Æþel, again), Ethel, came to be read with a soft e, of all things. Language, huh?
@McGibs: I've heard it (in the mythical context, not 40k, but still...) pronounced "CHIM-er-uh," at one point. Like a truncated version of "chimp" pronounced by an indecisive JFK. Never heard a long e, though. I've (with that one notable exception) always heard "kai-MEHR-uh"/"kai-MARE-uh." With Belial, I would have guessed "be-LIE-uhl" and crammed those last two syllables together, like "denial." Your Michael example confused me, though, as I've only ever heard the name pronounced "MY-kuhl" in English and "MEE-chai-el" (with that throaty h sound, as in Chanukah or chutzpah - didn't know a better way to transliterate it) in Hebrew/German/:.Yiddish.
The Dreadnote wrote:But the Emperor already has a shrine, in the form of your local Games Workshop. You honour him by sacrificing your money to the plastic effigies of his warriors. In time, your devotion will be rewarded with the gift of having even more effigies to worship.
2014/06/18 15:53:00
Subject: Proper pronounciations of common 40k names and words?
thank you, oadie, for that particular chunk of information. etymology is something i've always found quite fascinating, and that little bit of information filled a gap in my brain. you're right about the english language being a bizarre mish-mash of pronunciation. while it might have a germanic base, i'd say it's a very bastardized language at this point. one of my favorite discrepancies was pointed out by george carlin once.
'if laughter is pronounced 'lafter', then shouldn't daughter be pronounced 'dafter'?'
2014/06/18 16:41:11
Subject: Proper pronounciations of common 40k names and words?
I pronounce "Primarch" as it's spelt, i.e. "-arch" as in an arch in a bridge, but that's really to differentiate it from a certain clothes shop here in the UK (may be some stateside too). One is useful if you need a pair of cheap jeans, the other, not so much, so it's handy not to get them confused...
Ignatius wrote: I think my Captain would shoot me if I ever described myself as Lef-tenant Trentanelli.
Is this whole leftenant thing still used in Britain? I knows it was in ol dubya dubya two but now a days?
Very much so. An ex-army friend of mine told me that saying 'loo-tenant' in the British armed forces is likely to get you punched. :/
That's funny. I think saying leftenant in the American Armed Forces would just get you a lot of confused stares from the enlisted guys. If I actually wasn't afraid of what my captain would say to me I'd try it next drill and let you guys know for sure haha.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/18 17:18:59
2014/06/18 18:06:09
Subject: Re:Proper pronounciations of common 40k names and words?
morpheuschild wrote: while it might have a germanic base, i'd say it's a very bastardized language at this point. one of my favorite discrepancies was pointed out by george carlin once.
'if laughter is pronounced 'lafter', then shouldn't daughter be pronounced 'dafter'?'
Quite so. Even without touching on loanwords, there's still plenty of room for confusion thanks to "normal" English words being liable to have Latin roots, or French, or...
On the "augh" issue, what about draught? In most US bars, hearing "draft" means sports teams are picking players. If you wrote it down, folks would assume dry weather was coming - the moderately perceptive would also think that you couldn't spell. Really, though, you're just looking for a drink. Possibly a game of checkers, too. Could probably come up with a viable etymological explanation for the daughter/laughter discrepancy, with a few minutes of digging, but I won't subject the poor readers of this thread to any more than I already have.
Sorry for the derail, folks. I'll shut up now. Promise!
The Dreadnote wrote:But the Emperor already has a shrine, in the form of your local Games Workshop. You honour him by sacrificing your money to the plastic effigies of his warriors. In time, your devotion will be rewarded with the gift of having even more effigies to worship.
2014/06/18 18:21:24
Subject: Re:Proper pronounciations of common 40k names and words?
morpheuschild wrote: while it might have a germanic base, i'd say it's a very bastardized language at this point. one of my favorite discrepancies was pointed out by george carlin once.
'if laughter is pronounced 'lafter', then shouldn't daughter be pronounced 'dafter'?'
Quite so. Even without touching on loanwords, there's still plenty of room for confusion thanks to "normal" English words being liable to have Latin roots, or French, or...
On the "augh" issue, what about draught? In most US bars, hearing "draft" means sports teams are picking players. If you wrote it down, folks would assume dry weather was coming - the moderately perceptive would also think that you couldn't spell. Really, though, you're just looking for a drink. Possibly a game of checkers, too. Could probably come up with a viable etymological explanation for the daughter/laughter discrepancy, with a few minutes of digging, but I won't subject the poor readers of this thread to any more than I already have.
Sorry for the derail, folks. I'll shut up now. Promise!
Actually, don't. I've found both your recent posts very interesting. And I pronounce "draught" as dr-arr-ft (grew up in Britain).
What is best in life?
To wound enemy units, see them driven from the table, and hear the lamentations of their player.
2014/06/18 18:42:32
Subject: Proper pronounciations of common 40k names and words?
Roboot Gweelimuhn (going to be honest here, this is pretty much how i've fallen into saying it, and likely is not anything near correct)
Lazzgun
Tier-a-nid
Zeench
Prime-ark
Ab-a-don (the honest and true pronunciation makes me want to skin kittens, no idea why)
Selles-tine (celestine - think of the name "Celeste" and you're on the right path)
Co-tee-ez or co-tays (Coteaz)
Tie-co
Al-a-tock (Alaitoc - again, probably not right, but i can't break the habit).
I-an-den (Iyanden - i bring this one up because i hear it "E-an-den" and "I-an-den". I suppose either could be correct, honestly).
Be-leel (Be-lie-al is just stupid).
Ky-mer-a (I hear it Ky-meer-a too, and the one that makes me just fething wince is "Shim-era".... really?)
Day-mon (Daemon ... though once again, i realize its probably actually Demon)
Sam-eye-el (Sammael - the "pull" between "eye" and "el" is really short it should come out sounding Sam,Eye-el)
Could totally go on and on here. I'm sure most of us good. I'd bet most of us have a handful of incorrect and correct ones. If you're anything like me you have a healthy amount of "I know this is wrong, but i find the proper way stupid sounding").
azreal13 wrote: Actually, while I agree on the pronunciation, a 'ze' can invoke a 't' sound. I'm trying desperately to think of an example, but they all escape me right now.
the german word tzschuss invokes a similar sound its a short sharp t sound
2014/06/19 00:24:50
Subject: Proper pronounciations of common 40k names and words?
6000 pts - 
4000 pts - Harlies: 1000 pts - 
1000 pts
I'm sure most of us good. I'd bet most of us have a handful of incorrect and correct ones. If you're anything like me you have a healthy amount of "I know this is wrong, but i find the proper way stupid sounding").
Shadowkeepers (4000 points)
3rd Company (3000 points)