Wave Serpent - Serpent Shield question

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**Amanax**

So, with the release of 7th edition, a few interesting things have come up in my game group that we can't seem to figure out / find any assistance on.

The big one is this: With the way weapons fire now (Declare shooting with Weapon A, roll hits, pens/wounds, then save. Declare Weapon B and rinse repeat) we had a player in a game against orks who fired his scatter laser at an Ork trukk, blew it up with the scatter laser, and then said that he still received the bonus of his serpent shield.

Is this correct? Are you able to hold off on weapons such as the serpents shield and any other weapons that have a penalty to firing them until after all other weapons have fired and possibly not need to take the risk? Or, is it that we still need to designate if we intend to discharge these penalty weapons in advance, as we are trying to simulate that these weapons fire at the same time as the rest of that units ordinance.

1) Thanks for reading the post and any helpful information you can provide is much appreciated
2) I apologize if this came across as illegible, I have been awake for far too many hours, and it is legible to me, so I'm hoping we're good, but felt it safer to apologize just in case.

**rigeld2**

The Serpent designates the target, in this case the Trukk.
The Serpent fires the Scatter Laser. Resolved it as exploding.
The Serpent can't fire at another target so while his weapons are all Twin-Linked they don't do anything.

**Dracos**

I think the question is about the protective benefit from the shield.

If you declare the scatter lasers and serpent shield firing, but then the target is gone before you get to rolling the serpent shield, does it count as having fired (edit: with respect to getting the protective bonus)?

**grendel083**

What point do you declare that you're firing it?

If you've declared it, then yes it's being fired.

**rigeld2**

Dracos wrote:
I think the question is about the protective benefit from the shield.

If you declare the scatter lasers and serpent shield firing, but then the target is gone before you get to rolling the serpent shield, does it count as having fired (edit: with respect to getting the protective bonus)?

You don't declare the serpent shield is firing until you fire it.
If the target dies to the Scatter Laser you didn't get a chance to fire the shield.

**Dracos**

Not having the source material on hand, my memory says a unit declares all ite shooting at once, but resolves individually. Ie my memory erroneous?

**nosferatu1001**

Yes. You declare a unit is shooting , but not what models are shooting and with what they are shooting, if anything

**Dracos**

Ah thanks

**easysauce**

you reseolve HITS first,

so he would have had to hit with the cannon and sheild,

then WOUNDS/PENS are resolved individualy for each weapon

so yes, the sheild has already fired

**grendel083**

Except the scatter laser rules causes issue with this, as they are completely resolved first.

**rigeld2**

easysauce wrote:
you reseolve HITS first,

so he would have had to hit with the cannon and sheild,

then WOUNDS/PENS are resolved individualy for each weapon

so yes, the sheild has already fired

Not true. Please reread the shooting rules in 7th edition.

**easysauce**

no, you only have to HIT with scatter lasers, not pen or wound.

so hed roll to hit with SL, posibly gaining TL,
then roll to HIT with all other weapons he wants to fire,

then reseolve those hits in the order of his choosing,

by the time the trukk blows up, everything should have rolled to HIT, even if it hasnt all rolled to wound/pen.

**rigeld2**

easysauce wrote:
no, you only have to HIT with scatter lasers, not pen or wound.

so hed roll to hit with SL, posibly gaining TL,
then roll to HIT with all other weapons he wants to fire,

then reseolve those hits in the order of his choosing,

by the time the trukk blows up, everything should have rolled to HIT, even if it hasnt all rolled to wound/pen.

And yet the shooting rules require you to resolve a weapon at a time, from start to finish, before moving on to the next one.

**Cheex**

Ah, I think easysauce might be referring to the wording of Laser Lock, which states that you just roll To Hit with the Scatter Laser first, and that all other shooting is simultaneous.

Looks like this wording hasn't yet been updated for 7th.

**Amanax**

Cheexsta wrote:
Ah, I think easysauce might be referring to the wording of Laser Lock, which states that you just roll To Hit with the Scatter Laser first, and that all other shooting is simultaneous.

Looks like this wording hasn't yet been updated for 7th.

This here seems to be the main issue we ran into. If I recall, as I don't have the eldar codex in front of me, the Laser lock rule says that if you are firing any weapon with the laser lock rule and any other weapons you roll the scatter laser to hit before the weapon. This was taken two ways: 1) that it just needs to be shot first and 2) that a second weapon must be announced as firing to gain benefit from the Laser lock rule (in case the scatter laser did not finish the job).

Also, at easysauce, on page 30 of the main rules under the panel for "The shooting sequence" it states:

1. Nominate Unit to Shoot. Choose one of your units that is able to shoot but has yet to do so this turn
2. Choose a Target. The unit can shoot at an enemy unit that it can see.
3. Select a Weapon. Select a weapon the firing unit is equipped with. All models equipped with a weapon with the same name can now shoot that weapon at the target. Every model that wishes to shoot must be within range of at least one visible model in the target unit. Models that cannot see the target, opr are not in range, cannot shoot.
4. Roll to hit. Roll a D6 for each shot fired. A model's ballistic skill determines what it must roll in order to hit the target.
5. Roll to wound. For each shot that hit, roll again to see if it wounds the target. The result needed is determined by comparing the strength of the firing weapon with the majority toughness of the target unit.
6. Allocate Wounds and Remove Casualties. Any Wounds caused by the firing unit must now be allocated, one at a time, to the closest model in the target unit. A model with a Wound allocated to it can take a saving throw (if it has one) to avoid being wounded. If a model is reduced to 0 wounds it is removed as a casualty. Wound are then allocated to the next closet model. Continue to allocate Wounds and take saving throws until all wounds have been resolved.
7. Select Another Weapon: After resolving all shots from the currently selected weapon, if the firing unit is equipped with differently named weapons that have yet to fire, select another weapon and repeats steps 3 through 6.

So no, according to that section in the rules, you n o longer resolve all hits, all wounds/pens, then all saves. This is the reason this came up. It also seemingly nerfs Necron Quantum Shielding.

**Amanax**

Is there no other speculation on this?

**some bloke**

here's how it happens:

1: Declare a target.
2: Declare your first weapon and resolve the shots fully.
3: if there's still something left, pick another gun.

This is relevant to more than just serpent shields.

If a unit has a meltagun and a combi-plasma, the firer will use the meltagun first, and if it fails he will pop the combi-plasma. if it succeeds, he won't and the combi-plasma will not have fired.

If a unit has a flamer and assault guns, they will choose to fire the flamer first. if it's super-effective, they may elect not to fire their assault guns so they do not fail the charge.

If a waveserpent does not get around to firing the serpent shield, it didn't fire the serpent shield.