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Made in us
Fate-Controlling Farseer





Fort Campbell

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101787838

The U.S. economy contracted at a much steeper pace than previously estimated in the first quarter, but there are indications that growth has since rebounded strongly.

The Commerce Department said on Wednesday gross domestic product fell at a 2.9 percent annual rate, the economy's worst performance in five years, instead of the 1.0 percent pace it had reported last month.

While the economy's woes have been largely blamed on an unusually cold winter, the magnitude of the revisions suggest other factors at play beyond the weather. Growth has now been revised down by a total of 3.0 percentage points since the government's first estimate was published in April, which had the economy expanding at a 0.1 percent rate.

The difference between the second and third estimates was the largest on records going back to 1976, the Commerce Department said. Economists had expected growth to be revised to show it contracting at a 1.7 percent rate. Sharp revisions to GDP numbers are not unusual as the government does not have complete data when it makes its initial and preliminary estimates.

The latest revisions reflect a weaker pace of healthcare spending than previously assumed, which caused a downgrading of the consumer spending estimate. Trade was also a bigger drag on the economy than previously thought. The economy grew at a 2.6 percent pace in the final three months of 2013. With the first quarter in the rear view and the April-June period looking stronger, investors are likely to ignore the report.

Data such as employment, manufacturing and services sectors point to a sharp acceleration in growth early in the second quarter. However, the pace of expansion could fall short of expectations, which range as high as a 3.6 percent rate. Economists estimate severe weather could have slashed as much as 1.5 percentage points from GDP growth in the first quarter. The government, however, gave no details on the impact of the weather.

Consumer spending, which accounts for more than two-thirds of U.S. economic activity, increased at a 1.0 percent rate. It was previously reported to have advanced at a 3.1 percent pace. Exports declined at a 8.9 percent rate, instead of 6.0 percent pace, resulting in a trade deficit that sliced off 1.53 percentage points from GDP growth. Weak export growth has been tied to frigid temperatures during the winter.

Businesses accumulated $45.9 billion worth of inventories, a bit less than the $49.0 billion estimated last month. Inventories subtracted 1.70 percentage points from first-quarter growth, but should be a boost to second-quarter growth.

A measure of domestic demand that strips out exports and inventories expanded at a 0.3 percent rate, rather than a 1.6 percent rate.


More at link.

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Dakka Veteran




Worst number since 2009.. No one could have seen this coming..

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-25/gdp-disaster-final-q1-gdp-crashes-29-worst-2009-far-below-worst-expectations

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/25 14:23:22


 
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

Nearly every analysis I've seen simply pointed to how cold the winter was. It just shut down whole cities for days at a time.

The interesting nugget has always been that health care spending did not increase as much as analysts predicted. I would have thought you'd see a rush after Obamacare plans kicked in in January.
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

US GDP estimates are often optimistic and have to be revised downwards in the cold light of real data.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
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MN (Currently in WY)

It is debatable if GDP even measures anything useful anymore.


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Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Easy E wrote:
It is debatable if GDP even measures anything useful anymore.


It's a useful measure of how active the economy is... but, it's not necessarily a great measure of how healthy it is.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/25 14:54:58


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 whembly wrote:
 Easy E wrote:
It is debatable if GDP even measures anything useful anymore.


It's a useful measure of how active the economy is... but, it's not necessarily a great measure of how healthy it is.


If you are in debt, you have to be growing in order to be healthy. Just the way the math works.
   
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Leerstetten, Germany

Everything that I have read also points to the cold (not just the cold, but snow and ice that shut down portions of the US for weeks at a time).

Construction stopped, and construction is a big driver of our economy. Raw materials, durable goods (appliances and such), wages. Stop construction in major areas of the country for a couple weeks during a quarter and you will lose quite a bit of the driving force it provides. A couple weeks isn't that much at first glance, but loosing 2-3 weeks of production our of 14 weeks makes a pretty big impact.

Everybody stuck at home.

Vacations cancelled: transportation takes a hit, lodging takes a hit, restaurants take a hit.

People not even leaving their homes: gas stations take a hit, retail takes a hit, restaurants take a hit, entertainment takes a hit.

Can't go to work: Many people might not even get paid for those days if the office shuts down altogether or they don't have enough sick days to cover for that.

Schools are out: Again, people can't go to work with the kids at home.

Shut down the country for a couple of weeks, and it's not surprising to see a big impact like this.
   
Made in us
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Runnin up on ya.

D, I'm sure that it has everything to do with Croatian farm subsidies and nothing at all to do with something so mundane as horrible weather completely shutting down the East coast for a month or so.

Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do 
   
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 agnosto wrote:
D, I'm sure that it has everything to do with Croatian farm subsidies and nothing at all to do with something so mundane as horrible weather completely shutting down the East coast for a month or so.


From the original CNBC article...

While the economy's woes have been largely blamed on an unusually cold winter, the magnitude of the revisions suggest other factors at play beyond the weather.


Considering all the spring/summer numbers are coming in relatively weak, it's clearly not "the weather" that is hitting the consumer. Most likely the initial numbers we will see for Q2 will come in a little higher than expected and will be revised lower into negative territory this September when final numbers are released. At which point we will be talking about the "surprise" recession.
   
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Leerstetten, Germany

http://money.cnn.com/2014/06/25/news/economy/gdp-negative/index.html?hpt=hp_t4

Here are three key reasons why economists aren't too worried about another crisis.

1) They blame the weather: Consumer spending is the single largest driver of the U.S. economy, but blizzards kept customers away from restaurants, shopping malls, car lots and open houses more than usual this winter.

The icy winter also slowed shipments both domestically and abroad, and as a result, exports to foreign countries declined.

Since those slowdowns were weather-related, economists are convinced they're only temporary.

"The larger contraction in GDP in the first quarter is not a sign that the U.S. is suffering from a fundamental slowdown -- it was still largely due to the extreme weather," said Paul Dales, senior U.S. economist with Capital Economics.

But there's one caveat here: There was a sharp decline in health care spending at the beginning of the year, which economists aren't able to fully explain yet. Enrollment in health insurance is up due to the Affordable Care Act, but it looks like Americans spent more on health care in the fourth quarter, and then pulled back on that spending at the beginning of 2014.

There's a big question here: If more people have health insurance, why did spending on health care suddenly fall? There are no answers yet, and it may turn out to be a temporary blip, but it's something economists and policymakers will be watching.

2) It's not a final number: Some economists take this GDP number with a grain of salt because it will be revised again next month when the Bureau of Economic Analysis makes historical revisions, going back to 1999.

The weak number also doesn't fit with the story told by other key economic indicators, like job growth.

3) The economy has improved since March: Hiring slowed in December, but it has since picked up again. In the last five months, the economy added 1.1 million jobs. Hiring at that level is consistent with an economy that is growing modestly around 2% to 3% a year -- not an economy that is contracting.

"Disappointing data showing U.S. GDP suffered a steeper than previously thought downturn at the start of the year has been rapidly overtaken by more up-to-date survey data, which show the economy surging in June," said Chris Williamson, chief economist for Markit.

The same old story remains: This recovery is underway, but it's choppy and still very slow.
   
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So it's the weather.. we will miraculously have a 6 sigma move in GDP revisions.. and the economy is going to get better because we have more waiters as of March..

Brilliant.

btw.. this was the 17 worst GDP print in US history.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/25 18:29:04


 
   
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Toledo, OH

dereksatkinson wrote:
So it's the weather.. we will miraculously have a 6 sigma move in GDP revisions.. and the economy is going to get better because we have more waiters as of March..


It was also a drop in health care spending, which is the opposite of what most people expected. So unless we're all going to keep putting off seeing the doctor, that probably won't last.
   
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 Polonius wrote:
dereksatkinson wrote:
So it's the weather.. we will miraculously have a 6 sigma move in GDP revisions.. and the economy is going to get better because we have more waiters as of March..


It was also a drop in health care spending, which is the opposite of what most people expected. So unless we're all going to keep putting off seeing the doctor, that probably won't last.

That's kinda misleading...

It isn't that visits to Doctor's office / Hospital is down... in fact, it's waaay up (YTD). It's partly because of the reduced reimbursements rates for services rendered across the board.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/25 18:44:17


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Toledo, OH

 whembly wrote:
 Polonius wrote:
dereksatkinson wrote:
So it's the weather.. we will miraculously have a 6 sigma move in GDP revisions.. and the economy is going to get better because we have more waiters as of March..


It was also a drop in health care spending, which is the opposite of what most people expected. So unless we're all going to keep putting off seeing the doctor, that probably won't last.

That's kinda misleading...

It isn't that visits to Doctor's office / Hospital is down... in fact, it's waaay up (YTD). It's partly because of the reduced reimbursements rates for services rendered across the board.


citation?
   
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 Polonius wrote:
dereksatkinson wrote:
So it's the weather.. we will miraculously have a 6 sigma move in GDP revisions.. and the economy is going to get better because we have more waiters as of March..


It was also a drop in health care spending, which is the opposite of what most people expected. So unless we're all going to keep putting off seeing the doctor, that probably won't last.


Expectations are irrelevant when you are talking expansion/contraction.

The excuses being trotted around are completely nonsensical if you ask me. I'll stick with my previous predictions.

Also...

Healthcare spending was still up 1% vs the 3.1% "consensus" estimate. So I don't think anyone was "putting off seeing the doctor".

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/06/25 18:59:03


 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Polonius wrote:
 whembly wrote:
 Polonius wrote:
dereksatkinson wrote:
So it's the weather.. we will miraculously have a 6 sigma move in GDP revisions.. and the economy is going to get better because we have more waiters as of March..


It was also a drop in health care spending, which is the opposite of what most people expected. So unless we're all going to keep putting off seeing the doctor, that probably won't last.

That's kinda misleading...

It isn't that visits to Doctor's office / Hospital is down... in fact, it's waaay up (YTD). It's partly because of the reduced reimbursements rates for services rendered across the board.


citation?

I'd have to dig for that...

But, this is the first year when the ACA exchange kicks in... it's also the first year, in effect, that insurances readjusted their reimbursement rates in the private industries.

The Medicare/Medicaid rates has been on a downward trend for some time.

I working in the healthcare industry...and at least in the Midwest, hospital visits are waaaay up. Huge spikes in the ED visits as well.

EDIT: as a corollary to this, elective procedures (ie, hip & knee transplants) and pregnancies are really down.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/25 19:00:14


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Don't worry everyone.. Next GDP report will blame gas prices and the "mild summer" as the primary cause for the downward revisions. You know.. fewer swim suits sold.

We just can't catch a break.
   
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Leerstetten, Germany

If the GDP is the only indicator of economic health you might be right in you doomsday predictions.

But like the post you seem to ignore the reason why people are not freaking out (well, other than you) is that:

A) we do have a pretty good explanation of why it happened. And

B) The other indicators of economic health did not decline with the GDP, in fact they swung in the opposite direction and indicate a growing economy. Slowly growing, but still growing.
   
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Toledo, OH

 d-usa wrote:
The other indicators of economic health did not decline with the GDP, in fact they swung in the opposite direction and indicate a growing economy. Slowly growing, but still growing.


Which, by the way, is the real concern.

Of course, with flat wages for the umpteenth year, and stifled entrepeneurism, it's not shocking that economic growth is very slow.
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
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Somewhere in south-central England.

The blunt truth is that outside the elite 1 (or 2 or 5) %, the rest of the people are having a gakky time and it is coming round to bite "the economy" on its arse because they actually generate most of the demand and they are generating less of it.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

*meh*

No need to worship the GDP as the end-all-be all statistics.

As to blaming the weather?
Winter 1985 was colder than winter 2014; #GDP expanded at 4% rate in Q1 1985- plunged 2.9% in Q1 2014. #GDP #Vortex pic.twitter.com/7gL2kPi8KS

— Stephen Moore (@StephenMoore) June 25, 2014

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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Runnin up on ya.

 d-usa wrote:
If the GDP is the only indicator of economic health you might be right in you doomsday predictions.

But like the post you seem to ignore the reason why people are not freaking out (well, other than you) is that:

A) we do have a pretty good explanation of why it happened. And

B) The other indicators of economic health did not decline with the GDP, in fact they swung in the opposite direction and indicate a growing economy. Slowly growing, but still growing.


QFT but let's not let facts get in the way of a good 'ol "sky is falling" party.

Health care costs (thanks Obama...kidding):
http://ww2.cfo.com/health-benefits/2014/05/u-s-health-cost-hikes-slow-year/

Consumer confidence -6 year high:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/06/24/consumer-confidence-june/11286771/

Consumer spending -almost 5 year high:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-05-01/consumer-spending-in-u-s-jumps-by-most-in-almost-five-years.html

Market health:
https://exchanges.nyx.com/charles-brown/market-flash-market-230

Yeah, it's all a figment and 1 quarter of bad GDP means the end of the world. Let's all gnash our teeth. I'd pull my hair, if I had any.

Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do 
   
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Leerstetten, Germany

And keep in mind that when people are saying "it was cold" it's not a case of "it's cold, I don't wanna go to the mall and buy a fancy purse today".

It's "we had major ice and snow storms that shut down almost all commerce, commercial traffic, construction, and even air freight and shipping routes and the below average temperatures kept everything from thawing out for quite a while before things returned to normal".
   
Made in us
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So slow on preparing the economic collapse of the US? I've a lot of ammo in the process of purchasing

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 d-usa wrote:
http://money.cnn.com/2014/06/25/news/economy/gdp-negative/index.html?hpt=hp_t4

Here are three key reasons why economists aren't too worried about another crisis.
Since those slowdowns were weather-related, economists are convinced they're only temporary.


Yeah, sure would be a shame if weather were to get more extreme, good thing that's not even remotely possible, eh?

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
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dereksatkinson wrote:


Considering all the spring/summer numbers are coming in relatively weak, it's clearly not "the weather" that is hitting the consumer. Most likely the initial numbers we will see for Q2 will come in a little higher than expected and will be revised lower into negative territory this September when final numbers are released. At which point we will be talking about the "surprise" recession.



My gut feeling on that would be that Q2 would be a little weaker since many people, if they had savings at all, ate into them during the harsh winter in order to survive. So they have to work more/save more in order to bring that money back to "pre winter" levels.
   
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 Kilkrazy wrote:
The blunt truth is that outside the elite 1 (or 2 or 5) %, the rest of the people are having a gakky time and it is coming round to bite "the economy" on its arse because they actually generate most of the demand and they are generating less of it.


Exactly. And all the data backs that claim.







Context matters

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/26 12:49:47


 
   
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South Wales

dereksatkinson wrote:

Context matters


Indeed! Much like comparing Nixon to Obama.

Hilarious.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/26 13:06:29


Prestor Jon wrote:
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Fort Campbell

 MrDwhitey wrote:
dereksatkinson wrote:

Context matters


Indeed! Much like comparing Nixon to Obama.

Hilarious.


Indeed. Nixon was noted for keeping EVERYTHING on record. Obama on the other hand seems to be noted for losing every record.

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