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 Neorealist wrote:
In the OPs scenario the movement rule is 'forcing' you to end your movement there. (well, it would be if not for that 2nd clause in the skimmer movement rules)

Untrue.
What in the OP is causing the skimmer to move in the first place? Or end its move anywhere other than where it began?
There is no circumstance requiring the Ark to move over the enemy units. None. Zero. Aside from your insistence that is.

 Neorealist wrote:
I think it should be an axiom that if you have to pick between two interpretations, one of which has a given rule do absolutely nothing and one of which doesn't, the latter one should be given preference.

...

I disagree. There is no fundamental principle to choice action over inaction in such situations.

The flying base is about 3 inches across. It is easily possible to begin moving 1 inch from an enemy model and not be able to end moving more than 1 inch from an enemy model. Your 12 inch move is only seven inches after deduction of the safe area and the width or the base,

If this happens, the model cannot make that move. If all similar moves give the same result it would not be able to move at all.

40K is just a game after all. The rules may not make sense realistically but they are the rules even so.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Neorealist wrote:
In the OPs scenario the movement rule is 'forcing' you to end your movement there. (well, it would be if not for that 2nd clause in the skimmer movement rules)

Untrue.
What in the OP is causing the skimmer to move in the first place? Or end its move anywhere other than where it began?
There is no circumstance requiring the Ark to move over the enemy units. None. Zero. Aside from your insistence that is.

Nothing needs to require the skimmer to move, nor dictate the path it takes to get there; so presumably the whims of the player?

There is no rule saying the player must be forced to move the model over the enemy unit in order to invoke the skimmer movement rules. none-whatsoever.

 Neorealist wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Neorealist wrote:
In the OPs scenario the movement rule is 'forcing' you to end your movement there. (well, it would be if not for that 2nd clause in the skimmer movement rules)

Untrue.
What in the OP is causing the skimmer to move in the first place? Or end its move anywhere other than where it began?
There is no circumstance requiring the Ark to move over the enemy units. None. Zero. Aside from your insistence that is.

Nothing needs to require the skimmer to move, nor dictate the path it takes to get there; so presumably the whims of the player?

There is no rule saying the player must be forced to move the model over the enemy unit in order to invoke the skimmer movement rules. none-whatsoever.

Except the rule requiring you to be forced to end your movement over an enemy unit to slide off of it?
Yeah, nothing in there requiring anything to be forced at all.

Sure you have to be forced to 'end' your movement in that situation. Not be forced to 'begin' your movement nor any restriction on the path that movement must take like you've been incorrectly implying.

 Neorealist wrote:
Sure you have to be forced to 'end' your movement in that situation. Not be forced to 'begin' your movement nor any restriction on the path that movement must take like you've been incorrectly implying.

I'm still not clear on what is forcing you to end your movement on top of that enemy unit when there's an open space right there, inside your movement distance.
What circumstances require (your definition, not mine) you to stop movement over that enemy unit?

Having moved the maximum possible distance (12", typically) already in that movement phase. You do not have to choose to move your skimmer to an open space, you merely have to end up in one.

It is perfectly legal RAW to move the skimmer over the enemy unit and then be forced to stop moving it further via the interaction of one rule or another. (and have yet another rule override that stop and move your model further for that matter)

 Neorealist wrote:
Having moved the maximum possible distance (12", typically) already in that movement phase. You do not have to choose to move your skimmer to an open space, you merely have to end up in one.

What forced you to end your move over that unit?
Note that simply "running out of movement" isn't enough.

It is perfectly fine to measure a unit’s move in one direction, and then change your mind and decide to move it somewhere else (even the opposite way entirely!) or decide not to move it at all

Meaning that you measure, see that you'd end your movement over an enemy unit (which is illegal) and be unable to move there.
So please - show another reason.

It is perfectly legal RAW to move the skimmer over the enemy unit and then be forced to stop moving it further via the interaction of one rule or another. (and have yet another rule override that stop and move your model further for that matter)

It is perfectly legal to do that if you're forced to stop.
Simply moving there on your own volition isn't forcing you to stop there.

Being able to change your mind on when and where to move a model does not mean you can move it more than it's maximum movement distance nor that you cannot move it over an enemy unit. the official rule is this: "...In your turn, you can move any of your units – all of them if you wish – up to their maximum movement distance..." but it is modified by the vehicle and skimmer movement rules to include a 12" cruising speed move over enemy units as well.

Say for example if I move a ghost ark 12". Am I forced to stop moving it at that point in the movement phase, or can in continue to move it another 72"?

 Neorealist wrote:
Being able to change your mind on when and where to move a model does not mean you can move it more than it's maximum movement distance nor that you cannot move it over an enemy unit. the official rule is this: "...In your turn, you can move any of your units – all of them if you wish – up to their maximum movement distance..." but it is modified by the vehicle and skimmer movement rules to include a 12" cruising speed move over enemy units as well.

Say for example if I move a ghost ark 12". Am I forced to stop moving it at that point in the movement phase, or can in continue to move it another 72"?

If it's a legal move, you stop at 12". Since it's not, you can't move there.
Stopping over an enemy unit is not a legal move.
Your assertion is that it doesn't have to be a legal move - it just has to end up being a legal move.

I've never said that being able to change your mind means you can move it extra. Not sure why you brought that up - you're the one asserting you get free movement.
You are not forced to end your movement over an enemy unit. You've chosen to end your movement over an enemy unit. Do you understand the difference?

rigeld2 wrote:If it's a legal move, you stop at 12". Since it's not, you can't move there.
Stopping over an enemy unit is not a legal move.
Your assertion is that it doesn't have to be a legal move - it just has to end up being a legal move.

I've never said that being able to change your mind means you can move it extra. Not sure why you brought that up - you're the one asserting you get free movement.
You are not forced to end your movement over an enemy unit. You've chosen to end your movement over an enemy unit. Do you understand the difference?

Where are you getting your definition of a 'legal move' from?

my point was that reaching the maximum distance a model may move in a movement phase forces you to stop moving that model, regardless of what you would otherwise intend to do with it. With that in mind, it is a legal move to move the skimmer over an enemy model. Since this is perfectly legal, and it's also perfectly legal to be forced to stop moving that model when it has reached it's maximum distance, 'and' there is no specific rule forcing you to select a specific destination or path for that vehicle to travel...

You end up where we are now, with an obvious RAW scenario that is equally obviously broken or unclear in at least one fundamental way.

 Neorealist wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:If it's a legal move, you stop at 12". Since it's not, you can't move there.
Stopping over an enemy unit is not a legal move.
Your assertion is that it doesn't have to be a legal move - it just has to end up being a legal move.

I've never said that being able to change your mind means you can move it extra. Not sure why you brought that up - you're the one asserting you get free movement.
You are not forced to end your movement over an enemy unit. You've chosen to end your movement over an enemy unit. Do you understand the difference?

Where are you getting your definition of a 'legal move' from?

A move that doesn't violate any rules.
It's not more than 12" from your starting point.
It's not over an enemy unit.
Etc.

my point was that reaching the maximum distance a model may move in a movement phase forces you to stop moving that model, regardless of what you would otherwise intend to do with it. With that in mind, it is a legal move to move the skimmer over an enemy model. Since this is perfectly legal, and it's also perfectly legal to be forced to stop moving that model when it has reached it's maximum distance, 'and' there is no specific rule forcing you to select a specific destination or path for that vehicle to travel...

You end up where we are now, with an obvious RAW scenario that is equally obviously broken or unclear in at least one fundamental way.

The underlined simply isn't true. You can absolutely - per the rules - take back that move and do something else. You can repeat that until you say "Welp. Done moving that."
At that point you have an illegal move, using your argument. Because nothing - not a single rule - forced that move on you.

Perhaps I should have been more clear: Where are you getting 'From the Rule Book' the definition of a 'legal move' you seem to be adhering to? it's time for some quotes if you please.

The rules directly contradict your stance that you can take back or change your move once you have done it.
"...Once you have started moving a unit, you must finish its move before you start to move another unit..."
"...it is perfectly fine to measure a unit’s move in one direction, and then change your mind and decide to move it somewhere else (even the opposite way entirely!) or decide not to move it at all..."

So while you can measure a move and change your mind about moving the model entirely if you wish, you cannot change the move once it has been started.

 Neorealist wrote:
Perhaps I should have been more clear: Where are you getting 'From the Rule Book' the definition of a 'legal move' you seem to be adhering to? it's time for some quotes if you please.

You're given permission to move in certain ways. Anything outside of that would be an "illegal move". Since it's not according to the rules and all.

The rules directly contradict your stance that you can take back or change your move once you have done it.
"...Once you have started moving a unit, you must finish its move before you start to move another unit..."
"...it is perfectly fine to measure a unit’s move in one direction, and then change your mind and decide to move it somewhere else (even the opposite way entirely!) or decide not to move it at all..."

So while you can measure a move and change your mind about moving the model entirely if you wish, you cannot change the move once it has been started.

First of all, nothing in what you quoted "directly contradict[s]" my stance. Yes, once you start moving a unit you have to finish moving it before moving another unit. Where have I said otherwise? Quote it or agree that citation is irrelevant.

As you move the models in a unit, they can be turned to face in any direction, but if a model does move, no part of its base can finish the move more than 6" away from where it started the Movement phase.

I declare I'm moving this Tac Squad. I move 3 models. I decide this is a bad direction to go and decide to move the unit in another direction, moving those 3 models back and then the other direction.

Cite the rule I broke. The unit's move can be measured in one direction and then changed entirely. The unit includes models - which can be turned any which way. A decision that can be changed any time while moving the unit.

Also, again, please stop using yellow. I know you're going to say "Tough, deal with it." but I have to ask. It's literally impossible for me to read on a white background.

Yes you are. However that permission extends to moving your skimmers over enemy units. You seem to be indicating there is some additional restriction to the effect of you having to select a legal place to move your model as part of it's movement that would prohibit you from even moving the model in the first place if no such place existed within the models' maximum movement range. What I am asking for is an actual rule that backs that assertion up.

As you wish:

rigeld2 wrote:You can absolutely - per the rules - take back that move and do something else.

Are you not saying here you can take back a move and do something else entirely (your example with the tac marines certainly seems to indicate such)? As that simply isn't true. You can certainly decide not to move or measure differently while you are 'measuring', but after you have started moving it is entirely too late to change things even if you do not then like the results of that move.

I'd suggest using a different colour background and or highlighting the relevant text to change it's colour temporarily. I can relate to your technical issues with the colour yellow, but regrettably it is easier for me to read and format my thoughts on a black background (the default dakka dakka one) with the colour.

 Neorealist wrote:
Yes you are. However that permission extends to moving your skimmers over enemy units. You seem to be indicating there is some additional restriction to the effect of you having to select a legal place to move your model as part of it's movement that would prohibit you from even moving the model in the first place if no such place existed within the models' maximum movement range. What I am asking for is an actual rule that backs that assertion up.

Yes, moving your model requires a legal place for the model to move to.
If it didn't, then you'd have only illegal places for the model to move to. Since it's illegal, there's no permission to move there.

As you wish:

rigeld2 wrote:You can absolutely - per the rules - take back that move and do something else.

Are you not saying here you can take back a move and do something else entirely (your example with the tac marines certainly seems to indicate such)? As that simply isn't true. You can certainly decide not to move or measure differently while you are 'measuring', but after you have started moving it is entirely too late to change things even if you do not then like the results of that move.

If you haven't finished the move, yes. As you measure for every model,

Once you’ve completed a unit’s move, you cannot go back and change it, so think carefully before giving the order to advance.

Once you've completed a unit's move. Not model.

It is perfectly fine to measure a unit’s move in one direction, and then change your mind and decide to move it somewhere else (even the opposite way entirely!) or decide not to move it at all.

Measure all the models in one direction, move part of the unit, then change your mind and decide to move it (the unit) somewhere else. Remember, there's a distinct difference between unit and model. As you have permission to move the entire unit somewhere else, that gives you permission to un-move the models you've already moved.