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Hey all,

Checking in to say how much I've enjoyed the first few games I've had of this game.

I also love that I can look up any of the rules II'm curious about on Corvus Belli's website.

So far, I've started painting up what little I've picked up of PanO stuff, which includes both the vanilla starter the MO starter and a couple of TAGs.

Which TAGs did you get?

I got the Cutter and the Dragoes for now.

After I get everything painted up, I may pick up another TAG as they look wicked cool.

sqir666 wrote:
I got the Cutter and the Dragoes for now.

After I get everything painted up, I may pick up another TAG as they look wicked cool.

That is exactly what I did. Both the Cutter and Dragoe are badass for their own special reasons. And when the Seraph eventually comes out...

Glad you're enjoying the game!

Ugh, don't remind me. I'm sad that the seraph and tikbalang's aren't models yet.

Sadly, I haven't had the opportunity to play with either TAG yet as this weekend I'm going play some 200 point games.

It will be fun. There's no better feeling than surprising someone with a Cutter or unloading with the Dragoe. ALL THE DICE!

Let us know how it goes!

So for that 200 points, what are you planning on taking? Who is your opponent? Also, welcome!

A friend wants to learn Morat Aggression Force, and I can't decide between shock army, military orders, or vanilla PanO.

I'm tempted by the following in order,to learn link team rules, to field a TAG and by knights in power armor.

Go ASA. Best link team for Pan-O (the regulars, IMHO, but Bagh-Mari have their charm, especially with Rao.) Best TAGs (Dragoe and Tikbalang... the latter is due to be released sometime) and best HI, the Guarda de Assalto.

That is if you really want Pan-O.

This is an idea I'm considering for 200 points.

Shock Army 198/ 3 sec
3 regulars
1 LT. Regular
Machinist
-pal bot
Dragoes
Knight of Montessa w/ combi rifle

Any thoughts on this?

I see...

So it's not a dick/TFG move to bring a TAG to a 200 point game?

No, not if you guys have played enough games that you are comfortable with the rules and the units. However, you would very much be TFG if you TAG stomped somebody at their first game of Infinity.

I would save the TAG for later, and learn the basics of move and shoot and the other important rules, then add things like hidden deployment, Airborn deployment and TAGs.

This is your army. I've used the Infinity army builder. It is quite nice. Give it a try.

SHOCK ARMY OF ACONTECIMENTO
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 7 0 0

REGULAR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (10)
REGULAR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (10)
REGULAR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (10)
REGULAR Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (10)
MACHINIST Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (15)
PALBOT Electric Pulse. (3)
KNIGHT OF MONTESA Combi Rifle / Pistol, AP CCW. (46)
DRÃGAO Hyper-rapid Magnetic Cannon., Heavy Flamethrower / . (2 | 94)

2 SWC | 198 Points

Open with Army 4

Anyway, you only have 7 orders and Dragoes are order hogs. A smart opponent will wipe your order monkeys and leave your Dragoes order starved.

This is the starter box for ASA, more or less.
SHOCK ARMY OF ACONTECIMENTO
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 6 0 0

REGULAR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (10)
REGULAR Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 15)
REGULAR Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (10)
BAGH-MARI Combi Rifle+ Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (22)
COMMANDO AKAL Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (23)
KNIGHT OF MONTESA Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 51)

2.5 SWC | 131 Points

Open with Army 4

Most good learning armies are at 150 points, but, a good 200 point learning army might be something like this, based soer of on what your list included. Personally, I would not use the Trauma Doc.
SHOCK ARMY OF ACONTECIMENTO
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 10 0 0

REGULAR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (10)
REGULAR Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (10)
REGULAR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (10)
REGULAR Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 17)
REGULAR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (10)
KNIGHT OF MONTESA Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 51)
BAGH-MARI Combi Rifle+ Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (22)
BAGH-MARI HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 27)
NAGA Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (26)
TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (14)
PALBOT Electric Pulse. (3)

4 SWC | 200 Points

Open with Army 4


Although I would swap out the Montesa for a Guarda de Assalto. This would entail you getting the starter box, and a naga, the Regular's blister with the Spitfire, and the support box (w/Doc and machinist) and using the Akalis as a Bagh-Mari proxy for a while. You could also use the 2nd palbot as a proxy for the GdA's auxbot, and use the Montesa as a proxy for the GdA while you are learning.

There is enough here to keep you going for a while. I include the Naga because learning Camo is crucial, and you should start that one right away. Plus it is ASA's only camo unit. Buut it is a good one.

 Red Harvest wrote:
Ka-Snip.

Most of those lists pretty awesome. Some of those things I don't own yet.

Here's a list of what I've purchased so far.

Support pack box
Military Orders box
Vanilla Starter box
Gaurda De Assaulto blister
Order Sergeants blister
Croc Man Sniper blister
2 Akalis Commandos
Fusilier HMG blister
Knight of Montessa blister
Knight of the Holy Sepulchre blister
Dragoes
Cutter

So far, it seems that my purchases have given a little bit of everything but no real emphasis on anything in particular. Which could be a horrible problem in the near future IMO.

sqir666 wrote:
So far, it seems that my purchases have given a little bit of everything but no real emphasis on anything in particular. Which could be a horrible problem in the near future IMO.

Depends if you plan on focusing on one sectorial or just want a general smattering of Pan Oceania with the idea of using any and all lists.

As it is, if you want to run vanilla, a wide selection is pretty fantastic. What you have looks like a great pool to grab lots of different vanilla lists from.

If you want to focus on a sectorial, you might be able to make a list from that as well, but you'll probably find yourself wanting a few more models depending on the sectorial. You look like you have plenty of Military Orders, but probably not for ASA or NeoTerra.

Wow, you really have some variety there. Which is to say, Vanilla Pan-O. So no need to worry, there will be no horrible problem. A few select additions and you will have fleshed out your sectorials too. You have the makings of MO already.

So play Vanilla for a while as you learn, and then when you have a firmer idea of how you like to play, add to your collection. Bear in mind that WYSIWYG is not really possible in Infinity and proxys are acceptable. Nobody will bat an eye if you say the Montesa knight counts as a Teutonic knight for example.

I can't decide if this a good idea or not.

Panoceania - Military Order | 8 models
________________________________________________________

Order Sergeant MSV2 Spitfire (25|1.5)
Order Sergeant Combi (13|0)
Order Sergeant Combi (13|0)
Order Sergeant Combi (13|0)
Order Sergeant Combi (13|0)
Knight of the Holy Sepulchre Spitfire Lt (58|2)
Knight of Montesa Combi (46|0)
Machinist Engineer (15|0)
Palbot (3|0)
________________________________________________________

199/200 points | 3.5/4 swc
open with Aleph Toolbox : http://goo.gl/uJITVB

Ah, well somebody who plays MO can tell you better than I. I only play ASA.

But you have a nice link, and a couple of heavy hitters. The machinist is out of place, since he has nothing to repair and you are not playing ITS scenarios yet (and so do not net to worry about specialists). Without him you have 19 points and 0.5 SWC to spend. I'd say try the trauma doc and palbot instead.

Oh and play. Best way to learn what works for you. There is no one list to rule them all in Infinity

 Red Harvest wrote:
Ah, well somebody who plays MO can tell you better than I. I only play ASA.

But you have a nice link, and a couple of heavy hitters. The machinist is out of place, since he has nothing to repair and you are not playing ITS scenarios yet (and so do not net to worry about specialists). Without him you have 19 points and 0.5 SWC to spend. I'd say try the trauma doc and palbot instead.

My Trauma Doc ends up causing lots of trauma for my opponent thus far, which I tend to find pretty hilarious.

 Red Harvest wrote:
Oh and play. Best way to learn what works for you. There is no one list to rule them all in Infinity

This is what I keep hearing from both my other local players and those in Houston which is gonna cause a few issues for me, as I just left Warmachine/Hordes. "The Ultimate List" Syndrome is one of many reasons I'm burned out on that game.

sqir666 wrote:

 Red Harvest wrote:
Ah, well somebody who plays MO can tell you better than I. I only play ASA.

But you have a nice link, and a couple of heavy hitters. The machinist is out of place, since he has nothing to repair and you are not playing ITS scenarios yet (and so do not net to worry about specialists). Without him you have 19 points and 0.5 SWC to spend. I'd say try the trauma doc and palbot instead.

My Trauma Doc ends up causing lots of trauma for my opponent thus far, which I tend to find pretty hilarious.

 Red Harvest wrote:
Oh and play. Best way to learn what works for you. There is no one list to rule them all in Infinity

This is what I keep hearing from both my other local players and those in Houston which is gonna cause a few issues for me, as I just left Warmachine/Hordes. "The Ultimate List" Syndrome is one of many reasons I'm burned out on that game.

Trauma Doc's are famous or notorious for that. They are known as the most lethal unit in Pan-O. If the search function were working on the Official Forum I could find that comic strip about it...

Yeah, It's not your list, it's you, or so the saying goes. Truth is, you can make a bad list, but it takes effort. Think of the list as a toolbox, and you want a variety of tools, no? And it will depend on how you like to use tools, and how you like to play. I rarely play the same list twice, and a lot of players are like that.

Well, to be honest I'm still discovering how I want to play this game.

I know from other game systems I play either attrition or super durable stuff. That and I absolutely love both the TAG and knight models.

This weekend I'll see how taking a MO list does and report back with my games.

Attrition doesn't work in Infinity like other games, because the game is designed around efficient use of your order pool and the fact that multiple orders can (and should) be used to activate a model more than once during the same turn.

Attrition loses you models, which loses you orders, which loses you combat effectiveness.

Durability is a misconception in this game. Some units are durable, which means that if they are in ideal circumstances (cover, not being shot in the back, in a good range band) a 'durable' unit (gained through a variety of ways - combat camo, high armour, No Wound Incapacitation, etc) mgith survive a full burst from a high burst gun. your opponent will be doing his best to mitigate that durability - shooting you from out of your LoF to remove the face to face roll, burning off camo/odd/etc, shooting you from their own good range band, etc.

The best way to stop people dying in Infinity is mutual covering LoF. If someone wants to get the drop on someone to shoot them in the back, try to make sure you have other guys whol can see him to get their own AROs. This will make it harder for your opponent to kill things, because otherwise it's a trade - they kill yours and theirs dies, and no one likes that.

Interesting. Looks like this game may cause to re-think some previous conceptions. Which also has me very excited to learn this game even more.

Excellent It can be very immersive too, which is a nice experience, IMHO, in tabletop gaming.

As far as discovering how you want to play, I think you may find that there will be several ways you want to play. And of course, you know the best way to do that.

You will need to discard most of your pre-conceptions though. Something many people find they need to do. An 'Unlearning Curve' if you will

Well, I got a few games in last night versus a couple of guys and several factions.

I used a version of the earlier MO list, and here my parting thoughts with it so far. Trauma Doc seems to be a target numero uno for some reason, yet the Magister Knight was a terror. I really want more than one now.

First game was against Ariadne, which everything had camo or mimmetism. Man without a way to deal with camo, it's an uphill battle to deal with those buggers.

Second was against Haqqislam and man that was a brutally awesome game. The Magister Knight got a lot work done in this game cruising up the board and cutting people in half.

The third and final game was against Nomads and man, hacking is pretty damn mean.

I really apppreciate that one of our local veterans came down and wanted to show me that I shouldn't fear anything, instead I'll need to learn how to face against it. However, I'll need to brush up on some rules before next weekend's demo day.

I just picked up the hospitaller, De Fersen, Joan and a spitfire sergeant.

Man the size difference on some of these models are telling.

I can't decide if I want to use De Fersen or Joan in my next game.

sqir666 wrote:
I really apppreciate that one of our local veterans came down and wanted to show me that I shouldn't fear anything, instead I'll need to learn how to face against it. However, I'll need to brush up on some rules before next weekend's demo day.

You'll usually find that Infinity players are a pretty good lot. And he's right - you don't actually have to fear anything you face. You're rarely, if ever, going to face a list and simply not be able to win. But as you play more games against people, you'll learn the tricks available to deal with those situations.

For example, taking a camo spam army against a new player is low. But next time you face him you might be packing an Aquila Guard, who will see right through the camo. Or you might realize you have flamers or chain rifles and can speculative fire those camo markers down.

 -Loki- wrote:
For example, taking a camo spam army against a new player is low. But next time you face him you might be packing an Aquila Guard, who will see right through the camo. Or you might realize you have flamers or chain rifles and can speculative fire those camo markers down.

It's funny, because the first list I ever built was a 120 point Combined Army list where every single model was either a camo token or hidden deployed. This was before I really knew much about the game other than "those Shasvastii aliens seem pretty cool. Let's build a list with them." I didn't think too much of it, kind of figuring every army had the same camo access as they did, but people might chose not to use it. Then I deployed for my first game and the guy across the table from me looked like I had a third arm growing out of my head or something. That was when I learned the "100% camo token army" isn't the normal way to play the game.

See, a new player bringing an all camo Shasvastii list, even against another new player, I have no problem with. The Shasvastii player is learning (and well, for his chosen faction), and so is the other new player. They'll both make mistakes and learn the game.

A veteran bringing an all camo list against a new player... eeh. I don't agree with it. I know a lot of new players don't appreciate you pulling punches, but there is a limit, in my opinion. An all camo list against a new player exceeds that limit. Not only because they won't know the tricks to deal with it, but it will make a starting game needlessly more complicated and the veteran player knows the new player won't know how to play against it.

 -Loki- wrote:
See, a new player bringing an all camo Shasvastii list, even against another new player, I have no problem with. The Shasvastii player is learning (and well, for his chosen faction), and so is the other new player. They'll both make mistakes and learn the game.

A veteran bringing an all camo list against a new player... eeh. I don't agree with it. I know a lot of new players don't appreciate you pulling punches, but there is a limit, in my opinion. An all camo list against a new player exceeds that limit. Not only because they won't know the tricks to deal with it, but it will make a starting game needlessly more complicated and the veteran player knows the new player won't know how to play against it.

So far only a fellow new player had an all camo force. He seems locked into the idea that having all that camo will win him games, but soon we're going to learn scenarios.

Also, the local veteran seems to want me to learn how to deal with various things like camo and hacking which I really enjoy so far. I hope that the rest of the local veterans are that same way. Sadly, due to other circumsatnces I keep misiing the local game day in my area. Next month I might actually get to join in the mayhem, but by that time I might have most of my stuff painted.

Speaking of which, I need to get cracking and start showing evryone my horrible paint skills.