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The rule book says you need to have the models, if you don't the excess is absorbed back into the Warp, but do you interpret this rule literally? Do I need to buy and paint an excessive amount of Daemons that are never deployed on a traditional sense, or can I use counts-as? Or, should I never actually deploy the Daemons I do own, spend the points elsewhere, and then hope I can summon them?

You must have models to represent your summoned units. If you don't want to buy and build lots of chaos daemon models, you'd better have some good scratchbuilds instead. Some damn good scratchbuilds.

All depends on how comfortable your opponent is with your "counts-as".

Especially considering how goofy so many of the GW Daemon models are, I'd have absolutely no problem playing against "counts-as", as long as they looked like demons.

I understand the rule exists to put some kind of limit on Daemon factories, but it just seems like a pretty egregious example of the game favouring those with bigger wallets.

No question there...but, I mean, would you want play against a Daemon factory that pumps out Daemon troops that are Space Marines models...or pennies?

IMO, as a matter of taste and immersion, there should be at least some correlation between what you have on the board and what its supposed to represent.

Im using these as my flesh hounds of Khorne http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Chaos-Warhounds about 1/4 the price for 10 actual flesh hounds from GW.

Yes, yes and yes. If you want to use an aspect of a game, you better be able to represent it. If you cannot field enough models to be summoned, you need to consider another army list / concept.

 calamarialldayerrday wrote:
The rule book says you need to have the models, if you don't the excess is absorbed back into the Warp, but do you interpret this rule literally? Do I need to buy and paint an excessive amount of Daemons that are never deployed on a traditional sense, or can I use counts-as? Or, should I never actually deploy the Daemons I do own, spend the points elsewhere, and then hope I can summon them?

You should ... just not play Demon factory IMHO.

If you think it's "excessive" amount of models to build and paint - how do you think your opponent feels about having to fight them - let alone having to fight magical slips of paper, and demonic Coke cans.

In my club, conjured/summoned models can be counts as, but no proxies.

Is this also tricxk to sell chaos codex's, as you cannot deploy the deamons minus rules.....

I am very much pro WYSIWYG, but I just wanted the opinions of others on this. While I do feel that way, I'm a little on the fence about it, as the rules do ask that you deploy the units, and you're hampering yourself by not having them.

It makes sense, but I feel we'll never really see what a Daemon Factory can really do unless someone has access to a lot of models.

 calamarialldayerrday wrote:
It makes sense, but I feel we'll never really see what a Daemon Factory can really do unless someone has access to a lot of models.

The same could be said about any horde army.


Yes, you need the models if you want to use those models.

If you are going to play Demon factory, especially if you are going to play demon factory with any other army other than CSM or CD, you need to have the models.

 calamarialldayerrday wrote:
It just seems like a pretty egregious example of the game favouring those with bigger wallets.

It has long been so. New OP Codex? You know there's that guy in the club who will dump 500€ on it immediately, not because he cares one bit about the background or fluff but because he likes winning and has mathhammered the new Codex already.

I have no problem with a large amount of models, I love them, it's just that I paint at such a glacial rate that I'm trying to reduce how much new models I paint.

Buy lots of Bloodletters. Spraypaint them red.

Done.

 Psienesis wrote:
Buy lots of Bloodletters. Spraypaint them red.

Done.

What Psi said. Red spray, yellow eyes, silver blade, brass hilt, simple wash or even mass-dipping and you can have lots of Bletters painted in no time for very basic tabletop level.

Also - yes, I too think that one should have all the models he wants to use in his army and unless I hear my opponent is in progress of collecting them as justification, I will not accept even count-asses, let alone proxies like coins or counters. This game is pretty much all about miniatures so everyone that wants to be taken seriously should have(either through purchasing, scratchbuilding or converting) them.

I dont play 40k much, but for fantasy the general rule at my FLGS is that if you are creating a new squad, you need models for that new squad, but if you're just expanding on an old one, just use dice or some such as counters.

Or find a friend with a Daemon army.

How did it work for Tervigons? Was there ever a rule saying that if you didn't have the models, you can't spawn more?

Once only as a general rule. If you are trying out a new build and want to see how it works, then fine proxies or counts as.

But if you are being serious about using it all the time, better start buying and painting.

Cheers

Andrew

 milkboy wrote:
Or find a friend with a Daemon army.

How did it work for Tervigons? Was there ever a rule saying that if you didn't have the models, you can't spawn more?

Yeah, atleast during 5th ed there was.

I'm fine with counts as models that relatively resemble demons.

If you want to run daemon factory, cool. Hope you have you some models, or some damn good counts as substitutes.