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It seems when looking at the rules that in many cases, models shooting from a transport are reduced to snap shots.

As Jinking reduces the Transport itself to Snap Shots, it would make sense that it affects transported units as well, but the rules as written do not seem to state that.

Do you think it will / should be FAQ'd ?

No. There is nothing indicating that it would affect the occupants ability to shoot.

morgoth wrote:
It seems when looking at the rules that in many cases, models shooting from a transport are reduced to snap shots.

The only way to make the passengers to fire Snap Shots is with vehicle movement/penetrating hits/wrecking. Junk isn't linked to movement, and neither rule of Ld tests after a penetrating shot/going to ground are linked to Jink at all. There's absolutely no need to FAQ stances regarding Jink and the people inside.

I thought it was on a leadership test the same as crew shaken or stunned?

I believe the Jink change in 7 intended to make Skimmers choose whether they dakka or survive.

It looks like an oversight that dakka from fire points or open-topped transports would not be nerfed along with dakka from the transport itself.

That's why I ask if others agree with that interpretation and if it is then reasonable to expect a FAQ nerfing fire from fire points or open-topped transports having jinked.

Shingen wrote:
I thought it was on a leadership test the same as crew shaken or stunned?

No, Jink has no effect on passengers, as already stated.

morgoth wrote:
I believe the Jink change in 7 intended to make Skimmers choose whether they dakka or survive.

It looks like an oversight that dakka from fire points or open-topped transports would not be nerfed along with dakka from the transport itself.

That's why I ask if others agree with that interpretation and if it is then reasonable to expect a FAQ nerfing fire from fire points or open-topped transports having jinked.

Probably not. They changed shaken results to be a leadership test. This edition seemed to be about making mechanized armies stronger. I believe there's more implications that this change was intentional than not.

Nothing by the rules making a snap shot for passengers on a jinking vehicle.

Its just one of the side effects of the change to the jink rule.

In 6th you got your jink from moving and got +1 for flat outting. If you flat outted, you couldnt shoot neither could your passengers.

Now jinking effects the shooting of the vehicle but not the passengers since your not flat outting.

There are two different questions here

Does Jink effect the passengers shoting?

Did GW intend for Jink to effect passengers, and just screw up the rules writing?


The first one is easy to answer, as it is No.

The second is impossible to answer, and trying to predict what GW may or may not have done will lead to madness. I agree it is possible that was their intention, and perhaps a FAQ will make that happen. But there is nothing in the rules to indicate that was their intention, and I think it would be a mistake to try and second guess them on the issue.

I'm just really curious as to whether I'm the only one expecting such a change

This isn't a YMDC thread as the rules are 100% clear.

Morgoth give it up... How many threads about jink do we need? We get it, your not happy.

I'm happy, I'm just curious.

I don't know where you can put a discussion about RAW / RAI other than here so I put it here.

The thread belongs in here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/forums/show/16.page

YMDC is for unclear rules or questions about rules. This isn't a question, the rules are perfectly clear. You suggest a change to the Jink rules and those belong into the Proposed Rules forum.

Not quite.

My reading of the BRB indicates that RAI meant to turn Jink into a "Survive or Shoot" choice.

As some rules appear to be unaffected by that general intention, I'm wondering if anyone else perceived the same Intention (RAI) and if anyone else remembers or expects that kind of RAI becoming RAW through a FAQ.

I'm not proposing anything, I'm discussing an analysis of the BRB, RAI and RAW, which as far as I can tell is a type of discussion usually found in this forum.

The thing with RAI is that it should only really be used when the RAW is unclear or breaks the game. It's the kind of thing where you read a rule and it doesn't work within the framework of the rest of the rules, so you try to figure out what the designers were trying to say when they wrote the rule.

One prime example is back in 5th edition, where Rapid Fire weapons allowed a model with a Rapid Fire weapon to fire two shots if the target was found to be within 12" - but not requiring you to actually be shooting with that weapon. By RAW, you could fire a Heavy weapon twice at 12", as long as the model carried a Rapid Fire weapon as well. The consensus was that the designers didn't intend this, and so I doubt very many people tried to pull this off!

In the Jinking scenario, the RAW is incredibly clear, and it's not unreasonable to imagine the passengers not being as focused on diverting energy to engines, whereas the crew certainly would be. There is no ambiguity, and there is no indication that the designers intended the passengers to be similarly restricted.

You're welcome to play differently with your group, but just be aware that it would be nothing more than a house rule - which is why you were being directed to the Proposed Rules forum.

I don't think anyone should consider playing anything but RAW on this topic.

The discussion is whether this disparity between transport weapons and transported weapons was intentional or not, and whether anyone should expect GW to FAQ it in the future.

Apparently you seem to think that the justification behind the Jink change affecting the Transport's weapons is not applicable to the transported's weapons. That's interesting.

It is impossible to know what the authors intended to do - if anything.

RAW is perfectly clear, so we got that out of the equation.

Talking abut RAI right now is purely guessing and has as much substance as guessing whether it will rain tomorrow.