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 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
It's quite easy to judge the amount of energy exerted on something (well in a movie, and "easy" is relative, as it's better than going off scant information), as normal organic matter is fairly similar across the board.

Fairly similar? Xenomorph can survive in space, and in melted metal. That is not by any way something I would expect from “normal organic matter”.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Xenomorph chitin in the movies for example doesn't seem to be worth a damn besides pressurization.

What if that is just your impression because actually pulse rifle are super-duper powerful?

 Wyzilla wrote:
But fictional materials can be relatively judged going by what they survive, like Astartes power armor tanking a battlecannon shot that destroyed ten (square IIRC) meters of concrete reinforced by rebar.

That… is quite ridiculous. Who wrote that gak, and where?

For one, Tardigrades are capable of surviving in the vacuum of space. It's not exactly revolutionary that organic tissue can survive exposure. Space is just absolute zero pressurization and radiation. The Xenomorph just needs its body to be self-contained and have a chitin coating with the materials or thickness to protect itself from radiation bombarding it. That's it. It's an interesting idea, but it's not "STOP THE PRESSES" level of revolutionary evolution. Circulation-wise Xenomorphs probably are similar to flatworms on some level.

Come to think of it, I wonder if flatworms could survive in a vacuum.

And when the hell did we see a Xenomorph survive in melted metal? That Predalien was likely just some freakish mutant considering it doesn't look like any previous Predalien encountered, not to mention that Xenomorphs die to small arms fire and plasma, the lava would have logically killed any other Xenormoph, or else they'd all be immune to heat weapons. Which we know they aren't, considering flamethrowers kill them.

The one they dropped molten lead (?) on in A3 survived briefly, iirc, but that's not particularly impressive, lead liquifies at a fairly low temperature.

 Psienesis wrote:
The one they dropped molten lead (?) on in A3 survived briefly, iirc, but that's not particularly impressive, lead liquifies at a fairly low temperature.

Oh, Alien 3. I try to forget it exists. I thought he was talking about the Predalien that swam through lava in AVP 2010.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
It's quite easy to judge the amount of energy exerted on something (well in a movie, and "easy" is relative, as it's better than going off scant information), as normal organic matter is fairly similar across the board.

Fairly similar? Xenomorph can survive in space, and in melted metal. That is not by any way something I would expect from “normal organic matter”.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Xenomorph chitin in the movies for example doesn't seem to be worth a damn besides pressurization.

What if that is just your impression because actually pulse rifle are super-duper powerful?

 Wyzilla wrote:
But fictional materials can be relatively judged going by what they survive, like Astartes power armor tanking a battlecannon shot that destroyed ten (square IIRC) meters of concrete reinforced by rebar.

That… is quite ridiculous. Who wrote that gak, and where?

For one, Tardigrades are capable of surviving in the vacuum of space. It's not exactly revolutionary that organic tissue can survive exposure. Space is just absolute zero pressurization and radiation. The Xenomorph just needs its body to be self-contained and have a chitin coating with the materials or thickness to protect itself from radiation bombarding it. That's it. It's an interesting idea, but it's not "STOP THE PRESSES" level of revolutionary evolution. Circulation-wise Xenomorphs probably are similar to flatworms on some level.

Come to think of it, I wonder if flatworms could survive in a vacuum.

And when the hell did we see a Xenomorph survive in melted metal? That Predalien was likely just some freakish mutant considering it doesn't look like any previous Predalien encountered, not to mention that Xenomorphs die to small arms fire and plasma, the lava would have logically killed any other Xenormoph, or else they'd all be immune to heat weapons. Which we know they aren't, considering flamethrowers kill them.

As far as I remember flamethrowers have only been used to toast the eggs and keep them at bay. In A2 the flamer seemed to have zero effect on the queen apart from pissing her off that her eggs were getting toasted.

 Formosa wrote:
Why is everyone trying to compare the pulse rifle to a boltgun?

The thread is aliens and preds in the 40k universe, so 40k universe rules and physics apply, the pulse rifle is an auto gun and as such is functionally identical to a las gun. Because the universe isn't real we use the only thing that tells us the power of these weapons.

Lasgun str 1d10 +1 range 100m pen 1
Autogun str1d10 +1 range 80m pen 1

Lasgun str 3 ap- 24"
Autogun str3 ap- 24"

So useing deathwatch and 40k we can see that they are identical.

The problem is we can't really say that the pulse rifle in AVP is an auto gun. We would need to determine roughly how powerful the pulse rifle is and compare it with the strengths and weaknesses of the various WH40K weapons. For all we know, those pulse rifles could be similar to plasma guns.

 Happyjew wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Why is everyone trying to compare the pulse rifle to a boltgun?

The thread is aliens and preds in the 40k universe, so 40k universe rules and physics apply, the pulse rifle is an auto gun and as such is functionally identical to a las gun. Because the universe isn't real we use the only thing that tells us the power of these weapons.

Lasgun str 1d10 +1 range 100m pen 1
Autogun str1d10 +1 range 80m pen 1

Lasgun str 3 ap- 24"
Autogun str3 ap- 24"

So useing deathwatch and 40k we can see that they are identical.

The problem is we can't really say that the pulse rifle in AVP is an auto gun. We would need to determine roughly how powerful the pulse rifle is and compare it with the strengths and weaknesses of the various WH40K weapons. For all we know, those pulse rifles could be similar to plasma guns.

Eh.... probably not. The Aliens universe presents most of its military hardware in terms and measurements that exist in the real world. While a 10mm assault rifle isn't common IRL (it's an SMG round), we have weapons that chamber something not terribly different. While explosive bullets aren't common, they do exist, and thus have rateable effects. Same with armor-piercing bullets.

 Formosa wrote:
Why is everyone trying to compare the pulse rifle to a boltgun?

The thread is aliens and preds in the 40k universe, so 40k universe rules and physics apply, the pulse rifle is an auto gun and as such is functionally identical to a las gun. Because the universe isn't real we use the only thing that tells us the power of these weapons.

Lasgun str 1d10 +1 range 100m pen 1
Autogun str1d10 +1 range 80m pen 1

Lasgun str 3 ap- 24"
Autogun str3 ap- 24"

So useing deathwatch and 40k we can see that they are identical.

Those are table top rules, which are exclusively a part of the game and only matter if you're playing xenomorphs on the tabletop. Or do you seriously think every single autogun is the same, and thus the SCAR-H is the exact same and no different than any other tacticool rifle? Do you realize that lasguns and autoguns are nothing alike due to one being a DEW and the other a KE weapon, and that the damage each gun inflicts depends entirely on numerous variables?

Tabletop rules are 40k. They simply reflect the game itself, not the universe, the two are mutually exclusive. The rules contribute feth all to the discussion as they're too simplistic for the numerous ways in which a weapon actually behaves and how we've seen them behave.

Lasguns are actually thermo-kinetic. There's a punch as well as a blast of heat.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Why is everyone trying to compare the pulse rifle to a boltgun?

The thread is aliens and preds in the 40k universe, so 40k universe rules and physics apply, the pulse rifle is an auto gun and as such is functionally identical to a las gun. Because the universe isn't real we use the only thing that tells us the power of these weapons.

Lasgun str 1d10 +1 range 100m pen 1
Autogun str1d10 +1 range 80m pen 1

Lasgun str 3 ap- 24"
Autogun str3 ap- 24"

So useing deathwatch and 40k we can see that they are identical.

The problem is we can't really say that the pulse rifle in AVP is an auto gun. We would need to determine roughly how powerful the pulse rifle is and compare it with the strengths and weaknesses of the various WH40K weapons. For all we know, those pulse rifles could be similar to plasma guns.

Eh.... probably not. The Aliens universe presents most of its military hardware in terms and measurements that exist in the real world. While a 10mm assault rifle isn't common IRL (it's an SMG round), we have weapons that chamber something not terribly different. While explosive bullets aren't common, they do exist, and thus have rateable effects. Same with armor-piercing bullets.

I agree it probably isn't similar to a plasma gun, I was just using that as an example. However, my point does stand. We would have to figure out the sort of energy output and effective range, etc. of the pulse rifles as well as the various weapons of WH40K-verse. Pulse rifls are relatively easy. WH40K weapons...damn near impossible.

 Psienesis wrote:
Lasguns are actually thermo-kinetic. There's a punch as well as a blast of heat.

Gotta love esoteric lasguns. Sometimes they're DEW, other times they're explosive energy. Although, not that surprising given the Imperium which rarely standardizes anything. I'm sure there's one planet in the IOM that makes toasters out of wood.

How else will they get their fiber?

 Wyzilla wrote:
For one, Tardigrades are capable of surviving in the vacuum of space. It's not exactly revolutionary that organic tissue can survive exposure.

Yeah, but that AND melted metal? Seems quite resistant to me.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
For one, Tardigrades are capable of surviving in the vacuum of space. It's not exactly revolutionary that organic tissue can survive exposure.

Yeah, but that AND melted metal? Seems quite resistant to me.

Except again, melted metal doesn't require outlandishly high temperatures, especially for lead, and the Predalien was a wholly unique individual for several reasons that does not represent the capabilities of Xenomorphs at all. Plus the Dog Alien still died, so no, they're not resistant. Lead becomes molten at only something like 650 Degrees Fahrenheit. It's not that impressive. Just for an example, a napalm flamethrower generates a temperature of anywhere between 1,500-2,000 degrees F. Xenos would be smoked, literally.

Happyjew wrote:I agree it probably isn't similar to a plasma gun, I was just using that as an example. However, my point does stand. We would have to figure out the sort of energy output and effective range, etc. of the pulse rifles as well as the various weapons of WH40K-verse. Pulse rifls are relatively easy. WH40K weapons...damn near impossible.

That is something in the Aliens IP's favor. It's fairly consistent (though not visually, in the films, but that's not that important) in what the various entities within it are capable of. In the AVP comics, pulse rifles don't go from mowing down Xenos by the hundreds in one issue and then bouncing harmlessly off in the next (as lasguns and bolters both can in BL fiction).

 Wyzilla wrote:
Except again, melted metal doesn't require outlandishly high temperatures, especially for lead

Would you swim in melted lead?
Just what I thought!

 Wyzilla wrote:
Plus the Dog Alien still died, so no, they're not resistant.

.
I am amazed at your definition of “not resistant”.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Lead becomes molten at only something like 650 Degrees Fahrenheit. It's not that impressive. Just for an example, a napalm flamethrower generates a temperature of anywhere between 1,500-2,000 degrees F. Xenos would be smoked, literally.

Yeah, I would not be so sure. Notably because stuff like VHC may play a role here.

Orks would make mincemeet out of aliens orks spores would outgrow parasites, and Orks would probably survive a chest burster as would space marines, and if a planet would be infested, the imperium would have no problem to call in exterminatus.

Also it would be funny if the alien ship that caried the eggs would crash on a necron tomb world

I think that the aliens will be a minor thing, maybe every once and awhile, they might actually be a threat, I doubt that. Preds would be a little more interesting to see in the 40k universe, but once again they would be a small threat compared to other races.

 the shrouded lord wrote:
.

oesn't the pressurisation cause your head to instantly explode?

If you did not first bake or freeze to death, depending on where, exactly, in space you are. Explosive decompression simply isn't something that happens in a vacuum, though.

 Psienesis wrote:
If you did not first bake or freeze to death, depending on where, exactly, in space you are. Explosive decompression simply isn't something that happens in a vacuum, though.

"Space," says the introduction to The Hitchhiker's Guide, "is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is." A-a-and so on. It also says that if you hold a lungful of air, you can survive in the total vacuum of space for about 30 seconds. But with space being really big and all, the chances of being picked up within that time are 22,079,460,347 to one against. Strangely, this is also the telephone number of an Islington flat where Arthur Dent went to a fancy dress party, and met a very nice young woman whom he totally blew it with. Though the planet Earth, the Islington flat and the telephone have all now been demolished, it is comforting to reflect that they are all, in some small way, commemorated by the fact that 29 seconds later, Arthur and Ford were, in fact, rescued.

Damn you Furyou, you beat me to it.

IIRC the last thing you want to do in space is hold your breath. Doing so will cause your lungs to rupture like a popped balloon.

A Space Marine could hold a Xenomorph to the ground and make it play uncle.

 Psienesis wrote:
A 20mm cannon is incredibly destructive. With DPU rounds, it shred tanks.

Not really...
They CAN penetrate armor...but...
The stats I can find are
20mm Soloturn: 35mm RHAe penetration at 300m with AP round
20mm Lahti: 40mm RHAe penetration at 60 degree obliquity at unknown range with APCR rounds
20mm DM-43 rounds: 40mm RHAe penetration at 1km
20mm DM-63 rounds: 44mm RHAe penetration at 1km
20mm HVAP Rh-202 cannon: 34mm RHAe penetration at 1 km
20mm RH202: DM43 API-T ammo 55mm RHAe penetration @ 2 KM
20mm RH202: DM63 APDS-T ammo 60mm RHAe penetration @ 2 KM
20mm RH202: DM81 HE-I-T ammo 20mm RHAe penetration @ 2 KM
25x137 Oerlikon APDS - 30mm penetration/60°/1000m, 25mm penetration/60°/2000m
25x137 Oerlikon APFSDS - 36mm penetration/60mm°/1000m, 31mm penetration/60°/2000m
25x137 Alliant APFSDS FANG - 31mm penetration/60°/2000m

30x173 Mk268 APFSDS - 55mm penetration/60°/1000m
30x173 Oerlikon FAPDS - 31mm penetration/60°/1000m, 25mm penetration/60°/2000m

30x173 PGU-14 - 69mm penetration at 500 meters 38mm penetration at 1000 meters at 90°, presumably, but the actual penetration is about 25% higher.


Even taking the best penetration of 69 mm RHAe penetration and doubling it to 138mm and rounding up to 150mm penetration...it would be hard pressed to penetrate the frontal armor of a T-55 tank, which is pretty much useless in modern terms...
T55 armor: hull front 100 mm @60°, turret front 205 mm (rounded), hull side 80 mm @0°, lower hull side 20 mm @0°, turret side 130 mm (rounded), hull rear 60 mm @0°, turret rear 60 mm (rounded), hull top 33-16 mm, turret top 30 mm, hull floor 20 mm

Most modern tanks have upwards of 500mm RHAe armor on the frontal armor...so no...20mm weapons do NOT shred tanks...

They CAN get mobility kills if they are able to hit the rear deck and penetrate the rear armor AND damage the engine..but there will be no "shredding of tanks" with 20mm weaponry, at least not in engagements from the front. Can they inflict damage, yes, but only if the tank unit commander is a gak and has no idea of combined arms or tactics and gets flanked and somehow doesn't know enough to pivot steer and do a retrograde...

-STS