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So 7th has upped the need for scoring and the strength of AV14. I love Wyverns but I'm not taking them here as this is about spamming AV14 and using it aggressively. So here's the list:

CAD

Pask: Punisher MMs, LC 425
Executioner: PCs

Tank Commander: Vanquisher LC 330
Vanquisher: LC

Vets: 2 Meltaguns, Taurox 130
Vets: 2 Meltaguns, Taurox 130
Vets: 2 Meltaguns, Taurox 130
Vets: 3 flamers Taurox 125

Exterminator: LC 140
Exterminator: LC 140
2 Punishers: HB 320

8 Russes, 36 Hull points and 4 units I can throw at objectives through terrain. All in one CAD (I must be getting nice in my old age). What do you think?

I have no real Psyker defence and I'm concerned by invisistars because they are a bit good and this list doesn't really have an answer to them other than hope they don't roll the power. Though I see invisistars being the Screamerstars of this edition (too unreliable to win a tournament but will ruin some good players days).

Wow...that's a lot of HPs. Seems to cover pretty much everything, you've overlapped your LRBT variants very well. My only point would be changing out your Exterm's LC to HBs but you have plenty of swarm-killing anyway.

I would certainly not want to go up against this.

Exterminators are my AA and light mech killers hence the LCs, they also go after MCs. Yes they can do a job on horde too but as stated I've got that pretty well covered with volume of shots.

 FlingitNow wrote:
So 7th has upped the need for scoring and the strength of AV14. I love Wyverns but I'm not taking them here as this is about spamming AV14 and using it aggressively. So here's the list:

CAD

Pask: Punisher MMs, LC 425
Executioner: PCs

Tank Commander: Vanquisher LC 330
Vanquisher: LC

Vets: 2 Meltaguns, Taurox 130
Vets: 2 Meltaguns, Taurox 130
Vets: 2 Meltaguns, Taurox 130
Vets: 3 flamers Taurox 125

Exterminator: LC 140
Exterminator: LC 140
2 Punishers: HB 320

8 Russes, 36 Hull points and 4 units I can throw at objectives through terrain. All in one CAD (I must be getting nice in my old age). What do you think?

I have no real Psyker defence and I'm concerned by invisistars because they are a bit good and this list doesn't really have an answer to them other than hope they don't roll the power. Though I see invisistars being the Screamerstars of this edition (too unreliable to win a tournament but will ruin some good players days).

Love it mate. 1 thing you have overcosted your tank commanders unit. It's the same as mine so is 320, not 330. So that's either relic plating for pask, TC and punisher if you wish or something else.

I'd probably just take another melta. Relic plating is good but it is blessings I'm worried about not Witchfires.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Though I think I broke the Ork codex here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/602799.page

That is a stout looking AM list. I really can't critique it too much. Well done.

Cheers.

 FlingitNow wrote:
I'd probably just take another melta. Relic plating is good but it is blessings I'm worried about not Witchfires.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Though I think I broke the Ork codex here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/602799.page

Its nasty, but breaking? I think this guard list of yours (or mine for that matter) could spank it back to the stone age.

My 1k Leman Russ wall would be more concerned if orks could hit a cows arse with a banjo with their shooting. And then its 6's to glance front armour. All of them put together will kill a Russ a turn? Maybe 2 if you roll well?

Get your 1k together, should be a fun match up.

Not convinced the Ork list struggles with Russes with that many bodies (and Russes) I'll get a lot of side shots. Plus if I get into combat the Russes will go down fast as all the Tankbustas have melta bombs and the boy squads have a power klaw and chainfist.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Not convinced the Ork list struggles with Russes with that many bodies (and Russes) I'll get a lot of side shots. Plus if I get into combat the Russes will go down fast as all the Tankbustas have melta bombs and the boy squads have a power klaw and chainfist.

Assuming all your tankbustas are in side arc and have taken no casualties, its still on average only 5 HP's.

Don't get me wrong its all kinds of nasty, IF you make combat.

how many would you run at 1k?

Y you no creed ?

2 rerollable traits on the Strategy table > anything else in all of 40K for 200 points.

Cause Creed does nothing for this list. An Ork can get 2 rolls on strategic traits for a lot less than 200 points. So I don't understand the logic in either statement.

I don't see how Creed can do nothing for any list.

Good news for the Ork option, is that from the new codex ?

So what does he bring here? Given he's at the cost of Pask in a Leman Russ list. He gives up STW much easier and gives pointless orders to units that don't really need/benefit from them. What do you expect him to do for this list other than massively weaken it?

morgoth wrote:
Y you no creed ?

2 rerollable traits on the Strategy table > anything else in all of 40K for 200 points.

Lol, man, thats very bad advice...

to FlingitNow: Dont listen to him, Creed would be a garbage in your list...he is quite bad even in infantry lists...

Creed is a must take in a gunline infantry army to maximize his order output. Not applicable in a mech army.

Lets look at those strategic traits:

1. Stealth ruins: could be useful if there are plenty of ruins on the table. But given that most people deal with AV14 with melta or 12" Haywire I'll probably not get anything benefit when I actually need it.

2. Choosing nightfight: given how irrelevant night fighting has become and how if anything it will benefit my opponent not me this is less than mediocre.

3. Infiltrate for all the stuff I plan to hide behind my non-infiltrating Russes... again useless to this list.

4. +1 seize, finally a useful result. If I roll this power and lose the roll off to go first. Situational but useful.

5. -1 reserve rolls great against Cronair not so much against much else. Again situationally useful.

6. Pinning tests. Please anything this would be useful against is likely to pass or flatout ignore this result.

So I'm paying 200 points to get 2 rolls at 2 situational benefits and a whole load of mediocre and at the cost of Pask. How about no thanks.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Lets look at those strategic traits:

1. Stealth ruins: could be useful if there are plenty of ruins on the table. But given that most people deal with AV14 with melta or 12" Haywire I'll probably not get anything benefit when I actually need it.

2. Choosing nightfight: given how irrelevant night fighting has become and how if anything it will benefit my opponent not me this is less than mediocre.

3. Infiltrate for all the stuff I plan to hide behind my non-infiltrating Russes... again useless to this list.

4. +1 seize, finally a useful result. If I roll this power and lose the roll off to go first. Situational but useful.

5. -1 reserve rolls great against Cronair not so much against much else. Again situationally useful.

6. Pinning tests. Please anything this would be useful against is likely to pass or flatout ignore this result.

So I'm paying 200 points to get 2 rolls at 2 situational benefits and a whole load of mediocre and at the cost of Pask. How about no thanks.

1. Yeah well . I like having 2+ in ruins. a lot.
2. Isn't night vision a good thing if you don't have it already ?
3. I don't know tbh. Needs playtesting.
4. Even if you win the roll off, you can choose to be second and then seize afaik.
5. and drop pods. and any flyers. or deepstrikers.
6. this one is just very bad.

For me the single thing that makes it worth it is Stealth(Ruins) + Move Through Cover for the entire army. There's 2+ ruins on any table, IMO this is very valuable.

The others ... some are good enough, and as you may not always get Conqueror of Cities, and will have to roll a second one, they're not half bad.

When compared to all the other Warlord Traits I've seen, these shine and can definitely be worth 200+ points.

Stealth ruins is useful to many armies but not this one. HI don't have camo netting and Russes can't GtG so that would be a 3+ from the ruins or more likely as pointed out nothing.

Why would I choose to go 2nd if I wanted to seize? If I also had coteaz in the list then it would make more sense. Coteaz, Vect/Imotek plus this and Coteaz would be hilarious, but again that's not for this list.

DPs are about the Alphastrike, so that isn't a huge benefit against them. Yeah sure it has uses but consider what I'm giving up (I.e. the best HQ in the game current and one that fits my list perfectly).

Creed would be woeful in this list.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Stealth ruins is useful to many armies but not this one. HI don't have camo netting and Russes can't GtG so that would be a 3+ from the ruins or more likely as pointed out nothing.

Why would I choose to go 2nd if I wanted to seize? If I also had coteaz in the list then it would make more sense. Coteaz, Vect/Imotek plus this and Coteaz would be hilarious, but again that's not for this list.

DPs are about the Alphastrike, so that isn't a huge benefit against them. Yeah sure it has uses but consider what I'm giving up (I.e. the best HQ in the game current and one that fits my list perfectly).

Creed would be woeful in this list.

Going second gives you deployment advantage

I had no idea the AM had even better characters though... all of mine (Eldar) are crap so I thought Creed was god.

Yes but if I'm going to seize choosing to go second to try to seize will be the wrong call 2 out of 3 games with normal dice (about 5 in 6 with my dice ).

Creed is good in a guard infantry list. Yarrick is probably better if you're doing blobs.

In a tank list Pask is ludicrous:

AV14 warlord that twin links his 5 plasma cannon wielding mate and fires at a separate target himself. Hitting on 3s rerolling 1s with 2 Multimeltas a lascannon and 20 S5 rending shots all with rerolls on armour pen!

I am not swapping that for Creed ever!

morgoth....just no

Or I could do this:

CAD 
Pask: Punisher MMs, LC 425 
Executioner: PCs 

Vets: Taurox 110
Vets: Taurox 110
Vets: Taurox 110
Vets: flamer Taurox 115

Steel Host
Tank Commander: Vanquisher LC 330 
Vanquisher: LC 
Exterminator: LC 140 
Exterminator: LC 140 
2 Punishers: HB 320 
Hydra: 70

I lose basically all the special weapons from the Vets to get a Hydra (not a good trade) but I get Preferred Enemy on the Tank Commander and all vehicles within 12" of him! Though I do lose ability to deal with a mirror matchup, so the previous list would beat this one but would this beat more? With the way I roll 1s PE is super powered for my armies.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Or I could do this:

CAD 
Pask: Punisher MMs, LC 425 
Executioner: PCs 

Vets: Taurox 110
Vets: Taurox 110
Vets: Taurox 110
Vets: flamer Taurox 115

Steel Host
Tank Commander: Vanquisher LC 330 
Vanquisher: LC 
Exterminator: LC 140 
Exterminator: LC 140 
2 Punishers: HB 320 
Hydra: 70

I lose basically all the special weapons from the Vets to get a Hydra (not a good trade) but I get Preferred Enemy on the Tank Commander and all vehicles within 12" of him! Though I do lose ability to deal with a mirror matchup, so the previous list would beat this one but would this beat more? With the way I roll 1s PE is super powered for my armies.

I like your first list better. I really don't like the lost threat of the Special Weapons.

On a side note, as rational and as informed you make all of your decisions, you still believe your dice have it in for you! Damned laws of probablility...

 FlingitNow wrote:


Creed is good in a guard infantry list. Yarrick is probably better if you're doing blobs.

I am playing infantry lists the whole time. Creed is not worth it. Too expensive. Too much of a target. Even regular CCS is priority target and this is much worse...

I like your first list better. I really don't like the lost threat of the Special Weapons. 

On a side note, as rational and as informed you make all of your decisions, you still believe your dice have it in for you! Damned laws of probablility...

Yeah I think I prefer the first one too. Just PE always attracts me. I don't think my dice have it in for me I just consistently roll worse than average.

Some people are lucky with dice and some aren't. Its the laws of probability, though wierdly as a kid playing I was lucky with dice (except against my brother don't get me started on him, never play a diced based game against him). It has turned around now though

It doesn't in general stop me winning but it can get frustrating at times.

How are infantry lists working out against things with cover saves and jinks?

im seriously considering creed for multiple units of heavy weapon squads or infantry blobs with HWS to deal with Tricky Xeno skimmer powers.

 Desubot wrote:
How are infantry lists working out against things with cover saves and jinks?

im seriously considering creed for multiple units of heavy weapon squads or infantry blobs with HWS to deal with Tricky Xeno skimmer powers.

With my luck - badly

 FlingitNow wrote:
Or I could do this:

CAD 
Pask: Punisher MMs, LC 425 
Executioner: PCs 

Vets: Taurox 110
Vets: Taurox 110
Vets: Taurox 110
Vets: flamer Taurox 115

Steel Host
Tank Commander: Vanquisher LC 330 
Vanquisher: LC 
Exterminator: LC 140 
Exterminator: LC 140 
2 Punishers: HB 320 
Hydra: 70

I lose basically all the special weapons from the Vets to get a Hydra (not a good trade) but I get Preferred Enemy on the Tank Commander and all vehicles within 12" of him! Though I do lose ability to deal with a mirror matchup, so the previous list would beat this one but would this beat more? With the way I roll 1s PE is super powered for my armies.

points are wrong on the Tank Commander again, its 320. thats 2 extra flamers for vets.

kinda irrelevant though because IMHO that second list is inferior to your first list in every way.

Stick with the russ wall.