Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/25 16:12:52
Subject: Detroit groups reach out to UN as water customers are tapped out
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Nevelon wrote:Which dystopian post apocalypse future does Detroit want? Classically it’s Robocop, but isn’t Water and Power a Tank Girl thing?
Well, let's hope they aren't going for a Judge Dredd type of future.
"you failed to pay your water bill, for violating the law.. you shall be punished. The punishment is, Death"
 
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/25 16:15:46
Subject: Re:Detroit groups reach out to UN as water customers are tapped out
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
What's the price of a bottle of water going these day's
|
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/25 16:16:21
Subject: Detroit groups reach out to UN as water customers are tapped out
|
 |
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
|
A civilised modern society ought not to have poor people drinking from puddles or dying of thirst because they can't pay their water bill. The actual amount of unpaid bills is fairly small compared to the overall size of the industry anyway, so it should be possible to redistribute the non-payer cost to the majority of paying customers.
However in any situation where it is possible to free ride, there will be some free riders, so care should be taken to prevent fraudulent use of what is in effect a charitable hand-out.
The difficulty is how to sort the free riders from the genuine hardship cases.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/25 16:19:32
Subject: Re:Detroit groups reach out to UN as water customers are tapped out
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Free Filter straws?
|
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/25 16:25:11
Subject: Detroit groups reach out to UN as water customers are tapped out
|
 |
Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
|
Kilkrazy wrote:A civilised modern society ought not to have poor people drinking from puddles or dying of thirst because they can't pay their water bill. The actual amount of unpaid bills is fairly small compared to the overall size of the industry anyway, so it should be possible to redistribute the non-payer cost to the majority of paying customers.
However in any situation where it is possible to free ride, there will be some free riders, so care should be taken to prevent fraudulent use of what is in effect a charitable hand-out.
The difficulty is how to sort the free riders from the genuine hardship cases.
Sorry, but if I pay my bills on time I should not be penalized because someone else cannot/will not Automatically Appended Next Post:
Use tampons
http://www.artofmanliness.com/2012/06/05/survival-tampon/
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/25 16:26:33
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/25 17:12:35
Subject: Detroit groups reach out to UN as water customers are tapped out
|
 |
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos
|
Kilkrazy wrote:A civilised modern society ought not to have poor people drinking from puddles or dying of thirst because they can't pay their water bill. The actual amount of unpaid bills is fairly small compared to the overall size of the industry anyway, so it should be possible to redistribute the non-payer cost to the majority of paying customers.
However in any situation where it is possible to free ride, there will be some free riders, so care should be taken to prevent fraudulent use of what is in effect a charitable hand-out.
The difficulty is how to sort the free riders from the genuine hardship cases.
The problem here is that roughly half of accoutns are delinquent, meaning there aren't a lot of paying customers for free riders to mooch off of. The other problem seems to be that many people actually do pay once the shut off happens.
The problem isn't that there aren't ways ot making sure poor people have water. There are plenty of programs. The problem is that the Water Works was doing a terrible job of collecting fees, and the residents simply stopped paying.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/25 18:36:19
Subject: Detroit groups reach out to UN as water customers are tapped out
|
 |
Dakka Veteran
|
Polonius wrote:The problem isn't that there aren't ways ot making sure poor people have water. There are plenty of programs. The problem is that the Water Works was doing a terrible job of collecting fees, and the residents simply stopped paying.
Well.. that's what happens when you run out of other people's money. Somewhere around 35-40% of all taxes collected by Detroit is used to service interest on their municipal debt. Now they can't afford to provide a very basic service to the poor. Really shouldn't surprise anyone who can do simple math.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/25 18:39:20
Subject: Re:Detroit groups reach out to UN as water customers are tapped out
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Didn't like three counties around Detroit elected to build their own water purification plant being it would be cheaper then renewing contracts with Detroit for water?
|
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/25 18:43:53
Subject: Detroit groups reach out to UN as water customers are tapped out
|
 |
[MOD]
Solahma
|
Some have bought water service infrastructure in firesales held by emergency managers whose only mandate is to avoid default. It's kind of like scavengers breaking into abandoned buildings to pull out the copper ... except the scavengers are wealthy suburban governments and the emergency managers are inviting them in.
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/06/25 18:44:33
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/25 18:44:16
Subject: Detroit groups reach out to UN as water customers are tapped out
|
 |
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos
|
dereksatkinson wrote:
Polonius wrote:The problem isn't that there aren't ways ot making sure poor people have water. There are plenty of programs. The problem is that the Water Works was doing a terrible job of collecting fees, and the residents simply stopped paying.
Well.. that's what happens when you run out of other people's money. Somewhere around 35-40% of all taxes collected by Detroit is used to service interest on their municipal debt. Now they can't afford to provide a very basic service to the poor. Really shouldn't surprise anyone who can do simple math.
Amazingly, this isn't about taxes. LIke most public utilities, it does not take funds from the general treasury.
http://dwsd.org/pages_n/about_dwsd.html
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/25 18:52:01
Subject: Detroit groups reach out to UN as water customers are tapped out
|
 |
Martial Arts Fiday
|
Kilkrazy wrote:A civilised modern society ought not to have poor people drinking from puddles or dying of thirst because they can't pay their water bill.
There is no way this is happening. At all.
|
"Holy Sh*&, you've opened my eyes and changed my mind about this topic, thanks Dakka OT!"
-Nobody Ever
Proverbs 18:2
"CHEESE!" is the battlecry of the ill-prepared.
warboss wrote:
GW didn't mean to hit your wallet and I know they love you, baby. I'm sure they won't do it again so it's ok to purchase and make up. 
Albatross wrote:I think SlaveToDorkness just became my new hero.
EmilCrane wrote:Finecast is the new Matt Ward.
Don't mess with the Blade and Bolter! |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/25 18:53:41
Subject: Detroit groups reach out to UN as water customers are tapped out
|
 |
Dakka Veteran
|
Polonius wrote:dereksatkinson wrote:
Polonius wrote:The problem isn't that there aren't ways ot making sure poor people have water. There are plenty of programs. The problem is that the Water Works was doing a terrible job of collecting fees, and the residents simply stopped paying.
Well.. that's what happens when you run out of other people's money. Somewhere around 35-40% of all taxes collected by Detroit is used to service interest on their municipal debt. Now they can't afford to provide a very basic service to the poor. Really shouldn't surprise anyone who can do simple math.
Amazingly, this isn't about taxes. LIke most public utilities, it does not take funds from the general treasury.
http://dwsd.org/pages_n/about_dwsd.html
And how exactly do all these "plenty of programs" (your words, not mine) that provide water for the poor get their funding?
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/25 18:54:46
Subject: Detroit groups reach out to UN as water customers are tapped out
|
 |
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos
|
Yeah, detroit is poor, but not "half the people can't afford water" poor.
Now, it's in no way shocking that half the people are choosing not to pay the water bill, but that's a different story. Automatically Appended Next Post: dereksatkinson wrote: Polonius wrote:dereksatkinson wrote:
Polonius wrote:The problem isn't that there aren't ways ot making sure poor people have water. There are plenty of programs. The problem is that the Water Works was doing a terrible job of collecting fees, and the residents simply stopped paying.
Well.. that's what happens when you run out of other people's money. Somewhere around 35-40% of all taxes collected by Detroit is used to service interest on their municipal debt. Now they can't afford to provide a very basic service to the poor. Really shouldn't surprise anyone who can do simple math.
Amazingly, this isn't about taxes. LIke most public utilities, it does not take funds from the general treasury.
http://dwsd.org/pages_n/about_dwsd.html
And how exactly do all these "plenty of programs" (your words, not mine) that provide water for the poor get their funding?
What does the funding of those programs have to do with the financial solvency of the Water Department?
And, btw, those programs are almost all federally funded, which means they have plenty of other people's money.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/25 18:57:05
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/25 19:02:36
Subject: Detroit groups reach out to UN as water customers are tapped out
|
 |
[MOD]
Solahma
|
Polonius wrote:Yeah, detroit is poor, but not "half the people can't afford water" poor.
Agreed. That idea of Detroit is mythological.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/25 19:09:07
Subject: Detroit groups reach out to UN as water customers are tapped out
|
 |
Dakka Veteran
|
Polonius wrote:What does the funding of those programs have to do with the financial solvency of the Water Department?
And, btw, those programs are almost all federally funded, which means they have plenty of other people's money.
They probably wouldn't have to ask for assistance from the UN or Feds if they weren't spending ~40% of their taxes to service debt. That money should be used on helping the people that actually live there but it's not.
And if the feds were giving away water, then why should anyone in Detroit pay for it?
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/25 19:16:31
Subject: Detroit groups reach out to UN as water customers are tapped out
|
 |
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos
|
dereksatkinson wrote: Polonius wrote:What does the funding of those programs have to do with the financial solvency of the Water Department?
And, btw, those programs are almost all federally funded, which means they have plenty of other people's money.
They probably wouldn't have to ask for assistance from the UN or Feds if they weren't spending ~40% of their taxes to service debt. That money should be used on helping the people that actually live there but it's not.
Who is "they" here?
And if the feds were giving away water, then why should anyone in Detroit pay for it?
Oh, of course. Yes, taxes are bad, the poor should all get jobs, and Obama is leading us into a socialist dystoptian.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/25 19:21:47
Subject: Re:Detroit groups reach out to UN as water customers are tapped out
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Wait. Obama did say he would the US to be more like France though? (I agree with him on that subject; paid maternity leave)
Edit
UN
DETROIT – U.N. experts say water shutoffs at Detroit homes due to overdue bills violate international human rights.
Right to water and sanitation expert Catarina de Albuquerque says Wednesday that disconnections due to non-payment are "only permissible if it can be shown that the resident is able to pay but is not paying."
The statement follows a letter sent this week to the U.N. Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights by welfare rights groups who complain that mass shutoffs by Detroit's water department are leaving poor people at risk.
Water department spokeswoman Curtrise Garner says service to 4,500 customers was cut last month, but more than half then paid up. Garner says about $90 million is owed by 90,000 active customers who are behind at least two months.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/25 19:43:25
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
|
|
 |
 |
|