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So, some thoughts based on old editions, forge world rules, and others' suggestions.

I'm trying to keep this pretty minimal. Hoping to do something reasonably balanced for casual games. Thoughts?

Restrictions
-All models that can take VotLW must take it.
-No Cult models (Thousand Sons, etc.) may be taken
-Only NL characters may be taken (i.e. none currently)
-No more than half of unit/model choices may have Marks and/or the Daemon rule
-If Night Lords are taken as the main detachment, the army can't take fortifications
-Daemons are desperate allies

New Rules
-Any model may exchange a power weapon for a chain glaive (from HH): S+1, AP3, 2-handed, rending
-Models with VotLW gain Fear and Night Vision
-Storm Eagles, Anvillus, can be taken as Relic of the Armory choices

Night Lords Warlord traits (see codex: CSM)
1-2 Master of Deception
3-4 Hatred Incarnate
5-6 Lord of Terror

Not sure how you're gona figure out half the units/models. Will you count those models that can't take marks like vehicles? Will your 30 khorne cultists totally disallow marks on anything else?

I'd either let them take a limited selection of cult troops to represent stragglers they picked up (And no marks at all), or let them all have marks (and not let them pick cult troops).

Either way, I'd give them more than just Fear and Night Vision to make up for these restrictions, and lose the chain glaive too. Make Sevatars chain glaive an artefact and leave it at that.

Maybe give their chosen infiltrate to make up for the losses. This would give them an edge that isn't very situational (Night Vision), or just not very good (Fear) to make up for the loss of marks/cult troops.

And if you're going down this route, replace the Champion of Chaos rule with something that involves running away. Something like an extra die when falling back.

Raptors as Troops is the obvious one.

Forcing night fight (maybe a warlord trait)

Morale checks for all nearby enemy units when Night Lords wipe out a unit in melee.

koooael, I meant half the entries- ex: a lord is one model, a unit of chosen is one unit.

a fat guy, not sure what you mean about stragglers. I like the artefact idea. I was hesitant to give them anything so substantially good as infiltrate.... if so, I was thinking just giving it to chosen/maybe again mirror the HH books and effectively give them infiltrating chosen as troops?

The theory with fear and nightfight was night fight was situational, and fear or hatred: SM would, combined, cover most games.

On removing champion of chaos, my worry about that is basically that not all night lords are the less-corrupted variety, and it feels like if you really want to have chaos with few marks, no champion rule, and few daemons, it would be easier to house rule from marines or legion lists, which felt like something too far removed from the original aim. I appreciate that GW is trying to make CSM not just Marines with spikes.


lord_blackfang, someone made the suggestion elsewhere that lords in jump packs or bikes would get their respective type as troops, like captains in space marines, but I'm not really seeing night lords as such a jump troop force- again, it would be easier to take BA or one of the chapter tactics than such a major change in codex: CSM, esp. with 7th edition's free-for-all modes.

Is there a precedent for a night-fighting warlord trait?

I like the forced morale check thing.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
koooael, I meant half the entries- ex: a lord is one model, a unit of chosen is one unit.

a fat guy, not sure what you mean about stragglers. I like the artefact idea. I was hesitant to give them anything so substantially good as infiltrate.... if so, I was thinking just giving it to chosen/maybe again mirror the HH books and effectively give them infiltrating chosen as troops?

The theory with fear and nightfight was night fight was situational, and fear or hatred: SM would, combined, cover most games.

On removing champion of chaos, my worry about that is basically that not all night lords are the less-corrupted variety, and it feels like if you really want to have chaos with few marks, no champion rule, and few daemons, it would be easier to house rule from marines or legion lists, which felt like something too far removed from the original aim. I appreciate that GW is trying to make CSM not just Marines with spikes.


lord_blackfang, someone made the suggestion elsewhere that lords in jump packs or bikes would get their respective type as troops, like captains in space marines, but I'm not really seeing night lords as such a jump troop force- again, it would be easier to take BA or one of the chapter tactics than such a major change in codex: CSM, esp. with 7th edition's free-for-all modes.

Is there a precedent for a night-fighting warlord trait?

I like the forced morale check thing.

How about giving them a pregame ability. All enemy models must take an Unmodified leadership test or be pinned for there first turn.

it would be very fluffy, to show the panic and fear the night lords sew before they even attack.

and for the night fighting, there isn't precedence for a trait doing it that I know of, but there is War gear that does it so a trait granting Night Fight for the first turn isn't too crazy in my opinion

Sounds good, I like the old pinning rule (IIRC, those specialist eldar rangers had a variant of that).

How much is the night fight wargear?That's a good precedent, but don't want to mimic a very expensive piece of gear.

I don't feel like the bonuses you get are worth the quite heavy restrictions. My 2c. Sorry I don't have any helpful suggestions right now.

Sure.

Altered, changes highlighted. Thoughts on version 2?

Restrictions
-All models that can take VotLW must take it.
-Only NL characters may be taken (i.e. none currently)
-No more than half of unit choices (i.e. each force org entry, so a squad and transport counts as 1) may have Marks and/or the Daemon rule
-If Night Lords are taken as the main detachment, the army can't take fortifications
-Daemons are desperate allies
-Your Warlord can't have a mark

New Rules
-Any model may exchange a power weapon for a chain glaive (from HH): S+1, AP3, 2-handed, rending
-Models with VotLW gain Fear and Night Vision
-Storm Eagles, Khararybids, can be taken as Relic of the Armory choices
-Anvillius Drop pods can be taken as fast attack choices
-Raptors can be taken as non-compulsory troops choices
-unmarked Chaos Space Marine and Chosen squads gain Infiltrate


Night Lords Warlord traits (see codex: CSM)
1-2 May force the first turn to use night fight
3-4 Hatred Incarnate
5-6 Lord of Terror

Sevatar's Chain Glaive (artefact)
-Master-crafted chain glaive, 25 points


Changes:
-cult troops are legal, but warlord can't be marked
-Kharybids can be taken, Anvilius is regular fast
-Raptors added as troops
-chosen and CSM's gain infiltrate
-warlord trait
-sevatar's glaive as an artefact

I like v2, I might give it a try if I ever finish my NL lol

Another way to twaek the nightlords would be with a special nightlords detachment. Like the ork horde detachment with 9 troop slots and 3 HQ slots, or the waagh ghazz detachment with more elites etc

Lords of night detachment
1-2 HQ
0-3 elite
2-6 troops
1-6 fast
0-3 heavy

and then add in some of those fear/infiltrate bonuses and penalties etc

what allowing them to ignore fearless on a roll of 6+?